VT VT - Middlebury, 2WhtChildren(9-11/13-15)/1 WhtFem Adult(35-45), off logging Rd, May'35

[victoriarobinson642]

It sounds like Colleen Fitzpatrick/Identifinders is trying to get a usable DNA extract to do FGG on this case, per her appearance of Gray Hughes' YouTube show a few days ago.

That would be great.

 

[DSCrime]

It sounds like Colleen Fitzpatrick/Identifinders is trying to get a usable DNA extract to do FGG on this case, per her appearance of Gray Hughes' YouTube show a few days ago.

Great news. She seems to be focusing on these harder to solve, historic cold cases:

Have Scholars Finally Identified the Mysterious Somerton Man?

 

[Avram0r]

Just a thought... Could this be a maid or someone from one of the ships bringing "Home Children" from Britain to New York in 1925-1935 that decided to try and escape with two children only to be killed?

 

[heartanium]

Did a preliminary dig and here are some interesting things: <mod note: removed images of full length articles and replaced with appropriate clipping links>

Rutland Daily Herald, 1935

Middlebury Triple Murder

Clipping found in Rutland Daily Herald published in Rutland, Vermont on 5/25/1935. Middlebury Triple Murder

www.newspapers.com

VT 1935 (2)

Clipping found in Rutland Daily Herald published in Rutland, Vermont on 5/25/1935. VT 1935 (2)

www.newspapers.com

The Burlington Free Press - May 24, 1935, pg 2-3

VT 1935 (3)

Clipping found in The Burlington Free Press published in Burlington, Vermont on 5/24/1935. VT 1935 (3)

www.newspapers.com

VT, 1935 (4)

Clipping found in The Burlington Free Press published in Burlington, Vermont on 5/24/1935. VT, 1935 (4)

www.newspapers.com

In summery: The awning they were found wrapped in was made by the Gately and Sons awning company, was commonly used outside of grocery stores in Massachusetts, Vermont, and the rest of New England. The company was based out of Charlestown, Mass.

 

[heartanium]

David Lee and family

Clipping found in Transcript-Telegram published in Holyoke, Massachusetts on 12/29/1930. David Lee and family

www.newspapers.com

This family disappeared from on December 12, 1930 from Massachusets. Eventually David did turn up alive in California a year later, but his family was never found to my knowledge.

 

[subaw0067]

David Lee and family

Clipping found in Transcript-Telegram published in Holyoke, Massachusetts on 12/29/1930. David Lee and family

www.newspapers.com

This family disappeared from on December 12, 1930 from Massachusets. Eventually David did turn up alive in California a year later, but his family was never found to my knowledge.

I wonder how they determined he may have driven off a cliff or into a river. Was the vehicle not recovered? Did he say that was what he had done when he was located alive?

 

[EmiliaRT007]

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

By bringing people, information, forensic science and technology together, NamUs helps resolve cases.

www.namus.gov

Here’s today’s promised (possibly) John Doe. I will be using male pronouns since it is believed there is a high chance that he was indeed a male. This is a very old case from almost 90 years ago. However, with advancements in DNA technology I believe we can solve this case.

On May 15, 1935, a logger found the deceased along with 2 others, a white teen of uncertain gender, 13-15, and a white woman, 35-45. The child is believed to be a boy, but his gender has not been confirmed.

He was white of an uncertain gender, but most likely male. He died about 2 years prior to being found along with his companions, believed to possibly be related to the deceased, most likely his mother and older sibling. He was the youngest of the three, having been about 9-11 years old.

Due to the condition of the remains, the deceased’s hair and eye color are unknown. His body measurements are mostly unknown too. We just know he stood about 4’4” (132 cm). This is a bit short for a 10-ish year old child but this was the 1930s, with the Great Depression and the lack of access to food I’m sure that his family could have been affected and he could have had stunted growth, or also people were just shorter back then. Or he was just a small kid. The woman found with him, presumably his mother, was about 5’2” (157 cm), the same height as me. I was 4’1” (124 cm) at 10.

