Vatican calling for Boycott of Da Vinci Code

[SieSie]

Well, Dr. Schuller really is a doctor (not a medical one, obviously,) dunno about Van Impe, lol. I wouldn't really put them in the same category, although Dr. Schuller has had his share of controversy. But the Van Impe's etc. are really in a class to themselves, lol. Early today, for some odd reason, Ernest Angely's name popped into my head! But yes, they could be a thread all by themselves!

Hi, DK! I've heard the name of Jack Van Impe back when I was in high school, but I can't recall anything that happened to him to cause controversy - can you refresh my memory, please? He's not one of the ones who got caught in a sex scandal (like Jim Baker?) is he?

 

[cappuccina]

...nutz (Van Impe, that is...)...Here is a link to his website, and you'll see what I mean...Not to mention his rather "ballsy" fundraising activities...


http://www.jvim.com/

 

[Dark Knight]

I just talked with a Protestant friend of mine who said she has been talking to people who believe that DVC is real, so Brown's early attempts to push it as being fact-based has had an unfortunate effect.

At the end of it all, even if he didn't say it was fact-based and that it was 100% fiction from the get-go, Jesus Christ is not someone you should write fiction about. He is the Son of God to billions of people and the Savior of the world. Fictionalizing his life is sacreligious, and that is why people called for a boycott. And the RC Church did so due to what MANY non-Catholics even noted was a very hateful, bigoted (and inaccurate) portrayal of it (not just Opus Dei.)

Anyone who compares it to writing about a mere mortal just doesn't get it, and probably never will, because their pespective is far different.

 

[narlacat]

Well DK, all I can say is at least Dan Brown gave Jesus a life lol, according to you guys he did absolutely nothing until he was in his mid 30's!!!!!!!
Must have just sat around twiddling his thumbs

 

[narlacat]

No, it is not.

Righty'o then, silly me

 

[Dark Knight]

Well DK, all I can say is at least Dan Brown gave Jesus a life lol, according to you guys he did absolutely nothing until he was in his mid 30's!!!!!!!
Must have just sat around twiddling his thumbs

The humanity part of Him grew and developed just like any other human being, in preparation for His public ministry, which began a bit early at the request of His mother Mary (wedding feast of Cana.) His public ministry was from age 30-33. There are some stories in the Gospels of him earlier, such as around age 12 or so, when he was believed lost but was in the Temple teaching the religious leaders! I have often theorized that the famous "Q" source for the Gospels was the Blessed Virgin Mary herself, as only she could have known some of the things written about Him.

ETA: Mel Gibson also "gave Him a life" via flashbacks in The Passion of the Christ. The Infancy gospels were not included in the NT due to their not being in wide use by early Christians and their claims being very dubious.

 

[narlacat]

The humanity part of him?
Geez DK, you have more of a way with words than I do

What about the other 20 years or so, what was he doing for those two decades do you think?
Maybe he got lost again

 

[Dark Knight]

The humanity part of him?
Geez DK, you have more of a way with words than I do

What about the other 20 years or so, what was he doing for those two decades do you think?
Maybe he got lost again

Yes, as opposed to the divinity of Him. True God and True Man as we say during Mass. That was also represented by the blood and water that flowed from His side at the crucifixion.

 

[cappuccina]

....Jesus was a great philosopher, teacher, someone who was able to put forth an alternative moral system in a very barbaric world and was quietly charismatic enough that people followed his teachings and continue to do so to this day. That's great, however, there is no scientific evidence that he is anything more or less than what I have stated above. Now, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but, in fact, there is no actual evidence in the true sense of the word.

The Bible, being an allegorical work designed to teach men a moral code of ethics, speaks to resurrection, etc. as a way of imbuing continued "life" to Jesus ideals...just as anyone we revere continues to "live on" through us when they die because we practice somehting that they have taught us...."passing the torch" so to speak. Certainly Jesus' ideals of compassion, humanity and tolerance were welcomed by many in a time of Roman barbarism...

