WA WA - D.B. Cooper hijacking mystery, 24 Nov 1971 - #1

[leftcoast]

From what altitude do skydivers normally jump? What about army paratroopers?

Hi.

I'm not a skydiving expert, but, when I have jumped, it was from 12,000 feet. Back in wwii, when the army used to have entire plane loads of paratroopers jump static line, they jumped as low as 1,500 feet, as their chutes opened automatically after jumping. The highest skydive ever, was from over 95,000 feet, but, this of course, required oxygen, and a drogue chute.

left

 

[leftcoast]

Adnoid: Once again, thanks for sharing your knowledge about navigation with us. I still believe Cooper used a navigational aid, while my buddy thinks he simply timed it or used Lake Merwin as a landmark. I guess that is what makes the world go around. Either way.

However, I finally was able to get a hold of my flight information. The following is what is explained in various books, meetings, video's.

According to the FBI and Paul Soderlind, Director of Flight Operations-technical for Northwest Airlines, the jet was on V-23 when Cooper jumped. Soderlind (there seems to be little dispute that the jet was on V-23 while flying with Cooper), after reviewing radar reports, etc. was uncertain where the jet was on v-23 at 8:13pm. Soderlind estimated the jet was south of the Lewis river and north of the Columbia River, somewhere on v-23 in this 20 mile corrider.

The FBI did their own research and determined that Cooper jumped at 8:13pm and that the jet was approximately 6 miles west, southwest of Lake Merwin. Because the FBI assumed Cooper would pull his chute early, they projected a four mile drift to the Northeast because they felt the wind was coming from the southwest. That is why the Laker Merwin area is so popular with the feds. One must remember, the jet was about 6 miles from Lake Merwin, on v-23, when Cooper jumped.

The exact spot the fbi felt Cooper jumped is over a place called "highland cemetery", or 2 miles west of Bald Mountain. I believe it is about 3 minutes flying time from the BTG VOR, give or take.

As for the weather conditions. Per one excellent source, the ground winds were from the southwest at 15mph, and the temperature was 43 degrees. However, other sources have argued differently.


left

 

[Tranaice]

Wow, what an interesting thread. Kudos Leftcoast to you and your friend for all of your hard work and sleuthing. And Adnoid, your knowledge is just amazing. I can't wait to hear outcome. It sure sounds like you've found the right man.:clap:

 

[leftcoast]

Wow, what an interesting thread. Kudos Leftcoast to you and your friend for all of your hard work and sleuthing. And Adnoid, your knowledge is just amazing. I can't wait to hear outcome. It sure sounds like you've found the right man.:clap:

Thanks. Yes, Adnoid has been very helpful. We were fortunate to find a pilot to assist us in this discussion. We had a few questions as to navigational aids, and he definitely cleared them up.

Again, thanks for the encouragement.

 

[AlwaysShocked]

Is that a terribly high amount of wind to jump in? Are paratroopers trained to jump in 15 mph winds?

(I have always thought he lived, btw) My sis was living in Seattle at the time it happened, so even though I am in the East, I followed the story at the time.

It certainly sounds like you have met up with the elusive Mr. Cooper.

Wikipedia has an "age progression" drawing here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DB_Cooper

Does this look anything at all like the man you have interviewed?

 

[leftcoast]

Is that a terribly high amount of wind to jump in? Are paratroopers trained to jump in 15 mph winds?

(I have always thought he lived, btw) My sis was living in Seattle at the time it happened, so even though I am in the East, I followed the story at the time.

It certainly sounds like you have met up with the elusive Mr. Cooper.

Wikipedia has an "age progression" drawing here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DB_Cooper

Does this look anything at all like the man you have interviewed?

Hi Always Shocked: No, 15 mph of wind is not a significant amount of wind, especially for a pro.

Don't know much about paratroopers. I do know when hundreds of paratroopers jump together, the wind could play a factor in knocking the skydivers into each other. However, in this case, it is a moot point.

