WA WA - D.B. Cooper hijacking mystery, 24 Nov 1971 - #1

[leftcoast]

Hi Left,

I've made some phone calls this morning, first to KOIN and talked to the news gal. Acc to her they don't do any marketing of their stories and there is no CBS cable affiliate for CBS. She said the best thing is to send a promo 'blurb' to the AP.

They referred me to Moda-Media here in Portland who makes copies of everythihg they have on the news. They sell transcripts, DVD, well anything you want, but you can't buy it from them and send it to a national news company without the approval of KOIN. So anyone who wants to run this story, CNN, MSNBC, FOX etc, have to get KOIN's approval before they run the story.

Then I called FOX News in NYC and talked to a gal. She said the best thing to do if you want FOX to have the 'tip' is to email them at their main website. They have lots of anchors so you can let them decide who will run the story, or you can specify someone in particular.

Since we have one spot left I'm thinking to send a mail to FOX with a link to KOIN's video would be a great way to do this, and possibly also a link to this forum as there is so much info here. That way they can see today's video on yesterday's show and then record the show tonight, which will be the topper, and I am sure very interesting.

I'm writing to you before I email FOX to see what you think. I wish I had a link to the first show's video as it was so excellent. Maybe you want to email them, as you are the one they will want to talk to. But I would be glad to do this as a 'breaking news' email, letting FOX know we think this story is right up their alley and want them to have first crack at it nationally! Then I would give FOX your names and tele #'s. Maybe you have already done this. Maybe you like another cable news source better! ;}

Let me know. I'm going to wait to hear from you before I make a ciggie run to the store! LOL

Hey Scandi

Thanks so much for everything you are doing. I have also emailed other newsgroups and have things working now.

Anything you do would be appreciated. Trust me, the media busines is not fun to be around. KOIN has been very professional, but the others are not.

anyway, we have been contacted by a few national shows, and may be shooting a spot tonight which will air Friday.

Please email anyone you think can help. This is kind of overwhelming, and the press is very, very, pushy, thinking they rule the world. Imagine that.

But, if you email the shows and just reference kOIn and Websleuths, the shows will be able to contact me here.

thanks for our number one fan

left

 

[scandi]

OK

I am going to send a general mail to FOX and let them decide what to do. Geraldo is perfect for a story like this, and would do the most he could to promote the FBI's serious involvement in the case at this time. But his show isn't till Sat.

Scandi

 

[KarlK]

3) Back in 1971, there were steerable parachutes. HE was a "rigger", and made and packed parachutes. personally, I think he brought his own chute onboard that night.

Then why would he have asked for parachutes? I know the reason he asked for more than one parachute was to avoid sabotage as it implied that he may have been intent of jumping with a hostage, but if he already had a parachute I would imagine he would have preferred that the authorities be left unaware that his intent was to jump off the plane rather than have it land somewhere. Asking for parachutes is a dead giveaway so I think he did it because he needed a parachute.

You can somewhat steer almost any parachute as long as long you can see the terrain below you from an altitude of a few hundred feet. You won't be able to score a bullseye but you'll have a pretty good chance at landing on the sort of terrain you were expecting to land on and avoid obvious obstacles, as long as you have carefully planned to touch ground in an area you are very familiar with. At night you can achieve a fairly good vision of the landing area by using a static flare attached to yourself or to your parachute apparatus, the kind of flare every airliner carries. Cooper knew this but for some reason this detail was included with the other elements of the story that were never made public, perhaps at the request of the airline industry weary of seeing their security flaws exposed to the flying public.

I believe these omissions are the reason why Cooper's story sounds so odd. We are expected to believe that a man who carefully planned such a daring exploit suddenly turned into a complete idiot the second he jumped off the plane to an almost certain death, who only seemed to have maybe survived by some sort of miracle. I don't buy it. I believe he knew dang well what sort of terrain he was heading into and that he was equipped to see his landing zone well in advance.

