WA WA - D.B. Cooper hijacking mystery, 24 Nov 1971 - #1

[scandi]

Thanks Birdie, I'm glad you came out of lurkdom LOL I think when I called channel 6 and had that nice chat I told her I belonged to websleuths and she expressed an interest in the site when I told her we studied crimes. I can't exactly remember now, must have told her my name here for authenticity, but the day I heard from Leftcoast I was elated!

This guy has committed a lot of crimes in his life. Not murder that I know of but bank robberies which can be violent. LC might have a feel as to whether or not this man has violence in him, but he certainly is decisive when he decides to do something. He is probably still that way. I don't want any harm to come to LC either, or his partner!

I just hope he would love the notiriety {sp} of being given credit for what he did - commit the only hijacking in the US that is still on the books!

Scandi

 

[leftcoast]

Hey Guys, Thanks for all of your concern. OUr safety is an issue, but, we have taken precautions, and if anything does happen, everyone knows where to start looking. The weird thing about this guy, is that he is the nicest person we have talked to about the case. However, when we did a criminal background check, our opinion has kind of changed. Yes, he is capable of violence, but, most of it was back in the 70's. AS for now, he is in his early 70's, has a few assets, a wife or significant other, and actually has something to lose now. But, whenever we visit, we always call a third party, and tell them where we are, and if they don't hear from us, to come looking in an hour.

Adnoid: Interesting that the VOR is lit at night. How convenient? I was surprised to hear you say you think he got away. Most people don't think that you can beat the FBI. Glad to hear that you think on your on, look at the evidence, and make your own opinion.

As for whether the feds searched the BTG VOR at the time. I honestly don't know. I seriously doubt it. Based on what I have heard and discussed with H-bach, the feds were convinced that Cooper was up by Lake Merwin. The Feds actually thought Cooper was stupid enough to pull his ripcord at a high altitude, and that the winds would have blown him for miles. Like I said earlier, I think he pulled at 1,000 or 1,500 feet, came straight down, had transportation waiting and was out of there. Only a fool wouldn't have an escape plan.


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[leftcoast]

adnoid: The statue of limitations on air piracy was five years. However, the FEDS indicted Cooper under "abstentia", ie, a "John Doe" indictment in 1976, just before the statues expired. Hence, technically, he could be tried.



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[mysteriew]

70 years old, knowing he is nearing the end of his life, knowing that years before he got away with a hijacking for money, that he fooled the FBI, and all these years he couldn't talk about it.
I can see him telling. Maybe he thinks the statute of limitations will not apply, maybe he thinks no one will prosecute it, maybe he thinks no one will put him in prison because of his age- or maybe he wants the recognition.
It kind of reminds me of Dennis Radar- goes years without being suspected, then suddenly decides he wants attention.

 

[leftcoast]

Mysterview: Good call, I like the way you think. I do think that these criminals who have gotten away with famous crimes, ie Rader, maybe Cooper, do want the recognition of outsmarting LE. Good thought. Now, if only our guy will confess. We will know in a week.


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[leftcoast]

Well, define getting away with it! If he did live, he's been forced to live in the shadows ever since with the thought of one little screwup sending him to a bad place for a long time. Not a great way to live in my book - can't use the money in any obvious way, so all you do is spread it out over a period of time to live a basic existence. Might as well get an honest job or something.

By getting away with it, I meant that Cooper survived the jump, and got out of the area. It is true that getting all of that cash is very difficult to launder. It's not like you can buy a house, car, airplane, etc, with cash, as it raises red flags and there are federal laws regarding reporting cash deposits with banks.

Basically, what this guy did was to no longer work, and start a business as a front in order to launder the funds and make it look like he was living an honest life. HOwever, anyone who understands business, could easily see that his little business venture was a front, and a money losing front at that. The most obvious part of this was where he decided to locate his business, as if, he was hoping that very few people could find it.

Plus, don't forget, this guy was making a very small amount of money at his job before the heist. He was basically making around 30,000 or so in today's money, which, is not going to afford you the luxury of owning your own plane. On top of this, he was deep in debt, and was finally arrested for armed robbery. I would call this a desperate time, especially for someone closing in on 40, who now is a convicted felon.

