Verdict: GUILTY for both Millard and Smich of 1st degree murder #2

[NoodlesMcgee]

You are not going to win an appeal based on the jury coming to a verdict you disagree with.

 

[Miranda16]

BBM
So if I understand you correctly, you convinced yourself it was premeditated and there was little evidence to be found in premeditation in the case of TB. I'm sorry to say but both those comments indicate there is room for doubt.

I don't think so. If someone sets out to murder a stranger but decides which particular stranger to murder on a whim, it is still first degree murder. The maniac in Orlando set out to murder but picked victims at the scene.

 

[Miranda16]

Oh possibly the fact that MS character was brought up about a million times and DM's character wasn't even touched upon. As we found out after trial, although MS may have been a "petty drug dealer", Millard, by his friends accounts was into hard drugs and trying to get them to smuggle them for him. Just off the top of my head. That toolbox didn't contain weed.

DM's poor character surfaced quite a bit: multiple women, buying multiple types of drugs, theft, helping MS write rap lyrics (according to MS), frivolous lifestyle. Maybe in other ways that I can't recall.

 

[Miranda16]

Lame? According to many this was damning evidence. You mean the very lyrics people spent hours dissecting and linking to dates. Stating it was autobiographical? That he was rapping about actual events.

I would say that DM character evidence pales in comparison by trying to link rap lyrics to the actual murder by trying to give them meaning. Using the words "Merk", in connection to a murder trial. MM talking about MS hitting her in her testimony. BD stating he had an angry side. His past criminal record. The testimony is endless. Showing his rap video in court I'd say was one of the biggest ones.

If you don't think that character assassination cant taint a jury, you're mistaken. Justice Goodman stated himself in the charge to the jury to ignore it. But the fact is, it was allowed as evidence to begin with. Ignore it, however opinions are formed based on a person's character.

Not sure how many times I've heard the words, low life, DM druggie side kick, etc etc. I guess we'll see. TD obviously sees grounds for an appeal. I'm not a lawyer, strictly JMO

TD almost automatically will see grounds for an appeal (he'll make more money after all).
I think that the WS posters who presented the best arguments of premeditation by MS did not place any weight on the rap lyrics.
Personally I think there were some 'coincidences" in the lyrics such as mentioning a .380, but I don't take them as evidence either. The verdict would be the same even if MS was not an 'artist'
I don't think the lyrics came up in the crown's close, did they?

 

[canadiangirl]

TD almost automatically will see grounds for an appeal (he'll make more money after all).
I think that the WS posters who presented the best arguments of premeditation by MS did not place any weight on the rap lyrics.
Personally I think there were some 'coincidences" in the lyrics such as mentioning a .380, but I don't take them as evidence either. The verdict would be the same even if MS was not an 'artist'

I don't just think rap lyrics, although I think it is part of it. Allowing character assassination for one party and not the other is biased. We never heard DM was a hard drug user of coke, steroids and dabbling in heroine. We never heard he asked MM to wear the pregnancy belly and smuggle drugs for him. One can also assume that was the reason for the secret compartment in the trailer SS was building. We never heard the toolbox was full of hard drugs, not weed. We never heard how the gun would be a dirty girl. It changes my opinion on motive. I no longer think TB truck was stolen for the next Baja trip.. But for a drug smuggling business to support the $100k a month he desperately needed. MOO

 

[Miranda16]

I don't just think rap lyrics, although I think it is part of it. Allowing character assassination for one party and not the other is biased. We never heard DM was a hard drug user of coke, steroids and dabbling in heroine. We never heard he asked MM to wear the pregnancy belly and smuggle drugs for him. One can also assume that was the reason for the secret compartment in the trailer SS was building. We never heard the toolbox was full of hard drugs, not weed. We never heard how the gun would be a dirty girl. It changes my opinion on motive. I no longer think TB truck was stolen for the next Baja trip.. But for a drug smuggling business to support the $100k a month he desperately needed. MOO

I see what you're saying regarding character, though DM's poor character at least in part was revealed, and there is likely more on MS (and DM) that wasn't revealed (e.g. any additional evidence held back for the LB trial)

 

[marymcd]

As for the rap lyrics, now those could be damning to him. We had a lot of discussions here about rap lyrics being used in trials. Not just about MS'S but other rappers as well. There were a few cases where the artist was convicted solely on his lyrics. I don't believe that is the case here though. The few questions asked seemed to be based around MS and nothing to do with his horrible rap video. IMO, the media also blew that up as well. I had a hard time watching his videos without laughing. However IMO, the text only version was more damning but wasn't what made me think MS was guilty. The Crown shouldn't have played his recorded version.