THe feds do know the exact time he jumped, 8:13pm,. due to the change in air pressure in the cabin.

Change of pressure would indicate when he lowered the airstairs, not necessarily when he jumped. There seems to be some confusion in the various reports about when exactly following the deployment of the airstairs did Cooper step off the plane. Perhaps the FBI didn't want to admit they couldn't pinpoint the zone where Cooper may have landed with enough accuracy to warrant a search.

 

[leftcoast]

Karl

thanks for your input. I couldnt' agree with you more. Some good observations. Especially about the flares. Don't forget, he brought what looked like dynamite onto the plane to make it appear to be a bomb. Many thought it was road flares. Maybe, it served a duel purpose.

AS for why he asked for chutes? Maybe he did use one of the supplied chutes. After all, he did know the rigger.

You made an excellent point about how all of a sudden the FBI acted like the hijacker didn't have a brain. He knew exactly where he wanted to jump, and landed within one mile of his landing zone, in my opinion.

One reason you may want to request chutes, is to give the impression that you don't own a parachute or have access to chutes. Since he was a rigger, wouldn't the FBI focus more on active skydivers, riggers, if they knew Cooper had his own chute?

You do make a valid point about why let someone know you are going to jump. HOwever, I'm sure Cooper had a reason. Plus, don't forget, he didnt' know how to lower those stairs, or if they could even be lowered during flight, so, he probably chose to show his hand. Good point.

AS for when Cooper jumped. Here is what happened. The plane was not pressurized. When the aftstair door was open, a light went on in the cockpit alerting the pilot to this. Then, Cooper couldn't get the stairs down because he didnt' know you have to walk on the stairs in order to lower them in flight.

When Cooper did jump at 8:13pm, the aftstairs sprung up and hit the plane, causing a tremendous amount of air flow throughout the cabin. After experimenting with this, the engineers were able to determine that Cooper had in fact jumped at 8:13pm (ps this also happened on the mccoy flight)

Note" it is possible to jump from the aftstairs and not have the stairs hit the plane, but, one has to go to the bottom step, and slowing fall backwards. I've seen it happen on film.

left

I agree that where and when Cooper jumped is not a fact, but an educated guess.

 

[Mountaineer]

Just to answer a previous question by Scandi I believe - yes, Peggy Gilligan is still with the FAA. She is Deputy Administrator for Aviation Safety, located in DC.

 

[j2mirish]

Ya Scandi, the skydiving deaths were one of the first things we learned about him

Who knows what really happened. THe guy destroyed video tapes of the jumps.

HE gets criminal negligent homicide and only gets 6 months in jail. Two people dead, six months. Horrible.

Scandi, he hasn't called us back

Others are trying to call him as we speak

This case is starting to go national.

left

hmmmmmmmm....imagine that !!

 

[leftcoast]

Just to answer a previous question by Scandi I believe - yes, Peggy Gilligan is still with the FAA. She is Deputy Administrator for Aviation Safety, located in DC.

Somehow we should get the news to her.

Why don't I think she will be surprised?

left

 

[leftcoast]

As I recall Cooper asked that the plane not be pressurized and the pilot fly at 10,000 feet - which is, coincidently, the military limit for flight without oxygen due to deterioration of vision at higher altitudes without pressurization or supplemental oxygen. (The civilian/FAA limits are higher.) The rear stairs on the 727 are also outside the pressure vessel and are accessed through a "B" size door in the aft bulkhead, which opens inward like the front and rear doors, so it could not be opened at all if the plane had been pressurized.

However, actually lowering the stairs would have caused a change in pitch trim, probably nose down, that the pilots would have noticed and trimmed out. Also, Cooper's movement onto the stairs & jumping would have caused a nose up-nose down movement as well - a slight one, but it would be there.