We sure feel we have the right guy. thanks for agreeing. there are just too many coincidences, not to mention his overnight financial independence.

He has some of the characteristics of the two drawings, the high forehead, long nose, dark skin. He actually looks a lot like the age progressed picture, even more so than the drawing taken at the time. The only thing is that he is basically bald, which matches with the hairdo of the "bing crosby" sketch, which was drawn at the time.

good questions

left

 

[AlwaysShocked]

Okay, so the age progression artist should have given the "bald" option.

At this time, is your interest in this case based on wanting to see the perpetrator prosecuted? And what are the chances of the FBI actually wanting to look into any current claims on this case? Are they not better off to just allow the case to remain "buried"? (I mean, so hey, a few nuts on an internet message board are making claims? Who cares? If the FBI actually investigated this guy - or re-investigated this guy - it might make the news. And they surely don't want that!)

If your guy IS d.b. cooper, he must be wanting to tell his story - to SOMEONE! And there are plenty, like myself, who would like to hear his story!

Have you ever approached this man from the aspect of selling his story, writing a book, etc.? It would make a fascinating book or movie - including your research into finding him.

I realize his fear would be prosecution. Could he agree to co-operate with a professional writer on the basis of "IF I did it" - sort of like the O.J. Simpson book. (Hate to bring up O.J. The Murderer. But no murder involved, no one was hurt in this case.)

Having become, in a manner, a folk hero, it would be a shame for him to go to his grave without telling his story!

 

[leftcoast]

Okay, so the age progression artist should have given the "bald" option.

At this time, is your interest in this case based on wanting to see the perpetrator prosecuted? And what are the chances of the FBI actually wanting to look into any current claims on this case? Are they not better off to just allow the case to remain "buried"? (I mean, so hey, a few nuts on an internet message board are making claims? Who cares? If the FBI actually investigated this guy - or re-investigated this guy - it might make the news. And they surely don't want that!)

If your guy IS d.b. cooper, he must be wanting to tell his story - to SOMEONE! And there are plenty, like myself, who would like to hear his story!

Have you ever approached this man from the aspect of selling his story, writing a book, etc.? It would make a fascinating book or movie - including your research into finding him.

I realize his fear would be prosecution. Could he agree to co-operate with a professional writer on the basis of "IF I did it" - sort of like the O.J. Simpson book. (Hate to bring up O.J. The Murderer. But no murder involved, no one was hurt in this case.)

Having become, in a manner, a folk hero, it would be a shame for him to go to his grave without telling his story!

1) Yes, a aged-progressed drawing of Cooper losing his hair would be more accurate.

2) I am not a vengeful person. I'll leave that up to the laws of our nation. AS for the FBI, the agents who originally investigated this case, have long since retired, so, I don't see where it would necessarily embarass the current FBI.

As for us being a "few nuts on the internet". We were actually invited here from "Scandi" who started this thread after seeing us on a local television news program. A local station checked out our story, and did a piece on the anniversary of the crime.

3) I do think he wants to tell the story, and that is why he is encouraging us, via spending time with us on the story. However, if and when the story goes in his direction, he has a tendency to have to get going to run a few errands.

4) Every option is being explored

5) Hopefully, he will talk to us. If even he doesn't and writes a book, we will have been the ones to smoke him out.

6) As calling him a "folk hero". I wouldn't call him that. Most of that folk hero b.s. starting because he outsmarted the FBI and don't forget, people were a bit more rebellious back in the late 60's, early 70's, especially after the debacle of Viet Nam.

