Verdict: GUILTY for both Millard and Smich of 1st degree murder #2

[otto]

But let's not forget how the very last still of the video which people interpreted made MS look menacing was left on the screen and published in the media. It's bound to help form or confirm someone's opinion.

I saw the rap video on the news, but did not notice anything menacing about it. He looks like a scrawny, unhealthy, dull man in all photos and video.

 

[marymcd]

Which one took a gun to a test drive? Has this been determined? Did the other know? All unanswered questions.

It's not possible to know everything, but we do know one thing. It was MS who buried(?) the gun(s). And he might have refuted that if he hadn't known that MM and others knew.

 

[deugirtni]

maybe timing? Iisho text closer to the LB murder so it was inadmissible, whereas the MS rap was modified after the TB murder?

Most of that text conversation between DM and MW *was* allowed as evidence, but DM's comment about her coming back 'dirty' was not allowed, so the reasoning couldn't have been about dates.

 

[Miranda16]

Conjecture is necessary when the crown attempts to understand, and present, how a murder occurred. The crown can only work with the facts of the case, and does not speculate that there were five guns if there is evidence of one. The crown does not speculate on anything. They present the facts that are available, and thread that evidence together in a logical framework that results in an understanding of what took place. The jury is asked to make a conclusion or inference based on evidence. That is the nature of the circumstantial case, and pretty much every murder case is based on circumstantial evidence. Drawing a conclusion based on facts in evidence is not the same as speculating about what may not be in evidence.

Right and that's what I said in a more abbreviated way. I said that the scenario ("drawing a conclusion' in your words) needs to be based on the facts in evidence.

 

[redwing7225]

IMO,
If ms was innocent and simply "there", my thought would be that at the first chance he had to go to LE, he would've went and explained all and offered all. Keep in mind the gun was NOT in his possession at this time.
IF he was just the clean up guy, imo, LE may have been satisfied with aatf.
The rap lyrics mean nothing to me, the phone battery dying means nothing to me. However, I do find it odd that no SIM cards were found for ms's phones.
Again, maybe he is just an innocent dupe who was at the wrong place at the wrong time BUT, he had the ability to make the "wrong" "right" yet ms carried on with life as though nothing had happened...IIRC, didn't get paranoid until he felt as though he was going to go down with DM.

 

[canadiangirl]

I saw the rap video on the news, but did not notice anything menacing about it. He looks like a scrawny, unhealthy, dull man in all photos and video.

This very part of the clip was left on the screen for the jury to see and published in the media to support the rap lyrics. While driving the point home over and over again how these lyrics are linked to this murder.

“You talk about killing people, you’re charged with first degree murder, right?”, Sachak asked.

http://www.am980.ca/2016/05/17/mark-smichs-violent-rap-video-played-during-tim-bosma-murder-trial/

And thennnnn. The jury was told to disregard them.

 

[Miranda16]

Most of that text conversation between DM and MW *was* allowed as evidence, but DM's comment about her coming back 'dirty' was not allowed, so the reasoning couldn't have been about dates.

You could be correct. I suggested the date originally thinking that the disallowed text was more strongly connected to the earlier LB crime. And that it had to be protected (if that's the correct word) for use in the later case (because we're in the somewhat awkward situation of having a trial for a later crime occurring before the trial for the earlier crime)

 

[XiolaBlueX]

Ok well Pillay then. Point being, the rap lyrics on their own were kinda of damning. MS rapping them on video down played them...he looked and sounded silly!

I appreciate your point of view CJ, it's interesting to note, for me it sounded ridiculous in person with Sachays style, and how he kept reading and repeating certain phrases loud and ad nauseum, in his particular style, and much too dramatically IMO (it was sort of backfiring, IMO, so to speak, and making it that he was making too much out of not much.)
but when they played MS clip, MSs state of mind and general affect looked so different in video than up on the stand, that I got a much different glimpse into the MS of 3 years ago, and the MS as he presents these days. (Other than just being under the influence of substances) and it is one of the pieces that coloured his character for me more than much other circumstantial/indirect evidence.
So not the actual rapping exactly, but the manner of his delivery and looks, lifestyle he looked like he was glamorizing, his affect of being tough/gangsta. I could imagine the MS in the video being ok with a loaded gun in his hand, or robbing somebody, among other things too, but it's just conjecture on my part anyway. MOO

 

[otto]

IMO you are bang on. Follower was perhaps the wrong word in that I felt he was manipulated just as you stated.

I see Millard described as a "psychopath" (not a standard term in modern psychology), and Smich as "not a psychopath". Is that the reason why Smich should not be held responsible for is full participation in the abduction and murder of a 32 year old family man?

 

[marymcd]

But we were allowed to hear MS suggested stripping to his gf in the theft of a truck and murder of the owner. So what exactly is the difference?

I see your point. The Millard was involved with had absolutely no connection whatsoever with this crime. MS suggesting MM become a stripper has no bearing on the crime itself, only on the relationship between MS and MM which does merit being admissable.

 

[Sillybilly]

I thought On-Star was only for GM vehicles? I have a Dodge and it wasn't an option that I know of. Anybody know?

Apparently OnStar became standard on Dodge vehicles in 2008. Tim's truck was a 2007 (so no OnStar), but I'm not sure we know the year of IT's truck.

 

[otto]

This very part of the clip was left on the screen for the jury to see and published in the media to support the rap lyrics. While driving the point home over and over again how these lyrics are linked to this murder.

“You talk about killing people, you’re charged with first degree murder, right?”, Sachak asked.

http://www.am980.ca/2016/05/17/mark-smichs-violent-rap-video-played-during-tim-bosma-murder-trial/

And thennnnn. The jury was told to disregard them.

When I saw that screenshot, I assumed he was confused about how to work the computer - he looks stunned and dopey.