DK, truly, anyone who does not realize that Dan Brown's work is fiction is either uneducated, bigoted, afraid, or some combination of the three. In the United States, which, I keep reminding you is not a theocracy, anyone can write whatever fictional account they wish to of Jesus or anyone else. I would suggest that you live in Iran if you wish to be in a country where what is written about religious, political, and historical figures is very tightly controlled.

Personally, I do not think that Jesus would be offended by a ficitional exploration of his life; he would probably remind you that he had to put up with much more difficult things than that! Nor is it historically farfetched or fantastic to think that Jesus might have been married, and/or had a child. It would have been more unusual for a young single guy at the time NOT to have been married, or in some type of family situation, actually...

The DVC is a story, it's a mystery story and a fictional thriller. Again, as I;ve stated before, you don't see US givernment employees going on a nut because Robert Ludlum villifies some of them is his mystery works of fiction...

(Now, as I said on the Anne Coulter thread in the PP, I am really, really interested in how and why you think that this woman upholds Christian ideals...)

 

[concernedperson]

That is a very thoughtful post. I will reflect on this for awhile. Thanks.

 

[TisHerself]

....Jesus was a great philosopher, teacher, someone who was able to put forth an alternative moral system in a very barbaric world and was quietly charismatic enough that people followed his teachings and continue to do so to this day. That's great, however, there is no scientific evidence that he is anything more or less than what I have stated above. Now, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but, in fact, there is no actual evidence in the true sense of the word.

The Bible, being an allegorical work designed to teach men a moral code of ethics, speaks to resurrection, etc. as a way of imbuing continued "life" to Jesus ideals...just as anyone we revere continues to "live on" through us when they die because we practice somehting that they have taught us...."passing the torch" so to speak. Certainly Jesus' ideals of compassion, humanity and tolerance were welcomed by many in a time of Roman barbarism...

DK, truly, anyone who does not realize that Dan Brown's work is fiction is either uneducated, bigoted, afraid, or some combination of the three. In the United States, which, I keep reminding you is not a theocracy, anyone can write whatever fictional account they wish to of Jesus or anyone else. I would suggest that you live in Iran if you wish to be in a country where what is written about religious, political, and historical figures is very tightly controlled.

Personally, I do not think that Jesus would be offended by a ficitional exploration of his life; he would probably remind you that he had to put up with much more difficult things than that! Nor is it historically farfetched or fantastic to think that Jesus might have been married, and/or had a child. It would have been more unusual for a young single guy at the time NOT to have been married, or in some type of family situation, actually...

The DVC is a story, it's a mystery story and a fictional thriller. Again, as I;ve stated before, you don't see US givernment employees going on a nut because Robert Ludlum villifies some of them is his mystery works of fiction...

(Now, as I said on the Anne Coulter thread in the PP, I am really, really interested in how and why you think that this woman upholds Christian ideals...)

Reading your post I am struck by how authoritive and superior sounding it is, as if you are speaking to a form of lower intelligence.
Your perception of who Jesus was is just, that your perception, and you can think that he would not be offended by a fictional exploration of his life, how remarkably generous of you.
For Christians who believe In The Divinity of Jesus yes it is impossible to believe he was not married and had a child. I beleive that has been said on here before, we do not believe that was his purpose on earth. So no actually we do not believe it would have been more usual for him to be in a family situation.
No matter how many times you say that, it will not change the fact that, that is what we believe........ Now you can believe different that is fine, but you cannot talk down to others because they are defending their beliefs.

Us government workers going on a nut because Robert Ludlum villifies them V Some Christians/Catholics being upset about the DVC and the way it Portrayed their Beliefs in Jesus and their Faith. I find the comparison highly insulting, there is no camparison........ and just for the record I was not for boycotting the DVC.. But that was insulting.

 

[BarnGoddess]

Interesting observation!!!!!!!!!

