Found Deceased WA - Cheryl DeBoer, 54, Mountlake Terrace, 8 February 2016 #6

[anonymess]

I'm thinking today about how the police have released a lot more info than normal because of public fear. Usually less detail is shared in msm in part due to best practices in mental health...

http://reportingonsuicide.org/

If very specific finds were made, such as a 5lb can of helium, etc. I don't even know how much we would hear about it

 

[Stripehaven]

I have found nothing to indicate that suicide is the final determination by LE. The post that said this offered nothing to support their claim, and it appears they are NOT verified. I wish people wouldn't post misinformation. It really confuses things in an already confusing case! Ugh.

You are correct; there has been no official determination of suicide. What HAS been stated is, there is no evidence at this time of homicide. Doesn't mean it was not homicide but at this point it can't be determined. LE says they are still investigating, so all we can hope is that they can come up with a definitive answer. I gather that they are LEANING toward suicide but nothing is certain yet.

I have seen posts here (not singling anyone out) expressing frustration with LE, but we have to acknowledge that we really have no idea what they have done this far, or what they are doing. We are all deeply invested in this, whether intellectually because we want to solve this puzzle, or emotionally because we are fearful for our community's safety and want answers, and/or we are human beings with empathy for Cheryl's loved ones and we hate knowing they don't have the answer they need. But no matter how passionately we care, we are not an auxiliary homicide squad and we can't expect to be privy to anything that could jeopardize an investigation. It is really hard to be patient - I am constantly checking this thread - but we have no choice but to wait.

It is cathartic to bounce ideas around and I appreciate reading all the contributions. But reality is that we are not going to solve this. Even if one of us totally figures it out, it doesn't matter unless and until LE can substantiate what happened.

 

[kammiemc]

I don't know if this will help but CD's case greatly interests me and like everyone here, I want her case solved and COD to be correct with no questions remaining.

I have tried suicide many, many times in my life and it's obvious I sucked at it.

I have been in ICU on ventilators more times than I can remember and once in an out of town hospital where my parents were told I was grave and may not make it.
I'm still here, hopefully to be able to help the next person, etc...

So, I'm here if needed...


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I am glad that you sucked at it and are still here. I appreciate that you and others who have been open with your personal experiences around the idea of suicide. It is very enlightening to understand that suicidal ideation might be more common than I realized.

 

[DatelineFan]

I'm thinking today about how the police have released a lot more info than normal because of public fear. Usually less detail is shared in msm in part due to best practices in mental health...

http://reportingonsuicide.org/

If very specific finds were made, such as a 5lb can of helium, etc. I don't even know how much we would hear about it

It hasn't been ruled a suicide. It's true that the media tries not to report much in suicides, but so far, that hasn't been determined in this case.

If there was helium, they probably would have more answers.

 

[anonymess]

It hasn't been ruled a suicide. It's true that the media tries not to report much in suicides, but so far, that hasn't been determined in this case.

If there was helium, they probably would have more answers.

I recognize that this case hasn't been officially ruled as a suicide, but when it is a possibility, details that could suggest suicide as a theory still are typically reported with much less detail. If it there hadn't been mounting public pressure, it's my guess that we never would've heard "razor blade" and "bag loosely secured" in specifics, etc. (All imho of course).

 

[DatelineFan]

<modsnip>

&#55357;&#56842;

I know I posted frustration with LE towards the end of the last thread. I later apologized to everyone. I, personally, have no reason to believe that LE isn't working hard on this case. It's just frustrating and sad.

I keep reminding myself that (presumably) we are all here for the same reasons; to support and honor Cheryl and her family and loved ones, to support one another, and to bounce around ideas in hopes to get things to make sense of find some answers. I agree with you that it's unlikely we will solve the case. It is cathartic to be here "together".

I did some poking around on social media and MSM articles over the last hour or two. I was specifically reading about Marianne Humble, and looking at what her friends and family said about her case. I know that it's been ruled an accident. I know that many will disagree with me, but I think there's a remote possibility that there's a link. The circumstances are just so similar! Unfortunately I can't quote Facebook, so I won't. But MH's case is a pretty mysterious "accident," in my opinion.

ETA, I just realized that at the end of my post it could sound like I'm accusing LE of a cover up. That's not at all my thinking. I'm thinking there's possibly a very cunning perp out there!

 

[ANZAC]

There are studies on the internet looking at how long fingerprints survive on metal surfaces such as guns...it seems many weeks are possible and in this case if the blade was in a pocket it may be better preserved than if it was in the current.

...I will return with a link...
ETA:
http://www.evidencemagazine.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=658

Right, I think they always look for latent prints regardless. Usually the water is the biggest enemy of any kind of DNA results. I know we've had searches (for bloody knives) where we were in a hurry to find them before overnight rain.

