Verdict Watch

[PolkSaladAnnie]

Thanks, Boodles - It's nice to hear someone else say what I feel about them, too.

Maybe I'm naive, too, but ITA with what you said. And yes, def attys do not ask their clients, "Did you do it?" and I'm sure this slimeball didn't admit any such thing to them, so they could ask The Question in the courtroom. I do think that their putting him on the stand was a "What have we got to lose" rally try.

And yes, they didn't get up on the table & shout, "This man is innocent and you should free him from his imprisonment -- today -- and let him live as he should, a free man." I didn't hear none o' dat in their closing. Seems to me, these guys anyway, not all def attys, would walk away from a guilty verdict still with pride and go on to the next case.

Well said, Born. Exactly how I feel... Remember Geragos, among many other notable def atties? Just walked clean away ... Not all of them, as you rightly note. But ... many of them do. Especially in cases where the writing on the wall was with tarmac-line size markers and ... permanent "ink" ... warning travelers of the real route to justice! They do their job and then just continue on that same justice highway and say "bye-bye my-way".

As gritguy wrote on the Guilty Poll Madeleine created ... when the gavel falls, that same selfish rage will reignite in JLY. And he'll forever blame Michelle for his messed up life ... pitiful little measly ... specimen. Even IF ... if ... the jury hangs, or there is a mistrial ... or a successful appeal, whatver ... this case has made tens of thousands *far more aware* of his guilt, his selfishness, his actions: denial, duplicity, deception and a dreadful deadly end.

 

[otto]

Well said, Born. Exactly how I feel... Remember Geragos, among many other notable def atties? Just walked clean away ... Not all of them, as you rightly note. But ... many of them do. Especially in cases where the writing on the wall was with tarmac-line size markers and ... permanent "ink" ... warning travelers of the real route to justice! They do their job and then just continue on that same justice highway and say "bye-bye my-way".

As gritguy wrote on the Guilty Poll Madeleine created ... when the gavel falls, that same selfish rage will reignite in JLY. And he'll forever blame Michelle for his messed up life ... pitiful little measly ... specimen. Even IF ... if ... the jury hangs, or there is a mistrial ... or a successful appeal, whatver ... this case has made tens of thousands *far more aware* of his guilt, his selfishness, his actions: denial, duplicity, deception and a dreadful deadly end.

I'm inclined to think he'll be a blip on Dateline and 48 Hours Mystery, back to back with his buddy Brad, and then they'll fade into the backwaters of NC.

 

[Luna24]

I finally got to watch the prosecutor's closing arguments and while BH may have stammered a bit at the beginning, she did really well covering the points in a nice summary as did the other prosecutor. I think the jury is being thorough and I'm willing to be there are only 1 or 2 undecided's at this point..I predict a guilty verdict by Tuesday.

 

[Just the Fax]

I thought David Saacks did an excellent job in his closing. Becky Holt did 'ok'. Like you said Luna, she had pauses and stammered around with reading the dates on the time-line....was not as fluid and clear as DS.

 

[Just the Fax]

I thought this was a bit 'crafty' by DS.
We know he reentered the hotel at 6:15AM because the camera was pushed up about that time. He then went to his room with the propped door to change clothes, get his receipt and luggage. DS then made a big point to say he was never seen on video Friday AM anywhere in the hotel (trying to impeach JY saying he was down eating breakfast). Personally, I think JLY was downstairs in his business attire eating breakfast around 6:45 AM. The desk camera does not cover the dining area and all are on a 14 second sequence delay. I think he walked out the front door (would have been captured in west hall) within the 14 second gap and was simply missed. The jury was left to think he was never back in the hotel after midnight.

 

[borndem]

I'm inclined to think he'll be a blip on Dateline and 48 Hours Mystery, back to back with his buddy Brad, and then they'll fade into the backwaters of NC.

I tend to agree, Otto. JY (whether or not convicted, unless he goes free & commits some other horrid crime -- which he might) and BC will fade in the regular public's mind because, sadly, they will be replaced with other spouse- or child-killers "of the month." Certainly JY, BC, et al, will never go away for the relatives and friends of those so horribly affected by those horrific crimes. Sometimes the heart just cannot be repaired....

There are just too damn many of these type crimes: Selfish, greedy, impatient, sociopathic, or just downright hate-filled & cruel, or all of those.

Right now, we are in the middle of JY, BC is still fresh in our minds, Hare not long past, we have ICA in Florida, Abaroa coming up on 08/01/11, Williford/Taft in the wings (my personal passion), Zahra Baker coming up, and how many did I forget??? And will we hear about another today or tomorrow?

Well, I've done it again..... rant over...for now :banghead:

 

[gracielee]

I'm inclined to think he'll be a blip on Dateline and 48 Hours Mystery, back to back with his buddy Brad, and then they'll fade into the backwaters of NC.

Perhaps after Raven's trial, one of the programs might do a 'triple play' on Raleigh/Durham wife killers?