Someone may have already pointed this out. My apologies if they already have. The crown didn't play or even refer to Smich's rap music other than possibly what was contained in texts. It was Sachak who played them during cross and Pillay who spoke about them in closing. The judge's charge repeatedly instructed the jury to specifically ignore among other things, references to rap.

 

[DMB]

Someone may have already pointed this out. My apologies if they already have. The crown didn't play or even refer to Smich's rap music other than possibly what was contained in texts. It was Sachak who played them during cross and Pillay who spoke about them in closing. The judge's charge repeatedly instructed the jury to specifically ignore among other things, references to rap.

Then why were they allowed into evidence to begin with, doesn't make sense. If they were important enough to be mentioned in the Judge's address it should have been obvious, prior to them being presented and should have been withheld at that point. I don't think it is enough to say, after the fact, "ignore" anything worth mentioning in the address should have been originally held back such as text's between IIsho & Milllard (just one example) Again, IMHO

 

[marymcd]

DM's poor character surfaced quite a bit: multiple women, buying multiple types of drugs, theft, helping MS write rap lyrics (according to MS), frivolous lifestyle. Maybe in other ways that I can't recall.

I agree. Millard's role and character was extremely clear very early on and so I don't think there was much discussion surrounding those issues. Agreement on Millard seemed swift and nearly unanimous. Still there are some or possibly many that feel Smich had a more equal role to Millard. The Smich side of things was pretty quiet early on, and his role less clear leading to a lot more discussion and people arriving at their own conclusions in different, but still legitimate ways.

By the way, does anyone know why Arturo (sp) aka Arthur never testified? Is it solely because they are facing charges together on the graffiti thing?

 

[canadiangirl]

If the truck theft and murder were not premeditated, how should we interpret the fact that Millard and Smich contacted two other people regarding a type of vehicle they wanted to steal before stealing Tim's truck and incinerating him?

One they couldn't get a hold of so it never happened. I suppose we can assume they never knew where that truck was located. The second truck with Igor well we all know what happened there. MS was sick. Didn't happen accordingly to both MS and DM because of that. However I truly don't think it was Igor's demeanor that stopped that truck heist, a gun and 2 men beats a human any day. MS testified there was GPS in Igor's truck. Regardless of size. TB was to be a scoping mission. So exactly.. If nothing happened in the others, why was this different?

 

[leafs_fan93]

Then why were they allowed into evidence to begin with, doesn't make sense. If they were important enough to be mentioned in the Judge's address it should have been obvious, prior to them being presented and should have been withheld at that point. I don't think it is enough to say, after the fact, "ignore" anything worth mentioning in the address should have been originally held back such as text's between IIsho & Milllard (just one example) Again, IMHO

https://www.defencelaw.com/appeals.html

This was an interesting read regarding appeals. Unders reasons for appeal, it lists judge improperly admits evidence. Question for the legal minds, is this when the evidence itself shouldn't have been entered at all, or that his procedure was incorrect? If the former, perhaps the rap video could fall under that. You can't have a jury watch that then tell them to disregard it and don't factor it into your decision

 

[canadiangirl]

Further to this, it was said MS took Oxy on the test drive. What was DM on? Would this have supported the DM was a lunatic and celebratory? Lifting TB into the incinerator being under the influence of hard drugs? The side effects of coke and steroids support just that IMO.

But the jury thought choir boy DM did what? Weed? Even that was unclear to me. I am not sure we heard of any drug use for DM. Just MS.

 

[leafs_fan93]

Well I for one have enjoyed your posts and find myself in agreement with some of what you say. I've been a member for years and I think every case I have followed there is always some disagreement between posters. I have been on both sides of the fence, with the majority and in the minority. For the most part people can be respectful. I'm not sure why so many want to attack your opinion here as I find it quite reasonable. I think sometimes we as posters get so wrapped up and emotionally invested that we forget we are still on the outside looking in. When one is so emotionally invested that they find it nessassary to attack every post of those not in total agreement, go around commenting on CN personal social media pages, etc. it becomes an unhealthy infatuation where one sometimes cannot control there emotions. Again any disagreement with the majority and you are automatically labeled a supporter of MS. I have not seen any posts that suggest MS should be set free for goodness sake. Anyways all IMO and just wanted you to know you are supported.

If we all agreed, these threads would never reach 60+ pages like they do!

 

[SnooperDuper]

Everyone that suggests that MS does not deserve the first degree murder charge is missing the big picture, IMO.

DM and MS are enemies now, sure, but at the time of the murder they were best buds who texted their love to each other.

There is just no way that MS did not know what was going down.