While I was still in Miami-Ft. Lauderdale, I lived with a Catholic roommate. Now, I'm Episcopalian (courtesy of Henry VIII), so our liturgy was very similar. The exception is no Pope, just Bishops (Episcopal means having bishops). On a Christmas Eve we dicided to go to Christmas Eve midnight services in our respective religions. He dropped me off at an Episcopal Church where we lived and he went on the the Catholic Church he regularly attended. After the services, we related our experiences. Very interesting indeed.......

I should have been suspicious immediately when the sign in front of the church mentioned "mass" instead of "service". As I entered, there was Holy Water available. I have never encountered that in any Episcopal Church. Then they had a "Mary's Altar". I had never seen that either. There were votive candles in front of that altar. The priest used incense during the service. Very rare in the Episcopal Church. After the service, I found out he had been a Roman Catholic priest, but left the church to marry. He attended our seminary to learn our liturgy and became an Episcopal priest. He fit in with the parish he served as that's exactly what they wanted.

Now we switch to my roommate. He said they had an new assistant priest in his parish. He was a retired Episcopal priest and was married........He spoke with several women in his church and they seemed to really like him. He was able to relate as he was married and he said the women liked his wife. He told me there was a shortage of Catholic priests and were accepting married clergy from the Episcopal Church

I was amazed at the switch in our respective churches. Can any Roman Catholics comment?

Also, I live now in a small community, actually between two small communities. Each town has an very active Catholic Church. Because of the shortage of priests, one serves both parishes. Now there is also a Traditional Catholic Church in the area. They bought the Lutheran Church and parsonage when the Lutherans built a new church. The practice the Latin Mass. I know from talking with some parishoners, Rome does not really recognize them. Any comments on this?

DK or Maral?

 

[Maral]

Interesting observation!!!!!!!!!

While I was still in Miami-Ft. Lauderdale, I lived with a Catholic roommate. Now, I'm Episcopalian (courtesy of Henry VIII), so our liturgy was very similar. The exception is no Pope, just Bishops (Episcopal means having bishops). On a Christmas Eve we dicided to go to Christmas Eve midnight services in our respective religions. He dropped me off at an Episcopal Church where we lived and he went on the the Catholic Church he regularly attended. After the services, we related our experiences. Very interesting indeed.......

I should have been suspicious immediately when the sign in front of the church mentioned "mass" instead of "service". As I entered, there was Holy Water available. I have never encountered that in any Episcopal Church. Then they had a "Mary's Altar". I had never seen that either. There were votive candles in front of that altar. The priest used incense during the service. Very rare in the Episcopal Church. After the service, I found out he had been a Roman Catholic priest, but left the church to marry. He attended our seminary to learn our liturgy and became an Episcopal priest. He fit in with the parish he served as that's exactly what they wanted.

Now we switch to my roommate. He said they had an new assistant priest in his parish. He was a retired Episcopal priest and was married........He spoke with several women in his church and they seemed to really like him. He was able to relate as he was married and he said the women liked his wife. He told me there was a shortage of Catholic priests and were accepting married clergy from the Episcopal Church

I was amazed at the switch in our respective churches. Can any Roman Catholics comment?

Also, I live now in a small community, actually between two small communities. Each town has an very active Catholic Church. Because of the shortage of priests, one serves both parishes. Now there is also a Traditional Catholic Church in the area. They bought the Lutheran Church and parsonage when the Lutherans built a new church. The practice the Latin Mass. I know from talking with some parishoners, Rome does not really recognize them. Any comments on this?

DK or Maral?

Hi BarnGoddess,
The Church you attended in Miami was probably what is called a High-Episcopal or High-Anglican Chruch. They call their sevices Masses, have confessionals, etc., and it is hard to see a difference between them and Roman Catholic Churches.
The last time I was in New York City, I was walking past a beautiful cathedral on a Sunday morning and the sign with the Mass schedule said there was one at 11:00AM. It was just a couple of minutes past 11:00, so I decided to go in there instead of the Church I usually go to when in New York. I was more than half way through the Mass before I realized I was in an Episcopal Church, not a Catholic Church.

