WA - Cascade Mall, 5 fatalities, Burlington, 23 Sept 2016 *Arrest*

[Yvettea]

Somewhere I read AC left the mall in a waiting car. Now I can't find the reference. Wasn't it said he fled on foot leaving his car in the parking lot?

 

[K_Z]

Someone upthread asked why AC had access to guns if he had mental health problems.

Articles say that he DID steal this rifle from his stepfather, and others say the stepfather told the courts years ago that he removed the guns from the home.

But I have to emphasize that THIS gun was NOT a handgun. It was a HUNTING RIFLE. There is NO background NICS check, no licensing, no waiting periods, and no "permit to purchase" required in ANY state for this kind of gun. He could just as easily have walked into any store and purchased that hunting rifle and ammunition LEGALLY, without "needing" to steal it from his stepfather.

This is definitely not a case related to "gun control", because AC had the same lawful access to that gun as any citizen-- since he had not been convicted of any felonies (only misdemeanors). He is 20 years old, and he would have been allowed legally to purchase and own that kind of hunting rifle without any licensing or training at all.

He did have a 25 round magazine, which may or may not be legal in WA. I know the west coast, and California in particular, have handgun magazine limits of 10 rounds, but I'm not sure if that limit extends to bolt action rifles.

 

[Ray_of_hope]

"Online records show that Cetin was arrested in July 2015 on charges of assault in the fourth degree. KIRO reports that as a result of the charges, Cetin was ordered to undergo mental health counselling that he completed in March 2016. During which time, he was ordered not to take drugs or drink alcohol. As of August 25, 2016, Cetin was found in compliance with the court order.

The New York Daily News reports that the victim in the assault was Cetin’s stepfather. That man said at the time that the suspect was “going through a hard time.” The newspaper adds that Cetin also had an arrest for drunk driving. "

snipped

"A classmate of Cetin’s from Oak Harbor High School, Uhlaine Finnigan, told the New York Times that the suspect was “suspect.” She added that he would “touch girls on their buttocks” by “either slapping or grabbing them.” Finnigan also said that:

He did that to girls of all grades at the high school including my best friend and I, regardless of the blatant disgust from the girls and being told to stop."

http://heavy.com/news/2016/09/arcan...ton-washington-shooting-suspect-shooter-name/

 

[AmyPond]

I wouldn't think anything of the make-up location either, except he posted a question about make-up on social media. He asked if someone likes it, IRRC.

Most guys don't post on SM about make-up, so that stands out as unique to him. Add that to the shooting location, and I think there is a case that he chose that place because it was a make-up counter.

My hunch (only a hunch) is that he was lashing out at the type of women who wear make-up. In our culture, make-up isn't something most of us are bothered by - we might notice if someone wears heavy make up, is skilled at applying make-up, or prefers a fresh face....but we don't really care. Perhaps he read more meaning into make-up.

Maybe he saw make-up as a deception, or it indicated promiscuity, or that it represented an idle woman wasting time....who knows. But I have a hunch there was a connection.

I could be way wrong, of course, about the cosmetics angle, but even so, this guy seems to really disrespect women.

jmopinion

I didn't see that post on social media so I guess I can't say if I think it would be relevant or not.

Stabbed 10, killed 5???

Horrible "reporting" right there.

this article says he graduated in 2015 from Oak Harbor HS.



If he is now 20 years old, then he was a bit "late" graduating, and was likely 19+ years old at graduation. If he came to the U.S. around age 14-15, it may have taken him a year longer to "catch up", learn English, etc, accounting for the later graduation age. Or, his mental health and legal problems may have delayed his graduation, and he had to participate in things like credit recovery programs. His juvenile record is likely sealed, but if he was a defendant in SEVEN cases (below), it's likely he was removed from the regular curriculum for a part of high school-- juvenile detention, moved to alternative school, etc.



http://www.whidbeynewstimes.com/news/394705781.html

If I am remembering correctly, I think people on his FB page were telling him happy birthday in August. Which means he would have just recently turned 20. He would have still been 18 in May/June 2015 when he likely graduated. Pretty common.

 

[human]

Well, the immigration stuff is pretty complicated, but the fact that he did not automatically naturalize at age 18, means there was one or more issues complicating why that didn't happen.

And because of that, it's extremely unlikely he was much younger than 14-15 when he came to the U.S, because of the 2 year residency requirement with adoption before age 16, AND the automatic naturalization process once his mom became a citizen. (Naturalization thru prospective adoptive dad.)

Did AC's mother come on a fiancee visa? (likely) Did the husband marry the wife upon her arrival in the U.S.? Was there a delay in their marriage status becoming official?