If you knew his entire life story, as we do (assuming he is the guy), you may have a different opinion of him. Abandoning a young wife and child, sticking a 45 in a guy's face, and several other felonies which I can't disclose for obvious reasons. Trust me, the other crimes resulted in the ultimate of tragedy. Trust me, he didn't take the 200,000 and start feeding the homeless, or helping out our soldiers returning from Nam. Plus, let's not forget the damage he did to the crew of that flight. One flight attendant left the airline, and everybody was afraid that Cooper would blow up that plane. This was not a victimless crime.

left

 

[scandi]

Hi Leftcoast,

First, I am so happy you did come and share with us all of the info you have given to us. It has made the crime come alive again, and I know our posters always love to sink their teeth into a great puzzle. I would say that the only unsolved case in the USA of hijacking is one he!! of a puzzle.

The way I look at it, Sweet Justice isn't always fair. The current trend for attacking COLD CASES, to solve them and put them to final rest, has taken hold in America. This case should be right up at the top of the list to solve, because it was not a victimless crime as you say.

Such a proven premeditated plan to commit a crime should not be excused because it is 36 years old, or that he is now a geriatric or that the FBI gave it their all and it was unsolvable so they put it at the bottom of the stack.

I hope you proceed with full vigor to expose this man with every avenue you have LC. It is the only right thing to do IMHO LE should hold you tight, for what you have learned has livened up the case whether or not they admit it! Bringing that Sweet Justice up from her knees for a sneak attack, and to settle the score!~

I certainly do think they will take notice. In fact they are hopefully already in tune with your work on the case.


PS: I also address this to your friend and cohort in your investigative work. Be sure and let him know we admire him too! ;} Scandi

 

[AlwaysShocked]

left: When I used the phrase "a few nuts on the internet" I would include myself into that phrase. I was referring to what the FBI might say. NOT what I think!

I did not intend it as an insult to you or your friend, and I am not in anyway questioning your posts here.

I believe you and I'm sorry if I wrote that in a way that it read as if I was attempting to insult you. That was not my intention at all!

I just know there are a whole lot of people out there who still roll their eyes when they hear the phrase "I read it on a message board on the internet". Obviously I am not one of them.

 

[reportertype]

Discovery channel had one of its investigating history specials on Cooper a couple of nights ago. I was, unfortunately, busy with something else, but I do remember they had their professional skydiver guy jump in the dark and try to count to 30, to time when to open his parachute.

This guy did it twice and both times he opened his chute too early, at 23 seconds. (Sorry, the 30 seconds was based on where the plane was, wind, that sort of stuff and I missed the details.)

I hope they show it again when I'm not doing anything.

 

[leftcoast]

Scandi, Thanks for your continued support. I, too, believe this case should be solved. Sure, if true, it may give the FBI who investigated the case a bit of embarassment. But, in the end, public support for the current FBI will be enhanced. IMO. It will show the public that even if you get away with a crime today, you never know who may come gunning for you in 30 years, when you least expect it.

Also, I sure would like to know if this guy is responsible. Talk about a candidate for the "no-fly" list.

left

 

[leftcoast]

Always shocked: No need to be sorry. I kind of thought you were trying to say that. I just wanted you and other readers to be certain that our story, and suspect, has received a ton of scrutiny by the media, public, etc. Every time we are on a show or interviewed, the media outlet has always verified our story with sources, including our suspects name, to make sure what we presented is true. This doesn't guarantee that he is Cooper, just that our story is true. We have even had the media say, "I just can't believe this case was so easy to solve". We have told this story to private investigators, retired FBI, family, friends, etc., and all could not believe this guy was never checked out.

We both appreciate you interest in this case, as we feel passionate about the case and our suspect.

I will be honest with you and tell you one thing that does upset me. That is when people refer to Cooper as a "folk hero". This hits a nerve!!! As I explained above, he was not a folk hero. He was simply a bank robber in the sky who escaped detection. Bank robbers are not referred to as folk heroes, and neither should this clown.

left

I hope you continue to post on this matter. No hard feelings on this end.

 

[leftcoast]

Hi reportertype: I actually have seen that show. Parts of it were well done, and some of it was very theatrical. Worth watching.