And according to the pilots, it made their ears pop when Cooper jumped. At the time, they didn't understand why. But, later experiments proved it was from Cooper exiting the stairs.

left

PS While it is not 100% proof that Cooper jumped at 8:13pm, I would put it at about 99.9%. Those stairs stayed open the entire flight, but, the pilots didn't experience another popping of their ears from the stairs slamming shut again. Hence, 8:13 appears accurate.

If only the pilots had known at the time, the Huey could have made it to north of Portland, instead of chasing the 727 from Portland south to Eugene.

BTW Thanks for the good posts KARLK about skydiving. H-bach has been spinning what a fool Cooper was all of these years. Somehow I dont' think Cooper is a fool.

 

[scandi]

Just to answer a previous question by Scandi I believe - yes, Peggy Gilligan is still with the FAA. She is Deputy Administrator for Aviation Safety, located in DC.

Thanks Mountaineer, Hmmmm, I bet she would take great interest in learning about what KOIN is broadcasting about Mr Ted Mayfield today!

I don't know if he is presently in violation of flying regulations, but at least she would be aprised as to what has been discovered by our 'investigators', and will take it from there.

You mentioned Lars Larsen, Left. I was surprised to hear people listen to him nationally on the radio, although he broadcasts from Portland. He is a dead set conservative and in the last few years has become so eccentric he probably loves the idea he doesn't have to change his mind for anybody!

What Lars should be all upset about is how thie Mr Mayfield has pretty well escaped the wrath of jurisprudence all of these years when it comes to the documented crimes he has done. How can one person be so lucky? He is the shim-sham man, I think, with the gift of gab.

Have you noticed how he talks, or answers questions? In very simple terms. He doesn't tell anyone anything they dont need to know I think, except when his ego gets in the way. I couldn't believe he said he had jumped 8,000 some odd times. A self appointed expert who as much said the jump was simple - all you would need is a stop watch to time the event!

Scandi

 

[scandi]

Somehow we should get the news to her.

Why don't I think she will be surprised?

left

The only link KOIN has up right now is a promo for tonight - real short. I'm thinking unless you have a good meaty video from KOIN to send her Left, as soon as tonights show is put on their home page, it would be a great way to have her learn about it, along with a note of course.

Should be easy to get an email address for her in DC.

 

[leftcoast]

Your are right Scandi

But, when he called the fBI that night, he told H-bach that "there is no way the hijacker could know where he was given the rain, wind, clouds, and there is no way the hijacker could land uninjured."

"he also stated that there isn't enough money in the world for him to duplicate that jump"

Doesn't that contradict everything he says in the video on KOIN.

I still can't get over him knowing the exact porosity rating on both parachutes given to Cooper. I'll bet you him and EC are the only living human beings who know this.

left

ps I know I'm biased, but, he sure does seem to enjoy talking about that night. AS if , it was a highlite of his life. sticking it to the FAA, FBI, and those who he think wronged him

Don't forget, in Seattle, on the ground, Cooper states" I'll show them", and threatens to blow up the plane. Who is them? FAA, FBI. I think so.

 

[leftcoast]

The only link KOIN has up right now is a promo for tonight - real short. I'm thinking unless you have a good meaty video from KOIN to send her Left, as soon as tonights show is put on their home page, it would be a great way to have her learn about it, along with a note of course.

Should be easy to get an email address for her in DC.

Scandi"

Last nights show is still available on the second screen. You need to play the tease, and a second screen comes on with the video.

I don't know if I will email her or not. IF the FAA or FBI doesn't get a clue after the KOIN segments, and the national news shows that are going to be running this story, then, they are clueless.

somehow, I know the Police, fBI etc, monitor all news stations. I know for a fact that police, etc, especially the military in DC monitors CNN, Fox, and others constantly. Somehow, I think this show is headed to cnn. I know it is going national on the next day.

left

 

[leftcoast]

Interesting. It does make sense, in that the air load on those stairs at 100+ knots would be considerable and the sudden removal of his weight from the end of them would make them jump up.