What was AC's age on the date of their marriage? The date of their marriage would be the date of the mother's naturalization/ citizenship status, I think. (Naturalization of minor thru foreign born mom's naturalization at marriage to U.S. citizen.)

It could also be that his formal legal troubles somehow interfered with the automatic naturalization process, IDK.



http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...-confessed-attack-documents-article-1.2807105

Anyhow, it seems pretty likely that he was never formally/ officially adopted by the U.S. service member stepfather. That also may be why it was hard for the stepfather to dissolve the "no contact" order that he requested a couple years ago after the string of assaults. (Did the father even have formal guardianship, or just the mother?) AC was a minor, living in his home, "nearly adult" child of his spouse, in U.S. on a green card.

https://www.uscis.gov/us-citizenship/citizenship-through-parents

He was not born of American parents was he? Perhaps his father did not want to give up parental rights. Perhaps the mother has not taken her citizenship test.

 

[K_Z]

What I keep coming back to is that mental health problems don't suddenly appear. I have to wonder what his mental health and behavior were like before immigrating here. Certainly the challenges of a completely new culture could have exacerbated whatever mental health problems he already had-- if they were indeed genuine mental health problems, and not just oppositional / defiant type behavioral problems.

Sadly, just another case of a disaffected young adult immigrant that goes on a violent rampage.

 

[human]

What I keep coming back to is that mental health problems don't suddenly appear. I have to wonder what his mental health and behavior were like before immigrating here. Certainly the challenges of a completely new culture could have exacerbated whatever mental health problems he already had-- if they were indeed genuine mental health problems, and not just oppositional / defiant type behavioral problems.

Sadly, just another case of a disaffected young adult immigrant that goes on a violent rampage.

I wonder if they are imitating all of the disaffected young Americans such as Lanza, Elliot, Columbine and on and on,

 

[bluesneakers]

I wonder if they are imitating all of the disaffected young Americans such as Lanza, Elliot, Columbine and on and on,

Marysville was almost exactly two years ago.

 

[Yvettea]

Somewhere I read AC left the mall in a waiting car. Now I can't find the reference. Wasn't it said he fled on foot leaving his car in the parking lot?

Here it is: After shooting the five people, Cetin placed his Ruger rifle with a 25-round magazine on top of a cosmetics counter, left the store, entered a vehicle and fled the Cascade Mall in Burlington

If true this would mean an accomplice, something I've read nothing about.

http://abc7chicago.com/news/arcan-c...l-shooting-to-kill-5-prosecutors-say/1527152/

 

[Inthedetails]

Here it is: After shooting the five people, Cetin placed his Ruger rifle with a 25-round magazine on top of a cosmetics counter, left the store, entered a vehicle and fled the Cascade Mall in Burlington

If true this would mean an accomplice, something I've read nothing about.

http://abc7chicago.com/news/arcan-c...l-shooting-to-kill-5-prosecutors-say/1527152/

Why does that imply an accomplice? I'm not following - help me out!

 

[Aunt_Tulip]

Somewhere I read AC left the mall in a waiting car. Now I can't find the reference. Wasn't it said he fled on foot leaving his car in the parking lot?

In the very beginning, there was a report of a possibly Hispanic male in a gray sweatshirt running towards I-5 and shortly after that reports of someone trying to break into a home or garage in a neighborhood right across I-5. Turns out this was not the shooter at all and we don't even know for sure that the original report wasn't just someone running because he heard gun shots. The shooter did indeed just get in his car and drive away. This is part of how they ID'd him so quickly (besides people calling in). They saw him on parking lot surveillance cameras and caught his car on other traffic cams in Burlington clearly enough to get a license plate number. The car was registered to him. This is from the press conference on Saturday night after he was arrested. I watched it on TV, don't have a link handy. Sorry.

The memorial at the entrance is still small. There is a candlelight vigil tonight. There is a Walk the Mall event on Wednesday morning to show support for the stores and employees reopening for business. And many smaller fundraising and community support events around the county. We are Skagit Strong.

 

[Aunt_Tulip]

What I keep coming back to is that mental health problems don't suddenly appear. I have to wonder what his mental health and behavior were like before immigrating here. Certainly the challenges of a completely new culture could have exacerbated whatever mental health problems he already had-- if they were indeed genuine mental health problems, and not just oppositional / defiant type behavioral problems.

Sadly, just another case of a disaffected young adult immigrant that goes on a violent rampage.

I thought he just finished a year of weekly mental health counseling as part of his probation in addition to being court ordered not to have drugs or alcohol. Off to find the link...

