Verdict Watch Discussion Thread

[Arnie M]

@susanclairmont Just wondering why the second gun was considered inadmissible evidence? Great job reporting.

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 1m1 minute ago
Only evidence involving .380 allowed because it matches shell in #Bosma truck.

Makes it sound like the second gun was something other than a .380 .

 

[Kamille]

@susanclairmont Is there no chance that the jury members knew something about the previous accusations prior to the start of trial?

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 4m4 minutes ago
Several of the jurors knew about the other cases. That's not the test, however. Test is can they set that aside.

 

[Typhoo1961]

.

This is about Smich ... a lot of people (including me) started out with the impression he was just a lazy pothead looking for an easy way thru life but when he took the stand I was surprised how quick witted he was and even Pillay could not make a dent in him.

Makes me think he was a lot more deeply involved in the planning than just a helper-driver. I noticed the CBC reporters mentioned the same thing on their live chat

Anyone else get the impression that MS is a heck of a lot smarter that he pretends to be ??

In not so many words, I certainly do!!

 

[Claroon]

.

This is about Smich ... a lot of people (including me) started out with the impression he was just a lazy pothead looking for an easy way thru life but when he took the stand I was surprised how quick witted he was and even Pillay could not make a dent in him.

Makes me think he was a lot more deeply involved in the planning than just a helper-driver. I noticed the CBC reporters mentioned the same thing on their live chat

Anyone else get the impression that MS is a heck of a lot smarter that he pretends to be ??

Well, street-smart anyhow. He at least tried to delete his messages, and none of his prints were found so, yeah.

 

[deugirtni]

Well said. I saw lots of MSs testimony. IMO, I would see him be asked questions (in cross) that he couldn't really answer because he wasn't allowed to. Eg. I saw him start answering and look at the judge before continuing to make sure he could proceed. During a recess IIRC he was asking if he could comment on IIRC something to do with gun(s). I felt like at times "his hands were tied" ps Please excuse the wording

To me, I didn't look at it at all the way LH described. However, she may be referring to a time that I missed. However, I have a feeling it is moreso a difference of perception. Speculation : what LH may have looked at as cunning, I looked at as being detail oriented and/or precise (in certain statements) especially when Sawchuk was cross examining him and IMO asking somewhat inappropriate and nonsensical questions repeatedly, MS seemed detail oriented and careful- kept answers brief as I'm sure he was coached to

I'm not sure if any of you also followed the Audrey Gleave case? At the time when things were happening in the news, I was actually appalled at LH's TV reporting on the 6 o'clock news. I think I lost a lot of respect for her at that time. It was VERY sensationalistic, VERY accusatory, VERY defaming - all toward the 'homeless man' who had been arrested for her murder. I wasn't sure how a reporter would even get away with saying the things that she did. I thought I was listening to a US news channel.. j/k. She even mentioned that it had always been felt that the same man was to blame for burning down the downtown church.. even though the man has never been charged, and to my knowledge, he has never been publicly named as a suspect in that case, etc. It was however, a rumor going around. The homeless man was ultimately released when DNA results came back.

Last night when I saw her news report, I was wondering if it might be more of the same. She seems to be the only one to have mentioned DM's screaming when he found out that MS would be testifying. (From memory I thought she had said he was screaming when being taken back out to his paddy wagon to return to his jail cell, on the day when TD had stated that MS would be putting up a defence, and I can't find the news report online to have another look at it. - does anyone have a youtube link or something? I can't seem to make the video at the CH link play for me.)

 

[Webulls]

.

This is about Smich ... a lot of people (including me) started out with the impression he was just a lazy pothead looking for an easy way thru life but when he took the stand I was surprised how quick witted he was and even Pillay could not make a dent in him.

Makes me think he was a lot more deeply involved in the planning than just a helper-driver. I noticed the CBC reporters mentioned the same thing on their live chat

Anyone else get the impression that MS is a heck of a lot smarter that he pretends to be ??

I wouldn't say smarter. Evil more like it.

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

I'm not sure why my work blocked the Calgary Sun website. I guess I should be wary about my usage considering it recently includes watching the MS and MWJ videos. Those weren't blocked, but probably should have been.

Mrs.T, you just changed your post but I was going to ask XiolaBlueX to weigh in. I thought she attended Day 1 of the judges charge when the juror asked to be excused. Also, no reporter said why. I believe it was reported that the judge didn't give a reason except that it was for personal reasons that they wished not to be disclosed. I could see why if this was the case. JMO.

Sorry about all this confusion ... Please accept my apology. The post I deleted said that my Mom had just called to tell me that the last juror who left the Bosma jury was a medium who said she had a vision of Tim's murder, and could no longer be impartial because it had disturbed her so much.