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[scandi]

. . . . . Plus you said that he commited several crimes after the hijacking which must have netted him more dineros. Hopefully many of those years were spent in the slammer! I guess I'm assuming the later crimes were bank robbery related.

A WEEK ! Wow, that's nothing after all of the work you've done. I bet you guys are so excited. Say Hi to your friend from us, OK. We will all be on pins and needles waiting with baited breath, standing at attention to receive any news you bring to us! YaYa

Scandi

 

[scandi]

Adnoid, I don't know if I thanked you for that photo of the BTG VOR. Really interesting. I was surprised to see an office below the white dish thing. Is it manned by the FAA? Scandi

 

[leftcoast]

Yes, Adnoid, thanks from me for the ground picture of the BTG Vor, I had no idea they were so tall.


Scandi: He wasn't convicted of any crimes until 6 or 7 years after the Cooper heist. It was not a bank robbery, but, was related to theft of something with a large value. He received very little time. This arrest also assured him that he was not a suspect for the Cooper case, as they didn't question him about this during this arrest.

Don't forget. Most criminals get away with the majority of crimes. Just because it was his first arrest, it doesn't mean it was his first crime.

yes, we are anxious. Hopefull, he will be home, and in a talking mood.

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[scandi]

OMG, How funny. I thought it looked like an office, but really it is a very complicated mechanical unit. I thought it was just a lighted marker, but didn't think far enough. The planes tag into it's electronics, Gees :doh: Oh well, time for this galo to get to bed! LOLOLOL

 

[leftcoast]

OMG, How funny. I thought it looked like an office, but really it is a very complicated mechanical unit. I thought it was just a lighted marker, but didn't think far enough. The planes tag into it's electronics, Gees :doh: Oh well, time for this galo to get to bed! LOLOLOL

Scandi: Don't be so hard on yourself. I actually thought they would be staffed also, considering it looks like an office building with window a/c. But, I guess the a/c is just to make sure the electronics don't got too hot. I did read that the VOR's have built in breakers that shut down automatically if the electronics signals are malfunctioning.

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[scandi]

Adnoid, I think you're just plain brilliant! The bomb could have really been a device to tell him when to jump out?

I can hardly wait to hear LC's answer. I'll be a work all day but will check in pronto the minute I can tonight!

Have a great day guys. Scandi

 

[leftcoast]

That is correct.

I had another thought, which may be a little out there, about the suitcase that Cooper had which he claimed held a bomb. You had asked if a handheld VOR receiver was around in 1971, and there were none. However, one could put a receiver and a panel indicator in a suitcase along with a couple of batteries that would power it for an hour or so. The receiver is a box, and the indicator which is normally mounted on the instrument panel looks like this:

http://www.avionix.com/store/media/IND-351.gif

And there would be a number of wires connected between all the pieces.

I assume he took the suitcase with him and it's never been found - correct?

Yes, this is not that far out there. The flight attendant only got one really good look at the supposedly "bomb". She explained it as something that looks like "road flares", with wires, and a long think battery the diameter of her arm. I think she also mentioned the battery was similar to one of those huge flashlight batteries that are used in the big flashlights, but a bit longer. So, basically, it could have been either a battery, or the VOR indicator in your picture. IF it was the VOR, he still would have needed a battery, is that corrrect?

As for the briefcase, as far as I know, it has never been found. So, yes, it is assumed he took it with him.

Adnoid, as I have stated before, I really am convinced he had some type of navigational aid with him. Once again, you have come through. If you think this through logically, his jumpsite was one of the most important parts of this plan. Everything, and I mean everything, that Cooper did on that plane, was meticulously planned. Jumping at the right moment was paramount. Especially if he didn't have an accomplice, which I believe he didn't.



good job with the thinking adnoid:

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ps If you think about this crime, the only thing Cooper was not an expert on, was how to get those aftstairs down on that 727. IN my mind, that is why Cooper wanted the stairs lowered before takeoff.