 

[gracielee]

I tend to agree, Otto. JY (whether or not convicted, unless he goes free & commits some other horrid crime -- which he might) and BC will fade in the regular public's mind because, sadly, they will be replaced with other spouse- or child-killers "of the month." Certainly JY, BC, et al, will never go away for the relatives and friends of those so horribly affected by those horrific crimes. Sometimes the heart just cannot be repaired....

There are just too damn many of these type crimes: Selfish, greedy, impatient, sociopathic, or just downright hate-filled & cruel, or all of those.

Right now, we are in the middle of JY, BC is still fresh in our minds, Hare not long past, we have ICA in Florida, Abaroa coming up on 08/01/11, Williford/Taft in the wings (my personal passion), Zahra Baker coming up, and how many did I forget??? And will we hear about another today or tomorrow?

Well, I've done it again..... rant over...for now :banghead:

The Zahra Baker case troubles me. How is anyone to be held accountable for this poor childs murder without any DNA, videos? Is there even a cause and/or manner of death listed? I've forgotten on that detail?

 

[No Coincidence]

Hi friends! Can't wait for the verdict. I have been following along with the thread and wanted to note something... WHO IN HIS RIGHT MIND would struggle to get a tree branch when there was a newspaper, waterbottle in his hand and rocks literally scattered by the dozens at his feet. That was just plain ignorant to say that: reason 156,365 that JY is GUILTY. Also, why would he leave his room without the key. He wouldn't have known the door shuts awkwardly/doesn't latch until after he was trying to leave, right? So he would have had his key with him; regardless of whether or not he decided to not latch the door (with a computer and personal belongings unguarded inside). He would have been better off to say he propped it with the safety feature thingy (on most hotel doors). He is out of control. Whatever was said on that night phonecall with MY prompted Jason to drive back and psychotically murder his wife. If it was 100 % predetermined he would have had the right gas in gerry cans in the garage, never intending to stop. His anger at Gracie suggests something wasn't "in the plan". If I was traveling on a business trip I would DEFINITELY park in a weird, distant, place, go in and out of my room 5 times, grab twigs to prop a door, stay at a hotel not nearest my destination, throw away all my clothes, call my mistress, and lie on the stand. Wouldn't you? <<<Bahaha, sarcasm.>>> :waitasec:

 

[Luna24]

NC - I had a lot of the same thoughts, especially about the hotel door and propping it open...

I was thinking about another thing today -- the two jewelry drawers. I would think most robbers would just take the jewelry, not the two drawers..it would make more sense that was JY because if they weren't noticeably absent, and he knew he wouldn't be going back to itemize what was missing for the police, that perhaps nobody would notice any jewelry was taken.

I don't recall that MY had that much valuable jewelry which make sense at her age, etc. and her most valued was probably her wedding ring/engagement ring which he was sure to take and knew that would be noticeable...

just thinking out loud...

 

[Zamboni]

^You are right I think. Someone who wanted her jewelry would either dump out the drawers into a bag and leave the drawers themselves discarded on the floor or take the entire box.

And the twig story is just absurd. I can't imagine why the jury would even consider anything in the testimony of someone who was such a confirmed liar in the first place.

The garbage bags he used for any clean up were in the kitchen. In the crime scene photos he left the roll of them askew on the counter, and the kitchen trash cupboard was left pulled out. MY would not have left it that way. Looked like she was a good housekeeper from the photos taken throughout the home.

 

[gracielee]

NC - I had a lot of the same thoughts, especially about the hotel door and propping it open...

I was thinking about another thing today -- the two jewelry drawers. I would think most robbers would just take the jewelry, not the two drawers..it would make more sense that was JY because if they weren't noticeably absent, and he knew he wouldn't be going back to itemize what was missing for the police, that perhaps nobody would notice any jewelry was taken.

I don't recall that MY had that much valuable jewelry which make sense at her age, etc. and her most valued was probably her wedding ring/engagement ring which he was sure to take and knew that would be noticeable...

just thinking out loud...

Much like his obsession with 'bathroom habits/peeing/color of Cas poop, etc', he also appeared to have one with wedding/engagement rings. He ripped the ring off his ex-fiance's finger during their fight, swallowed the other girls wedding rings, and Michelle's wedding rings were the only jewelry missing.

 

[No Coincidence]

NC - I had a lot of the same thoughts, especially about the hotel door and propping it open...

I was thinking about another thing today -- the two jewelry drawers. I would think most robbers would just take the jewelry, not the two drawers..it would make more sense that was JY because if they weren't noticeably absent, and he knew he wouldn't be going back to itemize what was missing for the police, that perhaps nobody would notice any jewelry was taken.

I don't recall that MY had that much valuable jewelry which make sense at her age, etc. and her most valued was probably her wedding ring/engagement ring which he was sure to take and knew that would be noticeable...

just thinking out loud...

Here is my perception of the jewelry box: he realized that he wanted to stage a robbery after the fact, and he jumped the gun and grabbed the knob on the drawer before he realized he has blood on his hands/fingerprints (depends on your idea of the gloves). He freaked out and took the drawers because he was afraid of leaving some evidence behind. I'm not sure how big these drawers are; however, has anyone considered that he may have used them as the murder weapon? Its the only thing missing or out of place... Just a thought...