The Catholic Church does make exceptions to the celibacy vow to married Protestant clergy and Orthodox priests that convert to Catholicism. As far as Protestant clergy go, though, I've only seen it done with Episcopalian priests, not, like say a converted Methodist clergyman. That's not to say it doesn't happen, I've just never seen or heard of it.

Rome considers Traditional Catholics schismatic. There are other groups also like Old Catholics who are considered schismatic. These groups broke away after Vatican II because they refused to accept the changes made at that time.

I know there is a shortage of Catholic Priests these days, but the parish I belonged to in Denver had 4 priests. You would think one of them could have gone over to the eastern plains so one priest didn't have to serve two parishes.

 

[BhamMama]

Dark Knight and others who are so nicely explaining things, I just wanted to say thank you. I, for one, happen to be learning alot. Though I've read alot and talked to many about other religions I never strayed into the Catholic doctrine much because I didn't have anyone very close to me that I felt comfortable enough to ask questions of.

I see that Jews have been brought up again in relation to the so called boycott of Passions of the Christ. Maybe some missed what I said earlier so I'll repost what I said then.

<snip>The Jewish faith differs from many religions in that its central authority is not vested in any person or group but rather in its writings and traditions. Not one person has the right, nor the need, to tell all of us how to practice our faith, that includes Rabbi's!<snip>

There are so many different sects of Judaism (including a few groups that believe in Jesus that call themselves Jewish as well but aren't!) that they can't even agree on what parts to leave in or out of a prayer, that's why NONE of them make blanket statements for the others. The few calls for a boycott that I read about were from individual synagogues, and maybe a watch dog group or two but not the whole group of us. You can't make wide assumptions about the faith of all based on the voices of a few.

Thats the way I see what's happening in the Catholic Church. Not every one will see the movie or read the book but that in no way reflects on those who choose not to for personal faith based reasons.

For those of us who choose to do things based only on faith, it's for a reason...most of them are taught in most religions.....anything that takes your eye off of the one true lesson (and that can vary widely even in your own religion as it's a personal thing between you and your G-d) is a distraction from reaching your goal. If that brings us comfort, why do so many nay sayers care? It really doesn't concern you. Your faith in whatever isn't being questioned, your rights aren't being infringed upon, no one is asking you to change your views. I feel that is a kind of intolerance and it's very bewildering.

 

[Dark Knight]

Dark Knight and others who are so nicely explaining things, I just wanted to say thank you. I, for one, happen to be learning alot. Though I've read alot and talked to many about other religions I never strayed into the Catholic doctrine much because I didn't have anyone very close to me that I felt comfortable enough to ask questions of.

I see that Jews have been brought up again in relation to the so called boycott of Passions of the Christ. Maybe some missed what I said earlier so I'll repost what I said then.

<snip>The Jewish faith differs from many religions in that its central authority is not vested in any person or group but rather in its writings and traditions. Not one person has the right, nor the need, to tell all of us how to practice our faith, that includes Rabbi's!<snip>

There are so many different sects of Judaism (including a few groups that believe in Jesus that call themselves Jewish as well but aren't!) that they can't even agree on what parts to leave in or out of a prayer, that's why NONE of them make blanket statements for the others. The few calls for a boycott that I read about were from individual synagogues, and maybe a watch dog group or two but not the whole group of us. You can't make wide assumptions about the faith of all based on the voices of a few.

Thats the way I see what's happening in the Catholic Church. Not every one will see the movie or read the book but that in no way reflects on those who choose not to for personal faith based reasons.

For those of us who choose to do things based only on faith, it's for a reason...most of them are taught in most religions.....anything that takes your eye off of the one true lesson (and that can vary widely even in your own religion as it's a personal thing between you and your G-d) is a distraction from reaching your goal. If that brings us comfort, why do so many nay sayers care? It really doesn't concern you. Your faith in whatever isn't being questioned, your rights aren't being infringed upon, no one is asking you to change your views. I feel that is a kind of intolerance and it's very bewildering.

There is really not much I can add to this post! Well said!!!!! And, you're welcome. I'm always happy to answer any questions anyone has about our faith.