Mom said she heard about it on the Stafford show 640 AM this morning. I had posted it to ask if anyone else had heard that info, and that I was off to search for confirmation.

As it turns out, as other kind WSers posted with the Calgary Sun story, Mom was confusing trials ... It wasn't a Bosma trial juror, but a juror from a trial in Calgary!!

I deleted my OP because I didn't want to spread misinformation. I shouldn't have posted it without confirmation. I hope I have learned a lesson [emoji4] By the way, I phoned Mom back to explain the circumstances, lol!!




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[don_quixote]

.

This is about Smich ... a lot of people (including me) started out with the impression he was just a lazy pothead looking for an easy way thru life but when he took the stand I was surprised how quick witted he was and even Pillay could not make a dent in him.

Makes me think he was a lot more deeply involved in the planning than just a helper-driver. I noticed the CBC reporters mentioned the same thing on their live chat

Anyone else get the impression that MS is a heck of a lot smarter that he pretends to be ??

Yes, I think he's very capable. Don't ask me why, because I learned not to explain that part . But his testimony was just a confirmation of what I thought about him. Whether he was saying truth or not, that I don't know.

 

[Tealgrove]

.

This is about Smich ... a lot of people (including me) started out with the impression he was just a lazy pothead looking for an easy way thru life but when he took the stand I was surprised how quick witted he was and even Pillay could not make a dent in him.

Makes me think he was a lot more deeply involved in the planning than just a helper-driver. I noticed the CBC reporters mentioned the same thing on their live chat

Anyone else get the impression that MS is a heck of a lot smarter that he pretends to be ??

Oh yeah....but the other thing is....he's also a better criminal than DM. If I'm not mistaken one of the texts says that when they steal the truck it has to be planned right. It was MS that said that not DM. DM is a dreamer with pie in the sky ideals. MS is a doer. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the whole Eliminator idea what his and not DM's. MOO

 

[JuneBug67]

.

This is about Smich ... a lot of people (including me) started out with the impression he was just a lazy pothead looking for an easy way thru life but when he took the stand I was surprised how quick witted he was and even Pillay could not make a dent in him.

Makes me think he was a lot more deeply involved in the planning than just a helper-driver. I noticed the CBC reporters mentioned the same thing on their live chat

Anyone else get the impression that MS is a heck of a lot smarter that he pretends to be ??

BBM. I think it's more that he was smarter, more articulate and more composed than people expected him to be. A more stubborn and tough person on the stand than anticipated. That's what I got from the CBC chat. I don't know that anybody is suggesting he is now pretending to be dumb.

 

[JuneBug67]

I'm not sure if any of you also followed the Audrey Gleave case? At the time when things were happening in the news, I was actually appalled at LH's TV reporting on the 6 o'clock news. I think I lost a lot of respect for her at that time. It was VERY sensationalistic, VERY accusatory, VERY defaming - all toward the 'homeless man' who had been arrested for her murder. I wasn't sure how a reporter would even get away with saying the things that she did. I thought I was listening to a US news channel.. j/k. She even mentioned that it had always been felt that the same man was to blame for burning down the downtown church.. even though the man has never been charged, and to my knowledge, he has never been publicly named as a suspect in that case, etc. It was however, a rumor going around. The homeless man was ultimately released when DNA results came back.

Last night when I saw her news report, I was wondering if it might be more of the same. She seems to be the only one to have mentioned DM's screaming when he found out that MS would be testifying. (From memory I thought she had said he was screaming when being taken back out to his paddy wagon to return to his jail cell, on the day when TD had stated that MS would be putting up a defence, and I can't find the news report online to have another look at it. - does anyone have a youtube link or something? I can't seem to make the video at the CH link play for me.)

We are super lucky to have the CBC. People complain about the public funding, but what you get is what we have: a news organization that is not under the same pressure to lower the bar for ratings and fiscal survival as media has become democratized over the last couple of decades. Many of the rest are just competing for who can get down farthest in the mud.

 

[puppyraiser]

I realize there is still a publication ban in effect until after the LB and WM trials, so I'm curious why that final text between Isho and DM was allowed to be printed already if it was so prejudicial against DM now. I would have thought that particular text thread would be used in the LB trial to show DM planned to use gun to murder (saying gun would be a 'dirty girl' by the time he returned it).

As for Smich- I think three years ago he was high and drunk most of the time and his brain probably wasn't functioning at full potential but he was still 'smart' enough to cover his tracks and hide/delete/avoid evidence that affected him directly. Not finishing high school back then didn't mean he wasn't able to learn or "dumb" for lack of better word- he just didn't care. He's had three years to sober up, gain some knowledge and refine his story. He's street smart, cunning and quite capable of fooling people just like DM has. My friend's sons knew him- they didn't have great things to say about him.

