Verdict Watch

[otto]

Yes, MEGA-contradiction. The 'other case' participants should be VERY thankful they were not tried in North Carolina.

Then again, if Cooper and Young were tried in Italy, they could be viewed as innocent because the cases are/were circumstantial and the accused/guilty did not leave their DNA on the body, had unverifiable alibis or have have injuries after the murders.

 

[otto]

From what I recall, Ryan Jenkins was on probation/parole, what ever it's called in Canada, but his background check for the program was only done in the U.S., not Canada. And I do beg to differ on the 'button pushing' that ends up in murder. IMO, someone has to be of a certain personality type for *anything* to 'end up in murder'. MOO There are plenty of 'button pushers' out there, certainly far more than those who murder as a solution, again, IMO. Saying something 'ends up in murder' because *both* pushed buttons, is like blaming the victim, isn't it? MOO

I'm not blaming any victims, but it is my observation that in the case of Nancy and Michelle, both stayed in a relationship that was over months, if not years, earlier. Both were extremely unhealthy relationships and perhaps they weren't pushing each other's buttons, but their levels of respect had deteriorated so much that the couples were clearly no longer kind to each other.

 

[gracielee]

I think it helps to put some of the generalizations in context. If people that doubt a jury verdict are tinfoil hatters when it comes to the murders of Nancy Cooper and possibly Michelle Young, but completely rational when it comes to the murder of Mereideth Kercher, I, for one, am very curious about where the lines are drawn. If circumstantial evidence, absent direct evidence between the accused and the crime scene, are good enough for spousal homicides, then why not for roommate homicides. Again, I am curious about where the lines are drawn.

Motive & History. Passion. ie: the old adage 'the emotions of love & hate'. Cooper & Young have long, volitile relationships. HUGE control issues, and were on the brink of major life changes, new baby plus divorce. Both Nancy Cooper and Michelle Young made statements only days before their deaths to the effect of 'they couldn't take it anymore'.

 

[dgfred]

I sent a couple of pms to you gals. Bring your respected opinions over to the AK thread, :seeya: there! And check out those sites if you can.

 

[dgfred]

Then again, if Cooper and Young were tried in Italy, they could be viewed as innocent because the cases are/were circumstantial and the accused/guilty did not leave their DNA on the body, had unverifiable alibis or have have injuries after the murders.

That's true pal.

 

[otto]

The prosecutors in Amandas trial did some unbelievably shady crap too. They told her she had acquired HIV and needed a list of all the people she had slept with to let them know. They then released that to the news. That got the Italian people completely against her because she looked like a tramp. She did not and does not have HIV.

But Rudy G's DNA was all over that room but hers was not. You can't selectively clean up DNA. Her boyfriends wasn't either. She is absolutely innocent. I'm more certain of her innocence than JLYs guilt.

I'm equally certain of their guilt because I don't wear tinfoil hats (ie: believe that I know better than a jury that hears all the evidence), I consider and analyze circumstantial evidence from several angles, I don't place any weight on media slant in reporting on the murder investigation and I'm well aware of investigative tactics used to collect evidence and information.

 

[otto]

Is the pros theory that he simply went into strangle her, or that he planned to knock her out and THEN strangle her? They did put a lot of emphasis on the "anatomy of a knockout" Yahoo! search.

Either way, I think he entered the house with the murder weapon (since it's never been found and nothing was obviously missing). I wouldn't be surprised if he did expect blood.

However, I don't think he had any idea it would take 30+ blows and failed strangulation to complete the deed. The thought of her suffering through that murder...which must have been prolonged...makes me shudder.

The email to the ex-fiance mentioned the car accident, so perhaps they're considering Jason's statements (maybe looking to connect the timeline) regarding "knock-out" searches.

 

[fran]

I believe the jury wants to see the ebay/mapquest printouts, to see what time they were printed? It's been a contention that he left the ebay stuff on purpose, to use as a ruse to call Meredith to the home to find the body of his dead spouse.

IMHO, he became almost desparate, when Meredith didn't respond to his first call after, what? an hour. He knew it was almost time for C to awake and he was worried about her being there by herself with a murdered M.

Anyway, IF the printout times are even close, the jury is going to side with the pros on that. There wouldn't have been a reason then, for him to grab the mapquest and not the ebay.

I HOPE the jury sees the discrepancies with the shirt photos. Isn't the neckline different?...

I believe as far as C's bathroom, they may want to see the prints of her socked covered feet and the pattern made on the wall. The pros said it was like 'spiderman' and she had taken off her own diaper and didn't put on panties. The def claims someone had to have removed the diaper and dressed her.

OTOH, IF there's LACK of paw-prints on the photos requested, that could mean the dog was enclosed somewhere in the house, which Meredith could have forgetten about in the commotion that ensued upon discovery of M's body.

Isn't it curious how he claims that same night, he used a branch to prop the door open and the nightwatchman found it propped open with a rock? What bad luck this guy has! Wonder if someone else's spouse, that also used the HI as their alibi, and their spouse was murdered that same night?

I think the email to Ms. C, the ex-fiance is part of his 'state of mind.' He said he was a cad, but he was working on making the marriage work. Yet, just before he had the two affairs, he wrote to his 'true love' and declared he'd never forgotten how much he loved her.

Yeah, he's quite a gem.:maddening:

Poor Michelle!

JMHO
fran

PS...oh, lest we forget the medicine. The def claims it's children's, which it may be, but they went even further and their last question about this product included that it caused hyper activity.................................yet the prose came back with the added possible symptom it COULD cause drowsiness! the def had to admit, 'Yes.' JMHO,fran

 

[iucpa]

Interesting note - so I went to the courthouse around 1:45 or so... Missed all the requests - the attorneys were leaving as I walked in. So I sat there for a bit as the attorneys were shuffling through papers and videos looking for the requests. I left around 2:20 or so, and while out on the street walking to my car 2 people walk by me wearing their "JUROR" tag around their neck. Completely possible that they were from another trial, but these matched exactly to what the Brad Cooper jurors wore (I was there when the verdict was read).