 

[leftcoast]

Adnoid: Thanks for the pictures of the devices. Just so I know we are certain. Cooper was in the back of the plane. Would he have any difficulty picking up the BTG VOR? or would the antenna work even in the rear of the plane? Another thing, with access to his own plane, he could have easily checked out his device, timing, and jumpsite on numerous occasions.

another point, Cooper told the pilots not to send out the standard hijack signal because it could interfere with his bomb. I always thought that Cooper gave away too much information with this request. First of all, most of us don't even know there is such a signal. Hence, he have away that he was most likely a pilot of some type. Secondly, it gave away he may have been using some type of electronic signal to determine his jumpsite. Or least, that was my conclusion. I guess authorities had their own conclusion. Maybe Cooper was worried the signal would interfere with his instruments, although you would think it would be unlikely.

good work, you are hired. I sure wish you could have been with us when we had lunch with the investigator back in 2001. It would have been an event that you would have never forgotten. I'm still in shock.

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[leftcoast]

Pre-9/11 I used to take my handheld with me on commercial flights, it worked just fine in the cabin.

As far as the hijack "signal", that's a red herring. It was already well known that the plane had been hijacked, so any of the signals pilots use to tell ATC about unlawful interference would not be needed. There is no separate transmitter, you either use the transponder or the communications radio in...we'll just say "certain ways"...to alert the ground folks to a hijack.

Well, yes, it was obvious. the pilots were told to call in his request for money, chutes, etc, and not to land until everything was ready. So, the signal would be redundant. However, Cooper's knowledge of such a signal separates him from an average passenger. Also, it still doesn't necessarily mean that Cooper didn't think it may interfere with his navigational aid. Or Cooper had a separate reason for not wanting this signal sent which is only known to him. Such as wanting authorities to think that he was or had been a commercial pilot, etc.
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[leftcoast]

Or, another scenario is that Cooper (just like our suspect) likes to brag about his knowledge of aviation. For example, Cooper argued with the pilot of the flight as to whether it was safe for the 727 to take off with the aftstairs in the extended position. Turns out, the pilot refused, and Cooper lowered the aftstairs in flight. Cooper also gave the number of degrees in which to set the flaps. When asked by the pilots, he responded "15 degrees". He also knew how long it would take to fill up a 727, and that a frozen nozzle on a fuel truck in Seattle was nonsense. Why in the world would you give out this expertise and knowledge of aviation. I can think of only two possibilities. 1) you want everyone to think you are a commercial pilot, work for boeing, etc. or 2) you are somebody with a huge ego who has to be more knowledgeable about airplanes then everyone else.

I think both are actually true.
And if you were to meet our suspect, he definitely fits this personality quirk.

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[curious1]

...snip...Curious.

Yes, you needed something? Couldn't resist. All of this info between you and LC is fascinating. I would love to see you two sitting down discussing this in person. Maybe I'm just a geek. Keep the ideas coming guys, you 2 will have this case wrapped up in no time.

 

[leftcoast]

Curious: Thanks for the interest. After years of work, my buddy and I pretty much have most of it figured out, we just weren't sure about the VOR and navigational aids available back in 1971. Some people have told us that Cooper wouldn't need any navigational aids, and could simply time the route, and wait for a break in the clouds to find his dropzone. Others, people tell us that there was no way Cooper could have known where he was when he jumped. To these people, I kept arguing with them, but, eventually it was like arguing with a two year old as to why they can't play on the freeway.

Many of the aspects of this case can be argued.
Some pilots we have spoken to say that the 727 could have taken off with the aftstairs deployed. Others say while it was possible, it would have been dangerous.

This case comes down to the following: given what we have discussed, do you believe that Cooper could have jumped at 8:13 and made it to a phone by 10:00pm? I say absolutely. As a matter of fact, I think Cooper was sipping a beer at home at 10:00, called the feds, and made sure the call was on his home phone.

Feel free to add your comments.

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[leftcoast]

adnoid: As far as the 727 taking off the aftstairs down, the pilots we talked to said that the 727 could rotate, but, that the stairs may have some damage, or could have simply ripped off, or would have retracted. Obviously, it would not be an ideal situation, and the runway would have also filled with sparks,imo. But, Cooper was obviously concerned because he didn't know how to lower the stairs, and he was afraid the feds might seal the aftstairs shut while the plane was on the ground in seattle. At least that is my take.

As far as where he lived at the time. He lived within walking distance to the Portland airport. AS to where the phone call came from, we don't know. The FEDS never investigated.

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[AlwaysShocked]

From what altitude do skydivers normally jump? What about army paratroopers?