 

[Dark Knight]

Hi BarnGoddess,
The Church you attended in Miami was probably what is called a High-Episcopal or High-Anglican Chruch. They call their sevices Masses, have confessionals, etc., and it is hard to see a difference between them and Roman Catholic Churches.
The last time I was in New York City, I was walking past a beautiful cathedral on a Sunday morning and the sign with the Mass schedule said there was one at 11:00AM. It was just a couple of minutes past 11:00, so I decided to go in there instead of the Church I usually go to when in New York. I was more than half way through the Mass before I realized I was in an Episcopal Church, not a Catholic Church.

The Catholic Church does make exceptions to the celibacy vow to married Protestant clergy and Orthodox priests that convert to Catholicism. As far as Protestant clergy go, though, I've only seen it done with Episcopalian priests, not, like say a converted Methodist clergyman. That's not to say it doesn't happen, I've just never seen or heard of it.

Rome considers Traditional Catholics schismatic. There are other groups also like Old Catholics who are considered schismatic. These groups broke away after Vatican II because they refused to accept the changes made at that time.

I know there is a shortage of Catholic Priests these days, but the parish I belonged to in Denver had 4 priests. You would think one of them could have gone over to the eastern plains so one priest didn't have to serve two parishes.

I'm going to assume that "Traditional Catholics" are also what are known as Orthodox Catholics, who are also schismatic and anti-Vatican 2. Mel Gibson's dad is one. Dunno if Mel is.

 

[Dark Knight]

When you can show me where I ever said she "upheld Christian ideals" I will answer you.

 

[Dark Knight]

Hi, DK! I've heard the name of Jack Van Impe back when I was in high school, but I can't recall anything that happened to him to cause controversy - can you refresh my memory, please? He's not one of the ones who got caught in a sex scandal (like Jim Baker?) is he?

I don't recall anything specifically, but he is rather, um, 'eccentric" if I remember right, lol! Just seems like a stereotypical televangelist, but it has been awhile since I watched any of his shows.

 

[Dark Knight]

I know there is a shortage of Catholic Priests these days, but the parish I belonged to in Denver had 4 priests. You would think one of them could have gone over to the eastern plains so one priest didn't have to serve two parishes.

I imagine they are assigned based on population, including Catholic population. A parish in a major city like Denver might need 4 priests to carry out duties beyond the Mass, such as extreme unction, visiting the sick and homebound, etc.

 

[TisHerself]

Dark Knight and others who are so nicely explaining things, I just wanted to say thank you. I, for one, happen to be learning alot. Though I've read alot and talked to many about other religions I never strayed into the Catholic doctrine much because I didn't have anyone very close to me that I felt comfortable enough to ask questions of.

I see that Jews have been brought up again in relation to the so called boycott of Passions of the Christ. Maybe some missed what I said earlier so I'll repost what I said then.

<snip>The Jewish faith differs from many religions in that its central authority is not vested in any person or group but rather in its writings and traditions. Not one person has the right, nor the need, to tell all of us how to practice our faith, that includes Rabbi's!<snip>

There are so many different sects of Judaism (including a few groups that believe in Jesus that call themselves Jewish as well but aren't!) that they can't even agree on what parts to leave in or out of a prayer, that's why NONE of them make blanket statements for the others. The few calls for a boycott that I read about were from individual synagogues, and maybe a watch dog group or two but not the whole group of us. You can't make wide assumptions about the faith of all based on the voices of a few.

Thats the way I see what's happening in the Catholic Church. Not every one will see the movie or read the book but that in no way reflects on those who choose not to for personal faith based reasons.

For those of us who choose to do things based only on faith, it's for a reason...most of them are taught in most religions.....anything that takes your eye off of the one true lesson (and that can vary widely even in your own religion as it's a personal thing between you and your G-d) is a distraction from reaching your goal. If that brings us comfort, why do so many nay sayers care? It really doesn't concern you. Your faith in whatever isn't being questioned, your rights aren't being infringed upon, no one is asking you to change your views. I feel that is a kind of intolerance and it's very bewildering.

What an excellent post!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you.