Found Deceased WA - Cheryl DeBoer, 54, Mountlake Terrace, 8 February 2016 #6

[ANZAC]

If we knew Cheryl has mental issues, drug issues, a divorce, a diary with suicidal thoughts, her hubby had a 21 year old girlfriend..something then I would be more inclined to buy into the suicide theory but so far none of that has been the case so I just do not see how LE can say or even hint suicide might be the cause when there is no evidence that leads to that, just the bizarre lack of evidence is all we have plus unknown animal blood...im so puzzled still...

They've said no evidence of homicidal violence. As for history, many suicides are a complete surprise, people carry around some kind of distorted view of the world and their worth, never show enough evidence for a family to get them to seek help, and end their lives. It is sad but true. The work they are doing now (computer records etc) may present a clearer picture, or may not. We had one where the only piece of evidence to support suicide was a digital picture with a notation "this would be a good place to die", and it took a while for the detectives to find that even after we found the body.

 

[ANZAC]

I think the theory is that she entered the culvert on the East side, and her body was carried through the culvert to the West side.

Do you have a link or quote to support that? I've not seen anything.

 

[ANZAC]

All this. Thank you. The statement, "A lack of evidence of one thing is not evidence of something else."

If the razor blade was in Cheryl's coat pocket, she could have accidentally cut a finger reaching in her pocket as she checked for her badge. And the razor blade could have an innocent explanation for being there---she used it at home and absent-mindedly put it in her pocket. Or intended to use it in the car or at work to remove something from glass and took it along.

She had cuts on both hands. You wouldn't put two hands into your pocket.

 

[yelhsalobie]

What cemetery are you guys referring to?

 

[otto]

What cemetery are we all talking about? What is the name of the cemetery?

Abbey View Memorial Park is the name of the cemetery on the hill just East of Cedar Way. I'm more curious about trails along Lyon Creek. Knowing that Cheryl was a hiker, I think it's possible that she walked along the creek until she got to the culvert - if she committed suicide.

 

[U2forever]

I don't know if this will help but CD's case greatly interests me and like everyone here, I want her case solved and COD to be correct with no questions remaining.

I have tried suicide many, many times in my life and it's obvious I sucked at it.

I have been in ICU on ventilators more times than I can remember and once in an out of town hospital where my parents were told I was grave and may not make it.
I'm still here, hopefully to be able to help the next person, etc...

So, I'm here if needed...


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[otto]

Do you have a link or quote to support that? I've not seen anything.

A verified family member posted the information a couple of weeks ago.

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

I'm glad u are here u2forever! Thanks for your contributions here....we need u!

 

[mrsgladyskravitz]

I want to point out that the creek is not "next to the cemetery." The cemetery is on a hill/bluff, and also some distance away. You can see this if you go for a tour using Google Maps street view, although you don't get a clear idea of just how hilly this area is.

The cemetery is indeed on a hill/bluff. Notice the "Welcome to Mountlake Terrace" monument, atop the hill behind it, is the cemetery.

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[Sutton]

It has nothing to do with smartphones. I can't share any further details of how the process works, it is confidential.



In a missing persons search, there can be two efforts. One is the exigent search without a warrant, only to be used in situations where there is no indication a crime might have been committed. I'm not going to post the info again, it is posted in this thread. If it looks like there may be a crime committed, the search may be delayed until there is a warrant. And different agencies will be involved in the forensics once the data is made available. Things have changed a lot in the last 3-4 years.



If there was information used in a warrant for the phone records, it therefore must have been obtained through an exigent forensic search without a warrant. As I've said, we clearly know when a phone has been shut down by a person vs lost signal or the battery removed.

Also, to be clear, I'm not the one doing this stuff, I'm an observer and customer of the process, and have handled the output of the process. And yes I am being deliberately oblique.

I don't believe much of this to be true.

<modsnip>

 

[otto]

The cemetery is indeed on a hill/bluff. Notice the "Welcome to Mountlake Terrace" monument, atop the hill behind it, is the cemetery.

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Is that little sign at the T-intersection the cemetery sign?

Never mind - it says Welcome to the City of Mountlake Terrace.

 

[Sutton]

Anzac has been verified as SAR. Easily confirmed by looking at his/her profile.

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Thank you. I did look at Anzac's profile about 5 hours ago and did not see the verified SAR. Not sure how I missed it, it's very clear.

 

[mrsgladyskravitz]

Is that little sign at the T-intersection the cemetery sign?

The sign is the "Welcome to Mountlake Terrace" sign, next to the east side of the culvert.

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[ANZAC]

I don't believe much of this to be true.

OK. Free country.

No one is going to search through thousands of posts to find some thing you claim to have posted before.

You can search on my posts under my profile.

Have you been verified as a professional yet? You have said you wish to remain anonymous, but it has been pointed out that is not an issue.