 

[mozzagirl]

I realize there is still a publication ban in effect until after the LB and WM trials, so I'm curious why that final text between Isho and DM was allowed to be printed already if it was so prejudicial against DM now. I would have thought that particular text thread would be used in the LB trial to show DM planned to use gun to murder (saying gun would be a 'dirty girl' by the time he returned it).

As for Smich- I think three years ago he was high and drunk most of the time and his brain probably wasn't functioning at full potential but he was still 'smart' enough to cover his tracks and hide/delete/avoid evidence that affected him directly. Not finishing high school back then didn't mean he wasn't able to learn or "dumb" for lack of better word- he just didn't care. He's had three years to sober up, gain some knowledge and refine his story. He's street smart, cunning and quite capable of fooling people just like DM has. My friend's sons knew him- they didn't have great things to say about him.

My thoughts is that LE and the Crown must have information that LB will killed by a different means than gunshot.
IMO.

 

[mozzagirl]

Does anyone know what happens if the jury can come to a unanimous verdict about one accused but not the other? Does that other person get a new separate trial or do both?

 

[brightii]

I think some people made assumptions - incorrectly - about MS and his lack of intelligence based on his appearance and the language he used in his texts. I actually agree with CHCH reporter, Lisa Hefpner's characterization of MS being cunning.

I think back to a couple of examples of his cunning when I recall MS's remarks about DM being abusive to his own dog, hitting Pedo when the dog soiled the bed. I think that remark was quite cunning as MS is not stupid and I think he hoped that many jurors may interpret such a statement as DM being cruel to animals which could indicate that DM is also capable of being cruel to humans. Also MS referred to DM as "twisted" at one point, IIRC. Did he know what was in DM's uncle RB's statement to LE? Perhaps MS did know, as I would think it's all part of the disclosure. Perhaps that is why MS chose to describe DM with that particularly loaded word since he was aware of the legal arguments that disallowed RB from repeating his sentiments about DM by describing DM as a "sick, twisted prick".

I may be in the minority but I quite admire LH's reporting and find her credible and balanced overall. JMO.

All MOO.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

@susanclairmont Why did Goodman remove the end of the gun-buy text conversation? Seems relevant evidence considering it was the murder weapo

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 6m6 minutes ago
Which murder though? That's the problem.

We don't know the full content of the texts, but the reporters likely do. Susan Clairmont just gave a very clear hint.

 

[andreww]

My thoughts is that LE and the Crown must have information that LB will killed by a different means than gunshot.
IMO.

Or that exchange with Isho took place after LBs death? Different gun.

 

[DeaconBrodie]

Does anyone know what happens if the jury can come to a unanimous verdict about one accused but not the other? Does that other person get a new separate trial or do both?

The verdict against the one accused stands. The accused who the jury hung on may get a new trial or may not - that is up to the Crown to decide.

 

[XiolaBlueX]

I'm not sure why my work blocked the Calgary Sun website. I guess I should be wary about my usage considering it recently includes watching the MS and MWJ videos. Those weren't blocked, but probably should have been.

Mrs.T, you just changed your post but I was going to ask XiolaBlueX to weigh in. I thought she attended Day 1 of the judges charge when the juror asked to be excused. Also, no reporter said why. I believe it was reported that the judge didn't give a reason except that it was for personal reasons that they wished not to be disclosed. I could see why if this was the case. JMO.

Hi Dateline. Yes, nothing was said about the reasoning. First thing in the morning the judge said he had received a letter from a juror that the juror wished to keep a private matter. The judge said he would not be reading it out loud because of this. Everybody in the courtroom including the lawyers looked perplexed and surprised. The judge passed the letter to the crown who read it silently, then it got passed to the other lawyers. I could only ballpark in hindsight that it took about 15-20 secs on avg to read.
The judge then asked for any submissions from the Crown. Crown said That they submit to dismiss (or discharge) the juror. *I don't have the specific verbiage written* Both defence lawyers said no thx (no submissions)

The jury then came in, the judge announced he had a received a letter from a juror but juror wished it to remain private and off the record. He then took a few moments and thanked her for her dedication over the last several months and discharged her completely.
It was hard to tell what the other jurors knew or didn't know, they didn't look particularly shocked or upset. I remember leaning to get a better look and I saw the juror squeezing through to leave and there were no hugs or tears, etc that I saw whatsoever.IMO

 

[mozzagirl]

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 40m40 minutes ago
Susan Clairmont Retweeted
I have a longer story for tomorrow...@AD_Humphreys, @AdamCarterCBC and I spent our weekend sorting thru pub bans.



@susanclairmont are different media taking different approaches to the pub ban? National Post article had by far the most details.


1 retweet1 like





So it looks like we will be learning more tomorrow of what the jury didn't hear.