There were pearl buttons similar to the ones used on pajamas at the time near the body. There were also pillow feathers nearby, and a canvas awning with wheel pulleys still attached.

I think even though these remains are 90 years old they can still extract some DNA if nothing has been done to them. @othram can solve old, old cases like this one.

 

[Deleted member 306806]

This family disappeared from on December 12, 1930 from Massachusets. Eventually David did turn up alive in California a year later, but his family was never found to my knowledge.

Watershops Pond drawdown reveals submerged cars, more

The drawdown has revealed junk ranging from six partially submerged cart to an assortment of bikes, a safe, an aluminum boat and at least one pair of high heel shoes.

www.masslive.com

’David Lee’, wife, children found in car submerged in Watership Pond in the 40s.

“1941, the pond was drained to allow the installation of new piers, and workers found a car containing the bodies of David and Alicia Lee, and their three children, who had been reported missing without a trace 10 years earlier.”

 

[Alleykins]

Interesting finds about the awning. I wonder if they pursued as many stores at they could to find out if any were missing their awning, or were closed/demolished, etc.

Also, the Lee family story. How is it David Lee turned up alive a year after their disappearance, but then was later found in the submerged car with his family ten years after they went missing?

 

[EmiliaRT007]

Interesting finds about the awning. I wonder if they pursued as many stores at they could to find out if any were missing their awning, or were closed/demolished, etc.

Also, the Lee family story. How is it David Lee turned up alive a year after their disappearance, but then was later found in the submerged car with his family ten years after they went missing?

Yeah I was thinking the same. So which one is it?

 

[UnlicensedPI]

Lee was found in the vehicle for sure.

The California report:

David W Lee Reported to Be in L.A. - Newspapers.com

Clipping found in The Brattleboro Reformer published in Brattleboro, Vermont on 1/31/1931. David W Lee Reported to Be in L.A.

www.newspapers.com

"Although Lees mother and sister assert they do not know exactly where the missing veteran is located...the mother and children of the missing quintet are not far from this city, and that if Lee went to the west coast he went alone. Lee, who has been missing for the past 48 days..." [BBM]

Article about vehicle and remains being located:

https://www.newspapers.com/article/deerfield-valley-times-lee-family-found/120804935/

 

[Diavola]

Bumping for Addison County Three, unidentified for over 88 years...

 

[branmuffin]

The dentists expertise is a bit weird. He claims because the victims have perfect teeth, they must be "full blooded Jewish".
Huh?
Okay, its the 1930s, racist statements were not unheard of.. but it is still so weird. Does not make sense.
Jews come in all shapes, sizes and colors and so do their teeth....
Believe me, I know. I am Jewish.

That was my first response, too, when I read that. It seems to fall within the propaganda that was being circulated in Germany in the 1930s about physical characteristics to identify Jewish people.

But I did read this article that stated nearly two thirds of Jews are descendants from Ashkenazi Jews and most of them live in North America. Another article said there are certain illnesses that can be found in Ashkenazi Jews and one of them was Fanconi Anemia. I also read that many Jewish people are lactose intolerant and untreated lactose intolerance can create anemia. Here's some links:

Fanconi anemia in Ashkenazi Jews - PubMed

Fanconi anemia (FA) should be included among the genetic diseases that occur at high frequency in the Ashkenazi Jewish population. FA exhibits extensive genetic heterogeneity; there are currently 11 complementation groups reported, and 8 (i.e., FANCA, FANCC, FANCD1/BRCA2, FANCD2, FANCE, FANCF...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

We’re lactose intolerant, so why all the cheese?