Yes, and there was a post on it here detailing the type of work I do. And you can see it in my profile.

I think Cheryl committed suicide, but your posts are very condescending.

I'm sorry if I offended you or anyone here. I've been to many suicide and homicide scenes - as I said this case has a lot of the hallmarks of suicide, though I'm still open to homicide because you never know what is going to turn up in the remaining evidence they are processing. I'm giving my thoughts based on participation in and observation of the process, how these things usually go, and then some theorizing which when I do it, I'm trying to make clear that it is theorizing.

There is a limited amount I can say about the latest cell phone forensic processes. Some of this stuff is very new - eg there was some LE training in late 2014, as a lot of jurisdictions in WA didn't know the newer processes. I know professional posters are supposed to avoid saying "trust me" but I've tried to share as much as I can. (edit) I should point out I know less about the "warrant" side of the process, my experience is with the "exigent" side.

 

[otto]

I don't believe much of this to be true.

<modsnip>

This article explains the depth and breadth of information that police departments collect and access in real time.

"For years, dozens of departments used devices that can hoover up all cellphone data in an area without search warrants."​

https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...2bccac-8e15-11e5-baf4-bdf37355da0c_story.html

Two years ago, this technology was used. We can assume it has been greatly improved in the last two years:

"The Stingray is a popular cell phone surveillance device manufactured by Harris Corp. of Melbourne, Fla. Cell phones seek the strongest cell tower signal, and a Stingray pretends to be a cell tower with a strong signal.

The phones are tricked into passing data through government equipment before going to a legitimate cell phone tower - and the cell phone&#8217;s owner has no idea what happened."​

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news...police-use-cell-surveillance-device/?page=all

 

[Mollyandme]

I think it's definitely possible this was a homicide. From what info has been released, there's nothing to rule out homicide definitively.

It is well known that crime scenes can be staged and not unheard of for murderers to stage a homicide to look like a suicide. beginning with the car, the animal blood could be innocuous, and have nothing to do with either theory, but it could have been placed by a murderer with the intent of misleading and confusing the investigation.

In terms of the location Cheryl was found and the causes of death, she could have been smothered at another location (maybe even her own car) and then placed facedown in the culvert. I have read that people murdered elsewhere and then placed in water can still have a little bit of water in their lungs, as Cheryl did. If the whole murder occurred in the culvert and the perp put a bag over her head and then held her facedown in the water, she could have been grasping at things in the bottom of the culvert that could have caused cuts to the fingers. As someone else said, no doctor is perfect and it's possible the finger wounds were not self inflicted. Also, if she did die in the water, most drowning victims are found facedown but in a semi fetal position, which would still be present when found due to rigor mortis. I am not sure if this was the case, they said she was found facedown but I'm not sure about the positioning of the rest of her body.

In terms of suffocation with the plastic bag, someone could have placed the bag over her head and rendered her unconscious or killed her that way without producing any injuries to Cheryl that would indicate a struggle.

I think the inconsistencies that have been discussed at length could point to a staged crime scene, specifically a homicide staged to look like suicide. The blood in the car, animal blood in the car, wallet and phone missing but glasses found, razor blade found on Cheryl, and the cause of death, are definitely red flags to me.

Any theory of homicide or suicide in this case could be proved as long as any evidence that might disprove that theory is ignored or determined to be irrelevant. I really hope the police have more information and have a forensic scientist that specializes in looking at all of the evidence and filtering through it to determine what theories of either murder or suicide do fit with the evidence.

https://books.google.com/books?id=-...M#v=onepage&q=fetal position drowning&f=false

 

[grillzgirl]

OK. Free country.



You can search on my posts under my profile.



Yes, and there was a post on it here detailing the type of work I do. And you can see it in my profile.



I'm sorry if I offended you or anyone here. I've been to many suicide and homicide scenes - as I said this case has a lot of the hallmarks of suicide, though I'm still open to homicide because you never know what is going to turn up in the remaining evidence they are processing. I'm giving my thoughts based on participation in and observation of the process, how these things usually go, and then some theorizing which when I do it, I'm trying to make clear that it is theorizing.

There is a limited amount I can say about the latest cell phone forensic processes. Some of this stuff is very new - eg there was some LE training in late 2014, as a lot of jurisdictions in WA didn't know the newer processes. I know professional posters are supposed to avoid saying "trust me" but I've tried to share as much as I can.

Thank you for your contributions. It is greatly appreciated.

 

[ANZAC]

The sign is the "Welcome to Mountlake Terrace" sign, next to the east side of the culvert.

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Which way does water flow in the culvert?

 

[TTF14]

The sign is the "Welcome to Mountlake Terrace" sign, next to the east side of the culvert.

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I find it so hard to believe she was not seen in that culvert if she walked there and died in broad daylight.

 

[otto]

Which way does water flow in the culvert?

The water flows South.