Yes, Adnoid, I actually have a picture of the experiment.

The feds flew the same plane Cooper was in, and had a plane taking pictures from the side.

Two army personnel opened the stairs under the same condition as Cooper, They then pushed a 180 pound box of weight onto the stairs, and recorded the difference in the instruments.

Once the box was knocked off the bottom step, the aftstairs flung up and temporarily closed and this caused a sudden rush of air pressure into the plane and cockpit.

It was the same exact ear popping that the pilots experienced. It also was registered in the black boxes.

left

 

[leftcoast]

Well, here she is - I think. Is "Peggy" a shortened form of "Margaret"?

Good job Adnoid:

I wonder if "Mountaineer" has the connections to find Ms. Gilligan and get her the scoop.

left

 

[Mountaineer]

I had found that Adnoid - but was hoping for an email address. I thought I would email her what we have first - and then see where to go from there. That way if one of us could talk to her - at least she would have gotten the email and it wouldn't be so out of the blue.

I will keep checking and see what I can find out.

 

[leftcoast]

Well, I did find this (it must be her, it's the only "Gilligan" listed in the FAA contacts):

Peggy Gilligan

Office Phone: 202-267-7804

Physical Address: Orville Wright Bldg. (FOB10A

FAA National Headquarters
800 Independence Ave., SW
Washington, DC 20591
Room Number: 1000W
Desk Location: Mail Stop:

It's too late to call today - do you want to tomorrow? If not, I'll call her.

Adnoid:

I would really like it if you called. I'll tell you why. I'm not afraid to call her, but I don't want it to look like a witch hunt by me.

Do you agree?

If not, I'll give her a buzz.

I have a feeling he threatened one of them. He told us a story where a male FAA agent starting wearing a gun because of threats. He was the same man who was investigating him. Do FAA guys normally wear guns?

thanks for the help

left

 

[scandi]

Adnoid, you are amazing! I am so impressed at your knack to find anything!

This thread though has brought out some interesting posters. It has been fun to watch.

Left, when you said "I still can't get over him knowing the exact porosity rating on both parachutes given to Cooper. I'll bet you him and EC are the only living human beings who know this.", did he tell you this or when did it come out? On the plane when he got the chutes?

If he knew the porosity and EC was the only other person that knew this, why couldn't the FBI use that as Circumstantial Evicence in a case? I can't remember, is EC still alive?

Mountaineer, it has been great to have you join in, and nice to meet you too KarlK!


Left, have you talked to the stewardess that was so traumatized?

 

[scandi]

WOW, I just had the neatest experience~!

I decided I wanted to know if our local FBI office is interested at all or even knows about what is going on. So I got the number and called and a very nice gal actually answered the phone on the second ring. I told her I was calling about D.B.Cooper and was wondering if they had a team working on the case. She said, Why yes we do if you can hold for a minute I'll connect you!

In a flash this man was on the line, and I told him I was just a concerned citizen wanting to know if the local office knew about the expose KOIN was doing on D.B. Cooper. He said Yes, we are fully aware of it and then of course I laughed and asked if they were re-examining the case. And he said, yes, we're right on top of it!


PS: I got a really good feeling about that call. The quick service when I mentioned the name, the guy letting me know the case is very alive. There might just be more than we know
happening now! Don't you wish you were a little bug in the local office of the FBI tonight? lolo
So after he told me that I gave a little chuckle and said that made me feel real good, and I heard him laughing with me. It was neat!

 

[Mountaineer]

That is very cool Scandi!! I wonder how many calls they have gotten on it this week.

 

[Mountaineer]

Oh yes - I would love to hear what they are saying. Hopefully Left will be hearing from them soon!!

Left - you should have come to us sooner - maybe you wouldn't have had to spend 7 years on it - we could crack it quicker with all of our minds together :woohoo:

Although...I haven't contributed much - but I sure am loving it!