It’s ironic that traditional Chanukah desserts include rugelach (sweet pastries made from cream-cheese dough) and sufganiyot (doughnuts) even though Jews and dairy tend not to get along – intestinally speaking. Nearly 62% of the 110 Jewish Israeli children who were part of a 1985 study were...

www.sajr.co.za

Lactose Intolerance

www.foodintol.com

One of the doctors said he believed the victims were probably from Boston, where an orthodontist could have done the expensive orthodontic work, since it was the closest large city to the dump site, but another big city is actually closer and it's traditionally had a fairly high Jewish population. Montreal.

I'm interested in the squashed bullet found within the burial site under one of the skulls. If it still had its copper jacket that means it hadn't been fired.

Also, the other items found are of interest to me, especially what appears to be the remains of an awning, along with its pulley system. I would presume that an awning during that era would most likely belong to a commercial building and would be used at street level to shade windows and entrances. Early awnings from the late 19th century used a pulley system to adjust the shade. A bit cumbersome in the inclement weather during the winter they could be taken down. If this awning material was from a commercial building like a shop, it's possible it would be taken down during the winter because of snow load and the damage it could cause. It doesn't really give us any location other than the area where the remains were found but Montreal can get lots and lots of snow in winter. Unfortunately so can Albany, NY and Boston.

ETA: kept reading and found out the awning was investigated.

 

[Alleykins]

That was my first response, too, when I read that. It seems to fall within the propaganda that was being circulated in Germany in the 1930s about physical characteristics to identify Jewish people.

But I did read this article that stated nearly two thirds of Jews are descendants from Ashkenazi Jews and most of them live in North America. Another article said there are certain illnesses that can be found in Ashkenazi Jews and one of them was Fanconi Anemia. I also read that many Jewish people are lactose intolerant and untreated lactose intolerance can create anemia. Here's some links:

Fanconi anemia in Ashkenazi Jews - PubMed

Fanconi anemia (FA) should be included among the genetic diseases that occur at high frequency in the Ashkenazi Jewish population. FA exhibits extensive genetic heterogeneity; there are currently 11 complementation groups reported, and 8 (i.e., FANCA, FANCC, FANCD1/BRCA2, FANCD2, FANCE, FANCF...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

We’re lactose intolerant, so why all the cheese?

It’s ironic that traditional Chanukah desserts include rugelach (sweet pastries made from cream-cheese dough) and sufganiyot (doughnuts) even though Jews and dairy tend not to get along – intestinally speaking. Nearly 62% of the 110 Jewish Israeli children who were part of a 1985 study were...

www.sajr.co.za

Lactose Intolerance

www.foodintol.com

One of the doctors said he believed the victims were probably from Boston, where an orthodontist could have done the expensive orthodontic work, since it was the closest large city to the dump site, but another big city is actually closer and it's traditionally had a fairly high Jewish population. Montreal.

I'm interested in the squashed bullet found within the burial site under one of the skulls. If it still had its copper jacket that means it hadn't been fired.

Also, the other items found are of interest to me, especially what appears to be the remains of an awning, along with its pulley system. I would presume that an awning during that era would most likely belong to a commercial building and would be used at street level to shade windows and entrances. Early awnings from the late 19th century used a pulley system to adjust the shade. A bit cumbersome in the inclement weather during the winter they could be taken down. If this awning material was from a commercial building like a shop, it's possible it would be taken down during the winter because of snow load and the damage it could cause. It doesn't really give us any location other than the area where the remains were found but Montreal can get lots and lots of snow in winter. Unfortunately so can Albany, NY and Boston.

ETA: kept reading and found out the awning was investigated.

Yes, I remember reading about that. For the time, I thought they did a pretty good job investigating the awning.

 

[Susikatze]

That was my first response, too, when I read that. It seems to fall within the propaganda that was being circulated in Germany in the 1930s about physical characteristics to identify Jewish people.