 

[Aunt_Tulip]

As part of that misdemeanor fourth-degree assault case, Cetin was ordered to undergo a mental health evaluation in August 2015. The evaluation was completed as of March 2016, according to court records.
In May, a judge approved deferred prosecution in that assault case – meaning Cetin was not immediately convicted, and wouldn't be if he followed terms of the deferment. He was ordered not to have alcohol or drugs as part of the deferment.
As of Aug. 25, 2016, Cetin was in compliance with weekly sessions for mental health counseling. He complied with the alcohol assessment, according to court records, and he had a deferred prosecution review for the case scheduled for 2018.

​http://www.kiro7.com/news/local/what-to-know-about-the-burlington-wash-mall-/449647977

 

[dotr]

SEATTLE - Records obtained by the KING 5 Investigators showed a Kirkland mental health facility tried to involuntarily commit the suspected Cascade Mall shooter last year.

Records show the doctors at Fairfax Hospital told a King County judge they were gravely concerned about Arcan Cetin.
In documents filed with Island County District probation officers, a doctor checked a box indicating he was worried Cetin would harm himself.
A separate box indicating Ceton might harm others was not checked. It is unclear from these records whether or not Cetin was involuntarily admitted to the hospital.
Records also show that Cetin was diagnosed with autism, depression, and ADHD. He was receiving medicine like Prozac for his illnesses in the months before the shooting.

http://www.13newsnow.com/news/crime/cascade-mall-shooting-suspect-says-he-did-it-say-court-records/326258388
rbbm

 

[jjenny]

What I keep coming back to is that mental health problems don't suddenly appear. I have to wonder what his mental health and behavior were like before immigrating here. Certainly the challenges of a completely new culture could have exacerbated whatever mental health problems he already had-- if they were indeed genuine mental health problems, and not just oppositional / defiant type behavioral problems.

Sadly, just another case of a disaffected young adult immigrant that goes on a violent rampage.

He immigrated as a child.

 

[jjenny]

Someone upthread asked why AC had access to guns if he had mental health problems.

Articles say that he DID steal this rifle from his stepfather, and others say the stepfather told the courts years ago that he removed the guns from the home.

But I have to emphasize that THIS gun was NOT a handgun. It was a HUNTING RIFLE. There is NO background NICS check, no licensing, no waiting periods, and no "permit to purchase" required in ANY state for this kind of gun. He could just as easily have walked into any store and purchased that hunting rifle and ammunition LEGALLY, without "needing" to steal it from his stepfather.

..
.

I don't believe it would be legal for him to purchase guns because of domestic violence charges.

 

[Yvettea]

Somewhere I read AC left the mall in a waiting car. Now I can't find the reference. Wasn't it said he fled on foot leaving his car in the parking lot?

Here it is: After shooting the five people, Cetin placed his Ruger rifle with a 25-round magazine on top of a cosmetics counter, left the store, entered a vehicle and fled the Cascade Mall in Burlington

If true this would mean an accomplice, something I've read nothing about.

http://abc7chicago.com/news/arcan-c...l-shooting-to-kill-5-prosecutors-say/1527152/

Why does that imply an accomplice? I'm not following - help me out!

My apologies. The car he entered was his own car.

 

[Inthedetails]

My apologies. The car he entered was his own car.

Got it! Thanks.

 

[K_Z]

He immigrated as a child.

Well, he came as a minor, but not necessarily as a "child" (most definitions of child define that term for under age 12.) I think he was probably a teenager when he came.

We don't know for sure how long he's been here, but as I discussed in my earlier posts, it's unlikely he has been here for more than 5-6 years, because he would have become a naturalized citizen under 2 separate paths if he had been here much longer than that. One of those paths is "automatic", and does not require further hearings. He's still on a green card, so there is some issue that has put the brakes on his citizenship.

We don't know if he came here at the same time as his mother. It's possible she has been here longer, and he came some years after her. That could also contribute to why he's still on a green card.

Was it known while he was in Turkey that he has substantial behavioral problems, and possibly mental health issues?

Be that as it may, he just made a confession to 5 murders, so at a minimum, he will be serving 5 life sentences. He's never getting out again, so the taxpaying citizens of America will pay for his incarceration and court fees for roughly the next 60 years, until he dies behind bars. He will never walk free again. And for that, I'm glad.

 

[jjenny]

On social media, a person claimed she knew him in fourth grade. Which would mean that at 9-10 years he was already in US.
http://www.aol.com/article/2016/09/...assmates-claim-he-sexually-harassed/21478855/