 

[fran]

Fran, I noticed, too. The look on Collins' face was worried. And the other two (and I really dislike lumping them together!) were as you said, arched forward and not relaxed -- even Mr. Best All Around (I know I am beating that appellation well beyond its death, but heck) looks uncomfortable.

But I wonder, Fran, since their part is essentially done -- barring the bizarre -- how Collins & Klink really feel. They certainly should feel that they did their duty as officers of the court -- they did a heyell of a job for that sick jerk, so they should sleep well tonight. Do they like JY? Do they think he is indeed guilty? Do they think in their hearts that he should be convicted -- I would really like to know -- but know I never will.

You've been there & done that 'way more often than I have, along with JTF , Madeline and raisincharlie, etc., etc. What are your thoughts, if you have time & would like to share? Thanks.

Personally, I feel the pros did a very good job of proving their case. Having said that, I guess it's going to all go down to, "Does the jury believe the pros or were they swayed by the def?" You have to admit, it was brilliant,.... well, only because it was the ONLY option of putting up any real defense, to put the defendent on the stand. But, do the jury believe him?

I'm sure any attorney, either def or pros, will tell you they never pretend to even be able to read a jury. They are human, after all, and very unpredictible. I'm sure the pros feels confident, but that does NOT mean they convinced the jury. The only thing that matters is the verdict. I'm sure there's a few def attorneys as well as pros attorneys that are having difficulty sleeping this weekend, worrying about the verdict for this trial, which most likely will come at the earlier part of next week.

I hope the jury, when trying to determine the def truthfulness, think about the questions asked by the def and the pros, and remember the incidents that the def denied or couldn't remember. About the only items he disputed, were items NOT directly proven in court by actual testimony. It's too bad that ex-fiance didn't testify to those additional incidents, or did she?

Anyway, recall how the def was furiously writing during much of the pros witness testimonies. Like the pros said, it took him 1693 days from the murder of his wife, to tell his story.

Not normal. Not normal at all. UNLESS they're GUILTY!

JMHO
fran

 

[Madeleine74]

When I heard he swallowed CAS's wedding ring I felt that was his statement on commitment, and how he was trying to destroy it, at least symbolically. It was the first thing he went for in that fight with his ex-fiance, it was the last thing he went for after murdering his wife, MY, and he found an excuse, right in front of his wife at dinner, to get ahold of CAS's wedding ring and choke down the symbol of her commitment to her husband back in MT.

A psychologist would have a field day with those linked behaviors. I am glad BH brought it up because it helps point to the identity of the killer when you examine and analyze what he DID take from the scene, not just what was left behind.

JLY wanted to destroy marriage: his own, CAS's and GC's (trying to woo her back in that email).

 

[borndem]

The Zahra Baker case troubles me. How is anyone to be held accountable for this poor childs murder without any DNA, videos? Is there even a cause and/or manner of death listed? I've forgotten on that detail?

glee - IIRC -- I haven't been on the Z.Baker thread/news reports in a while, tho I do check 'em from time to time -- like little C.Anthony, all they (LEO's/investigators/M.E.) have to go on is a pile of bones and a too-small prosthetic leg of a young girl (you will recall that ZB's s/mom & dad never took her to be fitted with a properly-fitting prosthesis since little girls do get bigger, or to have her checked by an oncologist -- near-criminal, IMO, in and of themselves).

There may well be a little more evidence in the ZB case since they nearly tore apart the rental home where ZB was living at the time of her "disappearance." Her cancer could have returned and her stepmother may have been worried about being charged with child abuse and/or negligent homicide; EBaker could have beaten and/or starved her to death; ZB could have died from sepsis due to a gangrenous stump as a result of an improperly sized prosthesis -- who knows? Same with CA -- all the ME could say was "Homicide, unknown cause" (or something similar). And the authorities will never get a confession from either the mother or s/mother. :maddening:

I agree, glee, the ZB death will be tuff to prosecute. And obviously, the ICA prosecution is now nearly a comedy series, IMO.

I got a bit carried away again...

 

[borndem]

Much like his obsession with 'bathroom habits/peeing/color of Cas poop, etc', he also appeared to have one with wedding/engagement rings. He ripped the ring off his ex-fiance's finger during their fight, swallowed the other girls wedding rings, and Michelle's wedding rings were the only jewelry missing.

BBM - Add to that, glee, that 1) JY knew the value of the rings since he had (as far as we know) paid for them and 2) I think he considered these rings his -- he didn't want her to either "take them with her" when she was buried or for her family to have them, not even his daughter.

JMO

 

[Just the Fax]

 

[Just the Fax]

 

[borndem]

:lol:


JTF - As Sheriff Andy Taylor said to Deppitty Barnie Fife:

"You beat everything, you know that?"

Thanks! :clap:

ps: JY does seem to like the dark tops with a horizontal stripe, doesn't he?!