 

[ANZAC]

There's nothing secret about the data. Forensics can't detect something that isn't there and by industry estimates it'll be 2021 before 95% of the cell phones in North America are capable of putting it there. The 3PGG, who define the standards, has the specs available on their website. Programmers discuss implementation (and buggy phones) on the net in plain sight.

You're not thinking broadly enough. They're doing some pretty amazing stuff. It really has nothing to do with the actual phones, or the software on the phones. You're thinking way in the wrong direction. The link I posted was about someone getting an award for what they're doing in this area.

 

[Yvettea]

From Lenore Peterson, Cheryl's mother -
"As confusing as the news reports are, our family is unwilling to discontinue the investigation surrounding Cheryl's death. It is inconceivable that Cheryl would take meat out of the freezer for dinner, text the driver of her carpool that she would be at the park and ride in 10 minutes, park her car, walk 1 1/2 miles, crawl through brambles and mud, put a plastic bag over her head and lie face down in a cold shallow creek to end her life. There is no evidence of drugs in her body, nor evidence from family or co-workers of depression or other reasons for her to even consider suicide. The lack of understandable evidence is not a reason to assume this is suicide. If Cheryl would have ever considered this, she could have thought of many easier ways to accomplish the act. I'm sorry, but Cheryl did not take her own life!! Someone out there knows something. Please contact the MLT police!!!"

http://mynorthwest.com/11/2939704/F...bt-surrounding-Mountlake-Terrace-womans-death

Passionate pleas from the family may have lead some to conclude that LE had informed the family that suicide was the manner of death.

 

[Treelights]

&#65533;&#65533;

I know I posted frustration with LE towards the end of the last thread. I later apologized to everyone. I, personally, have no reason to believe that LE isn't working hard on this case. It's just frustrating and sad.

I keep reminding myself that (presumably) we are all here for the same reasons; to support and honor Cheryl and her family and loved ones, to support one another, and to bounce around ideas in hopes to get things to make sense of find some answers. I agree with you that it's unlikely we will solve the case. It is cathartic to be here "together".

I did some poking around on social media and MSM articles over the last hour or two. I was specifically reading about Marianne Humble, and looking at what her friends and family said about her case. I know that it's been ruled an accident. I know that many will disagree with me, but I think there's a remote possibility that there's a link. The circumstances are just so similar! Unfortunately I can't quote Facebook, so I won't. But MH's case is a pretty mysterious "accident," in my opinion.

ETA, I just realized that at the end of my post it could sound like I'm accusing LE of a cover up. That's not at all my thinking. I'm thinking there's possibly a very cunning perp out there!

About Marianne Humble, it hasn't been ruled an accident.
It is Undetermined by the medical examiner.

"The Snohomish County Medical Examiner&#8217;s Office has completed the identification of a 53-year old female who was found in the Snohomish River on January 20, 2016. The decedent is Marianne Humble of Monroe, WA. The Cause of death is fresh water drowning. The manner of death is Undetermined."

"January 26, 2016"

http://snohomishcountywa.gov/ArchiveCenter/ViewFile/Item/4431

 

[DaffyDill]

I still have a difficult time thinking this was suicide. This incident had it's beginning near the police station, library, and civic center. It ended near a sign that says "Welcome to the City of Mountlake Terrace". If this was homicide, and if it was by someone unknown to CD, could it be she was unwittingly lured by someone who appeared to be trustworthy because they were wearing what seemed to be either a uniform or official looking badge?

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

OK. Free country.



You can search on my posts under my profile.



Yes, and there was a post on it here detailing the type of work I do. And you can see it in my profile.



I'm sorry if I offended you or anyone here. I've been to many suicide and homicide scenes - as I said this case has a lot of the hallmarks of suicide, though I'm still open to homicide because you never know what is going to turn up in the remaining evidence they are processing. I'm giving my thoughts based on participation in and observation of the process, how these things usually go, and then some theorizing which when I do it, I'm trying to make clear that it is theorizing.

There is a limited amount I can say about the latest cell phone forensic processes. Some of this stuff is very new - eg there was some LE training in late 2014, as a lot of jurisdictions in WA didn't know the newer processes. I know professional posters are supposed to avoid saying "trust me" but I've tried to share as much as I can. (edit) I should point out I know less about the "warrant" side of the process, my experience is with the "exigent" side.

Anzac, I want to thank you for your posts and insights. I'm very glad you are here sharing your knowledge!

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

 

[DanceCard]

Passionate pleas from the family may have lead some to conclude that LE had informed the family that suicide was the manner of death.

Yes, I can see how that could happen.

 

[Treelights]

I still have a difficult time thinking this was suicide. This incident had it's beginning near the police station, library, and civic center. It ended near a sign that says "Welcome to the City of Mountlake Terrace". If this was homicide, and if it was by someone unknown to CD, could it be she was unwittingly lured by someone who appeared to be trustworthy because they were wearing what seemed to be either a uniform or official looking badge?