 

[THXGuru]

Respectfully, if I get you right, after all the evidence that you saw presented at trial related to the murder of Tim Bosma before, during and after, you still think that Smich should be given the maximum sentence for Acccesory After the Fact-----You recognize of course that that is the same charge that Christina Noudga is facing for her involvement afterwards in hiding the truck, gun, DVR and whatever she did that required black nitrile gloves..all clearly done after the fact.

You do realize that in order to arrive ar your suggestion of AFFT, a jury would have to completely ignore every shred of evidence having to do with premeditation and planning that preceded this murder......a jury would have to ignore all of the evidence from the time that cell phones showed Smich and Millard travelling closer and closer to Tim Bosma's and everything in between until the two accused headed for the farm after the stop at the Bobcat dealership ??? Do you realize that by choosing AATF you are suggesting that Smich was only responsible for his actions from what----maybe the time they got to the barn and he opened the gate....hooked up the incinerator...etc etc etc....and then put in pretty much just a few more hours of cleanup that evening and over the next few days???

I guess I could understand if you were trying to distinguish between 1st Degree--pre-meditated and planned versus 1st Degree--aiding & abetting. I guess I could understand if you were thinking that 2nd Degree would have been more appropriate......but AATF??? That was never going to happen...not now and not in anyone's wildest dreams. It was not even a possibility available to the jury. The stories that the jury never heard will continue streaming out in the days to come and perhaps that will give you a new perspective on Smich's conviction. And then there is the LB trial coming up in early 2017 and the murder charges against Smich.
In the meanwhile, there are many of us who have spent days, weeks and months on WS reading, studying and learning and burning the candle at both ends trying to come to a clearer understanding of ever facet of this case and trial. There has been intense dialogue and discussion at times but in the end we have been united in wanting to see truth and justice. Now we have earned the right to join in the celebration with the Bosma family and army in what can only be seen as a victory and answer to prayer.
The accused have had almost 5 months of our undivided attention <modsnip>.

Well said.

Oh possibly the fact that MS character was brought up about a million times and DM's character wasn't even touched upon. As we found out after trial, although MS may have been a "petty drug dealer", Millard, by his friends accounts was into hard drugs and trying to get them to smuggle them for him. Just off the top of my head. That toolbox didn't contain weed.

Once MS decided to testify, a lot of bad character stuff came come out.

 

[marymcd]

Then why were they allowed into evidence to begin with, doesn't make sense. If they were important enough to be mentioned in the Judge's address it should have been obvious, prior to them being presented and should have been withheld at that point. I don't think it is enough to say, after the fact, "ignore" anything worth mentioning in the address should have been originally held back such as text's between IIsho & Milllard (just one example) Again, IMHO

Someone with more trial experience than me might want to correct me or add to this, but I think that issues concerning character and lifestyle are allowable but only as part of the whole and are not to be used as evidence to arrive at a verdict. That's how I understand it. Why the judge deemed other items as inadmissible, I really wouldn't even hazard to guess. I read somewhere, I think a news article, that sometimes if one lawyer agrees to allow something damning to the other lawyer's client to be suppressed, that lawyer seeks agreement to have something damning to his own client suppressed in return.

 

[Miranda16]

Further to this, it was said MS took Oxy on the test drive. What was DM on? Would this have supported the DM was a lunatic and celebratory? Lifting TB into the incinerator being under the influence of hard drugs? The side effects of coke and steroids support just that IMO.

But the jury thought choir boy DM did what? Weed? Even that was unclear to me. I am not sure we heard of any drug use for DM. Just MS.

MS said that both he and DM did oxy the night before IT. The difference was that MS also drank which is apparently a bad combo.

You mentioned before that IT's truck had GPS according to MS. I hadn't heard that before but could have missed it.

 

[NoodlesMcgee]

Someone may have already pointed this out. My apologies if they already have. The crown didn't play or even refer to Smich's rap music other than possibly what was contained in texts. It was Sachak who played them during cross and Pillay who spoke about them in closing. The judge's charge repeatedly instructed the jury to specifically ignore among other things, references to rap.

This is a good point. Most of the bad character stuff for both of them were brought in by the various defenses. The crown didn't bring up stuff about MS hitting MM or the rap. That was DM's defense. You have to allow DM to have a defense and his was that MS was a violent guy so they were allowed to present that evidence in defense of DM.

Perhaps the most damning evidence the crown was allowed was the text messages about other missions and DM buying a gun.

 

[otto]

I never said the theft wasn't premeditated. Planning to murder and planning to steal are completely different.

Why did Smich and Millard take a gun to a test drive?

 

[paris_paris]

If we all agreed, these threads would never reach 60+ pages like they do!

And I wouldn't have had to skip the last 6 pages, even after the Mod warning.