But I did read this article that stated nearly two thirds of Jews are descendants from Ashkenazi Jews and most of them live in North America. Another article said there are certain illnesses that can be found in Ashkenazi Jews and one of them was Fanconi Anemia. I also read that many Jewish people are lactose intolerant and untreated lactose intolerance can create anemia. Here's some links:

Fanconi anemia in Ashkenazi Jews - PubMed

Fanconi anemia (FA) should be included among the genetic diseases that occur at high frequency in the Ashkenazi Jewish population. FA exhibits extensive genetic heterogeneity; there are currently 11 complementation groups reported, and 8 (i.e., FANCA, FANCC, FANCD1/BRCA2, FANCD2, FANCE, FANCF...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

We’re lactose intolerant, so why all the cheese?

It’s ironic that traditional Chanukah desserts include rugelach (sweet pastries made from cream-cheese dough) and sufganiyot (doughnuts) even though Jews and dairy tend not to get along – intestinally speaking. Nearly 62% of the 110 Jewish Israeli children who were part of a 1985 study were...

www.sajr.co.za

Lactose Intolerance

www.foodintol.com

One of the doctors said he believed the victims were probably from Boston, where an orthodontist could have done the expensive orthodontic work, since it was the closest large city to the dump site, but another big city is actually closer and it's traditionally had a fairly high Jewish population. Montreal.

I'm interested in the squashed bullet found within the burial site under one of the skulls. If it still had its copper jacket that means it hadn't been fired.

Also, the other items found are of interest to me, especially what appears to be the remains of an awning, along with its pulley system. I would presume that an awning during that era would most likely belong to a commercial building and would be used at street level to shade windows and entrances. Early awnings from the late 19th century used a pulley system to adjust the shade. A bit cumbersome in the inclement weather during the winter they could be taken down. If this awning material was from a commercial building like a shop, it's possible it would be taken down during the winter because of snow load and the damage it could cause. It doesn't really give us any location other than the area where the remains were found but Montreal can get lots and lots of snow in winter. Unfortunately so can Albany, NY and Boston.

ETA: kept reading and found out the awning was investigated.

As for any endogamous population, some genetic recessive diseases are more prevalent in AJ populations than others. But theyre by no means an identifying marker. How many women carry BRCA or how many ppl have cystic fibrosis and there is no AJ background?

Lactose intolerance is funny, it is claimed it is more prevalent among AJ but hey, I am partially AJ, my husband fully and we live in an AJ community and very few people ive ever met were lactose intolerant. Jewish tradition is big on dairy.
So id take it with a grain of salt.

The forensic pathologist only claimed theyre probably Jewish because of their expensive dental work - which is rubbish - and because the "shape of the teeth" - which is nonsense.

An autosomal DNA profile would fairly easily show whether theyre AJ or not.

 

[lightofmine99]

The NamUs profiles for these three were modified September 17, 2024.

 

[cenazoic]

Woman: The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)
Child 13-15: The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)
Child 9 -11: The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

No rule outs on any of them.

Not sure what changed (publicly, anyway); possibly: "The location has recently been identified as off of Burnham Drive, a road that did not exist at the time."?

 

[mtlupy]

I keep finding myself drawn to this one. What a bizarre case! Someone has to know something, I don't care how long it's been. IMHO this would be a great podcast investigation.

 

[Susikatze]

I sm sure othram or another vry advanced lab can extract DNA here? If so, this is a very identifiable case. And then which upperclass husband suddenly was „left“ by his wife and kids back in the day. I am waiting for that to be solved, I bet it was a „hey she left me and took the kids“ case. Husband probably remarried, maybe a pregnant mistress who did not want to raise the alredy older and probably opposing kids.

JMOO

 

[Melt71]

I sm sure othram or another vry advanced lab can extract DNA here? If so, this is a very identifiable case. And then which upperclass husband suddenly was „left“ by his wife and kids back in the day. I am waiting for that to be solved, I bet it was a „hey she left me and took the kids“ case. Husband probably remarried, maybe a pregnant mistress who did not want to raise the alredy older and probably opposing kids.

JMOO

A post upthread indicates the cases are being worked by Identifinders.