Welcome DaffyDill!

 

[DatelineFan]

About Marianne Humble, it hasn't been ruled an accident.
It is Undetermined by the medical examiner.

"The Snohomish County Medical Examiner’s Office has completed the identification of a 53-year old female who was found in the Snohomish River on January 20, 2016. The decedent is Marianne Humble of Monroe, WA. The Cause of death is fresh water drowning. The manner of death is Undetermined."

"January 26, 2016"

http://snohomishcountywa.gov/ArchiveCenter/ViewFile/Item/4431

Thank you for the correction! I was reading an article that apparently wasn't updated.

 

[DanceCard]

Forgive me if this has been discussed already (first time posting, but I have been reading)

Have they been able to determine a general time of death?

And I don't know if someone is able to answer this, but if she had walked, jogged, or ran for 1.5 miles to the culvert, she would have given herself a form of exercise, naturally increasing her own heartrate. So my question is, would that make suffocating yourself that much MORE difficult to fight your own adrenaline, or easier NOT to fight your own adrenaline? Or would she have to wait in there or around there, until she was calm?

If she had a plan or no plan until that morning, she would have needed to believe in her confidence that she was going to be able to NOT fight herself from removing the bag & without taking any medications. It doesn't seem like a foolproof method. If she ran there, the bag could have easily blown away in the wind, before she noticed, then what?

The only obvious thing about this tradegy is there was a plan, and its not as immediately obvious as to whose it was and why? Its heartbreaking.

Welcome, sun!
:welcome:

 

[Lilibet]

I'm going to go ahead and repost what I posted a couple of nights ago. Even though no one responded, so maybe it's a pointless idea , I still think it's just as possible as murder or suicide.

My main point is that this lady lived. But if she had died in the very small culvert with a plastic bag over her head and cuts on her fingers (entirely possible), we would probably think it was either murder or suicide...and we'd be wrong. I'm not saying that I'm convinced this is what happened to Cheryl, but I have no reason to think it didn't. To me, this scenario is just as realistic or unrealistic (with the information we have) as suicide or murder. Feel free to shoot holes in it. But as I said in the post, the difference in age is irrelevant.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ace-8-February-2016-6&p=12432710#post12432710

 

[otto]

This news story in my area got my attention. A 70 year old woman with no history of dementia was missing for 14 hours. She was eventually tracked by K9's to an underground culvert one tenth mile from her home and found alive with mild hypothermia at 3:00 a.m. She has no idea how or why she got there. I'm sure tests are being run during her hospital stay, but tests are often inconclusive.

Of course, there was no razor blade or plastic bag or death so I realize Cheryl's case is totally different, but things do happen that we don't understand. Certainly, this woman could have cut her own fingers and been found dead with a bag over her head face down in the water. If she had, would we assume it was suicide or murder? Probably. But we wouldn't know for sure. However, she didn't die and we know it was a possibly unexplainable action on her part. Could the same be true of Cheryl?

Before anyone starts with the age comparisons to Cheryl as if 70 is ancient and reason enough to end up mysteriously in a culvert, trust me, 70 is NOT "elderly" in most people. I should know! Something like that could happen to anyone for any number of reasons besides age. It could have happened to Cheryl.

https://kobi5.com/news/woman-found-missing-from-her-home-24338/

Thank you for linking this. You make a good point. People have sometimes done very strange things for no apparent reason.

 

[eucalyptuz]

I'm going to go ahead and repost what I posted a couple of nights ago. Even though no one responded, so maybe it's a pointless idea , I still think it's just as possible as murder or suicide.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ace-8-February-2016-6&p=12432710#post12432710

Sorry Lilibet, I'm sure no one ignored it on purpose...sometimes this thread just ticks along so fast that some posts just don't get a look in.

I've read the articles on her case and while there are similarities...the difference in age is a big sticking point for me (I have a mom that was diagnosed with Alzheimer's at 69*). And this report BBM :

Around 3:00 a.m., the teams found Page in a culvert under Highway 199.

Deputies say that she initially refused to come out, but then agreed. They say that she had multiple cuts to her hands and contusions to her face and shoulders from crawling through the culvert.

- See more at: http://www.kdrv.com/news/373386311.html#sthash.cZ8yZRog.dpuf

If voluntary (as suicide), or and act of temporary dementia, this seems so "Left-Field" for Cheryl. No history. No age-related problems. But who knows?

ETA: *my mother was perfectly capable and living independently until a sudden and irreversible slide. Found outside in her night dress, severely dehydrated and agitated in the mid-afternoon by a passer-by.

 

[Treelights]

Thank you for the correction! I was reading an article that apparently wasn't updated.

Oh you are welcome!
You know me, I love those links!!
I am a linker!