The skydiver, Troy Hartman, did a good job, but I thought the show focused too much on the assumption Cooper landed in the water. As we have discussed here and on earlier pages, it is extremely unlikely Cooper landed in water.

AS for counting, this was done, and is used by professional skydivers to judge when to pull their ripchords. However, this was probably not necessary. Night altimeters have been around for quite a few years. Other possibilities include fastening a small flashlight to your arm, or simply painting the dials of the altimeter flourescent. Skydiver's have been jumping at night for years. It is much more difficult, but, if Cooper had any problems, he would have been found dead on the ground.

Not to keep on pumping my guy, but, he was actually a much more experienced skydiver than Troy Hartman.

I also believe that show has a feature with a treasury department official, who explains that Cooper's money could have made it to circulation, and never been noticed. It was rather interesting.

Thanks for letting us know about show, hopefully, I can catch it again. I have not watched it in about 3 years.

left

ps I believe the conclusion of the show was that the jump could have been successful, but, that the skydiver must have been an expert in order to survive the speed of the plane and the night jump.

 

[lorann]

snip
I will be honest with you and tell you one thing that does upset me. That is when people refer to Cooper as a "folk hero". This hits a nerve!!! As I explained above, he was not a folk hero. He was simply a bank robber in the sky who escaped detection. Bank robbers are not referred to as folk heroes, and neither should this clown.

left

I hope you continue to post on this matter. No hard feelings on this end.

Another reason this guy should be exposed. His life as a criminal, the kind of person he really was, and to point out - sooner or later, you are gonna get caught! After all the work you have done, I look forward to a book or a movie deal for you two. You should get credit for what you have done.

And Scandi - thanks for pointing them here.

 

[reportertype]

Hi reportertype: I actually have seen that show. Parts of it were well done, and some of it was very theatrical. Worth watching.

That's it! Thanks, left. I had forgotten about the water part. I honestly didn't pay any attention to that because I thought the odds of that were nearly nil. Maybe something I had read on here earlier led to believe that.

 

[leftcoast]

Another reason this guy should be exposed. His life as a criminal, the kind of person he really was, and to point out - sooner or later, you are gonna get caught! After all the work you have done, I look forward to a book or a movie deal for you two. You should get credit for what you have done.

And Scandi - thanks for pointing them here.

Thanks Loran: I like the way you think. Our first goal is to solve the case, and get closure for the crew (and a pat on the back wouldn't hurt, if we are right). Then, anything that comes along would be nice. But, in the end, it was the fun of the chase, and potentially figuring out this crime, that has motivated us over the years.

thanks for the encouragement

left

 

[scandi]

Gee, the Discovery channel? Is that channel 7 in Portland? I've never seen that show, but I sure would like to! Does anyone know the name of the show itself? Wish I could rent it!

 

[leftcoast]

Gee, the Discovery channel? Is that channel 7 in Portland? I've never seen that show, but I sure would like to! Does anyone know the name of the show itself? Wish I could rent it!

Scandi:

yes, channel 7 on Portland cable. According to the Discovery website, a show about DB Cooper will be shown on March 15, 2007 at 11:00 am. You may want to double check the time in your areas. Again, this is from the discovery channel.

left

Ps I am not sure which DB Cooper show it is. One would have to assume it is the re-enactment show Reportertype was speaking about. It is called "unsolved history, db cooper"

 

[leftcoast]

Update: Bad News


The discovery channel show about DB Cooper for Thursday March 15, 2007 is on at 11:00am eastern, 8:00 am pacific.

The bad news is that the show is on "Discovery Times", channel 271 for Portland digital subscribers at 8:00am pacific.

On dish network in Portland, the show is on at 7:00am, on channel 192.

So Scandi: Unless you have digital cable, which requires a box in Portland, the show will not be on.

I just thought I would share the information.

left

Ps the name of the show is "unsolved history", the episode is about db cooper.