I like this from your link:

"In one awkward moment, Sachak mixed up a timeline while asking about a firearm, prompting a jab from a smirking Smich.

[Smich]: “It must be one of your brain cramps again,” he said. “You’re probably under a lot of stress.”

The courtroom gasped and the judge shut down the exchange." (link)

Clearly Smich enjoys intimidation when he perceives a weakness in someone. Why do people not view this man as also suffering from antisocial personality disorder?

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-of-1st-degree-murder&p=12640358#post12640358

Redwing, I am curious to know if you have anymore thoughts regarding CN's 1165.19?

Possibility of a reference to a Robert Browning poem?

Just also wanted to mention, and knowing it is extremely far-fetched on my part, if the numbers are some kind of code, and they are repositioned to 1119.65, translating to Nov. 19 1965, that is the date "the lights went out" ... New York City in a blackout. (Quite the news in its day [emoji4])

ETA: Please disregard ... The date Nov. 19 1965 was the date Life magazine published the article about "the lights went out" ... Actual date of the blackout was Nov. 9 1965. Please accept my apologies.

MOO


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[canadiangirl]

When I saw that screenshot, I assumed he was confused about how to work the computer - he looks stunned and dopey.

I like this from your link:

"In one awkward moment, Sachak mixed up a timeline while asking about a firearm, prompting a jab from a smirking Smich.

[Smich]: “It must be one of your brain cramps again,” he said. “You’re probably under a lot of stress.”

The courtroom gasped and the judge shut down the exchange." (link)

Clearly Smich enjoys intimidation when he perceives a weakness in someone. Why do people not view this man as also suffering from antisocial personality disorder?

Do you actually think he was trying to intimidate a lawyer? More like mocking if you're asking for my interpretation. But you're entitled to your opinion.

 

[Myvice]

I thought Smirch wanted all of his past to come in to give him a reason for not talking??

I started out feeling sorry for him because I thought he was being taken advantage of. I always feel sorry for the underdog and feel bad for the parents and what conflicting emotions they must have to deal with. But I lost that feeling when he testified. He came across to me as self assured and defiant. He added nothing to the evidence that hadn't been previously presented, rather using his time to present himself in a better light. Among the things he said, one that stood out to me was that he may have petted the dog (Bosma's), he wasn't sure, but if there was a dog he would have petted it. That actually made me think he DID have the gun and wanted to mislead by coming up with something innocuous to make the jury believe he had shown his hands while standing there. He went on to comment that DM had hit or kicked his dog for going to the bathroom in the house. That was big to me because I couldn't understand the reasoning for all the focus that was placed on Pedo. I still don't. Was it just to soften the horrendousness of the crime?

Sorry, rambling.

 

[JuneBug67]

Apparently OnStar became standard on Dodge vehicles in 2008. Tim's truck was a 2007 (so no OnStar), but I'm not sure we know the year of IT's truck.

OnStar remains a GM product but an equivalent service under different branding did become available for Dodge trucks at some point. Memory wants to tell me IT's truck was a 2010?

 

[redwing7225]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-of-1st-degree-murder&p=12640358#post12640358

Redwing, I am curious to know if you have anymore thoughts regarding CN's 1165.19?

Possibility of a reference to a Robert Browning poem?

Just also wanted to mention, and knowing it is extremely far-fetched on my part, if the numbers are some kind of code, and they are repositioned to 1119.65, translating to Nov. 19 1965, that is the date "the lights went out" ... New York City in a blackout. (Quite the news in its day [emoji4])

MOO


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I will spend more time on this "code" however, this is what I did find this morning, more of a poem/writing. I was never really good at "reading between the lines"

 

[marymcd]

You could be correct. I suggested the date originally thinking that the disallowed text was more strongly connected to the earlier LB crime. And that it had to be protected (if that's the correct word) for use in the later case (because we're in the somewhat awkward situation of having a trial for a later crime occurring before the trial for the earlier crime)

I read that elsewhere too. I read it in Susan Clairmont tweets in answer to a question, but I know I read it somewhere else as well. Maybe in her news article.

 

[otto]

Do you actually think he was trying to intimidate a lawyer? More like mocking if you're asking for my interpretation. But you're entitled to your opinion.

Mocking, ridiculing, those work as well. Either way, clearly Smich has a complete disrespect for another person. Rather than view Millard as suffering antisocial personality disorder, and Smich as a sad victim, why not interpret Smich's mocking attitude as an example of antisocial personality disorder.

 

[otto]

I thought Smirch wanted all of his past to come in to give him a reason for not talking??

I started out feeling sorry for him because I thought he was being taken advantage of. I always feel sorry for the underdog and feel bad for the parents and what conflicting emotions they must have to deal with. But I lost that feeling when he testified. He came across to me as self assured and defiant. He added nothing to the evidence that hadn't been previously presented, rather using his time to present himself in a better light. Among the things he said, one that stood out to me was that he may have petted the dog (Bosma's), he wasn't sure, but if there was a dog he would have petted it. That actually made me think he DID have the gun and wanted to mislead by coming up with something innocuous to make the jury believe he had shown his hands while standing there. He went on to comment that DM had hit or kicked his dog for going to the bathroom in the house. That was big to me because I couldn't understand the reasoning for all the focus that was placed on Pedo. I still don't. Was it just to soften the horrendousness of the crime?

Sorry, rambling.

It sounds like Smich wants others believe that Millard is guilty, Millard is the mastermind, Millard mistreats animals, and Smich is does not mistreat animals, therefore Smich is not a murderer. That's similar to saying: that person has red hair, and that person is a genius. I don't have red hair, therefore I'm not a genius. It's absurd reasoning, but not surprising from someone with antisocial personality disorder who intends to manipulate with illogical nonsense.