I just found it interesting that if they were, in fact, jurors in this case that they'd be wearing those around their necks out in public, unless perhaps they are required to do so???

 

[Prancy]

Can anyone direct me to the Stipulation from the lady that the defense offered into evidence near the close of their CIC? There were two stipulations, one was about the cost of gas at the time and the other was a statement from that lady. I can't recall her name. There was some talk she was elderly. Where can I find it?

 

[fran]

Motive & History. Passion. ie: the old adage 'the emotions of love & hate'. Cooper & Young have long, volitile relationships. HUGE control issues, and were on the brink of major life changes, new baby plus divorce. Both Nancy Cooper and Michelle Young made statements only days before their deaths to the effect of 'they couldn't take it anymore'.

They say that the most dangerous time in an abusive relationship, even if the 'abuse' has only been verbal, up to that point, is when the victim attempts to leave or get a divorce. EVERY single case I've watched on Websleuths that included the wife being killed or 'go missing,' there was, within just days of the crime, discussion or in the middle of making a permanent split between the victim and the suspect, def, POI!

There's even a couple where the divorce may have been final but there was still discussion of the 'property' of the marriage. As in the Drew Peterson case in Illinois, although the divorce was final they hadn't agreed on the financial split of the marital assets. Unfortunately, the former wife never got a chance to go to the courthouse for the final hearing.

JMHO
fran

 

[happy2binNC]

Interesting note - so I went to the courthouse around 1:45 or so... Missed all the requests - the attorneys were leaving as I walked in. So I sat there for a bit as the attorneys were shuffling through papers and videos looking for the requests. I left around 2:20 or so, and while out on the street walking to my car 2 people walk by me wearing their "JUROR" tag around their neck. Completely possible that they were from another trial, but these matched exactly to what the Brad Cooper jurors wore (I was there when the verdict was read).

I just found it interesting that if they were, in fact, jurors in this case that they'd be wearing those around their necks out in public, unless perhaps they are required to do so???

The rest of the courthouse is on vacation this week, so I think they would have to be from the JLY trial. I recall hearing JS say they would be the only trial in session this week.

 

[fran]

ok, we're back.........

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/livenow?id=8175997

 

[otto]

Motive & History. Passion. ie: the old adage 'the emotions of love & hate'. Cooper & Young have long, volitile relationships. HUGE control issues, and were on the brink of major life changes, new baby plus divorce. Both Nancy Cooper and Michelle Young made statements only days before their deaths to the effect of 'they couldn't take it anymore'.

Yes, there is abundant and clear circumstantial evidence that resulted in guilty verdicts for the Nancy Cooper and Meredith Kercher's murderers, and the same will probably occur in the Michelle Young murder.

 

[dgfred]

The nightwatchman finding a rock, instead of a stick/branch he said he used was the thing that really struck me as 'guilty as charged'. :loser:

 

[fran]

Jury filing back in............................

Reviewed requests over lunch break and can comply with most of what you asked.

Photo of cracker barrel, we can play the video and we can stop it where you want us to. However, you'll have to tell us when to stop. Mr foreman, you can speak, stop, back up, forward. that's the best we can do less, still frame. we'll play it as may times as you want. however we'll probably do that last because of some issue on software for that video. once you play it you have to replay or reboot the computer.

2nd., of him walking in hallway of HI, we can show that and we can stop that also or whole thing.

3 def clothes he was wearing during C's 3rd bday.......we have originals, so we will pass photo around.

4....crime scene photos of C's bathroom.......have 12 photos of def and show cd of state

5 HI emergency ex at distance, no such in evidence. nothing that shows......
nothing that showed the lighting outside? what you want isn't in the walk around...............if you want to see it, we can show it to you. that specific request it's opinion of attorneys we don't have that and can't comply

6 911 we have trans and you can view it but can't disc until jury room

7. labcorp report you all can get copies of to review

8. ebay and mapquest doc., we have and you can review......orig was processed and we can pass this and then the copy

9...email to gc, you can see a copy of that.

passing everything you can look at and we have to pass to you, will do that first. Then we'll go through videos etc. then you can return to jury room


request 3 two photos 103 102 pass to them and let them look

Just talk now of items being passed, etc. online you can just see the courtroom with most people there and judge at his desk. nothing much more for now. because the jury has to just look at and pass along each item. they're not allowed to talk about what they're seeing until they go back to the deliberation room...............fran

 

[gracielee]

Yes, there is abundant and clear circumstantial evidence that resulted in guilty verdicts for the Nancy Cooper and Meredith Kercher's murderers, and the same will probably occur in the Michelle Young murder.

I personally am not as clear on the 'abundant and clear circumstantial evidence' that resulted in the guilty verdict in the Kercher murder.' I am positive Rudy was there and participated in the killing, but he took a plea bargain.

 

[dgfred]

Hey gracie,
fran is going to whupp us if we keep talking about this but RG took an Italian 'fast track' trial instead of a 'full trial' like AK and RS. No plea deal. Sorry fran... no more I promise.

Bring it to the AK thread!

 

[Madeleine74]

iucpa,

Those red juror tags? I've seen other juries wear them as well. I believe that's what Wake Cty uses.

 

[happy2binNC]

The nightwatchman finding a rock, instead of a stick/branch he said he used was the thing that really struck me as 'guilty as charged'. :loser:

Yes, if he had testified that he grabbed a rock, it would have been more believable. He was trying too hard to separate himself from the evidence, IMO.