WA WA - D.B. Cooper hijacking mystery, 24 Nov 1971 - #1

[Old Dominion]

Wow interesting observations. You know all the big ones that people got away with had someone on the inside.

:bang: Very good point Mysticchic!

There is no level of stupidity or incompetence that can explain not snapping a pic of Ted and a few of his students and putting it in front of Tina and Flo. None whatsoever.

OD

 

[Old Dominion]

WOW is right Mysticchik, I have read OD's post several times. He says ". . . .And why call the FBI general line and get a dispatcher or service rep when you can have Himmelsbach's direct line in your pocket?" I had always thought he dialed the regular FBI line and asked for Himmelsbach.

That is such a provocative thought in this case, I can't believe I am just now hearing it!

Scandi,

I may be wrong on that one. Left may be able to answer that. It doesn't really matter though, dial a direct line or ask for an individual by name. The result is the same. Either way he intended to contact H-bach and no one else.

OD

 

[AlwaysShocked]

But, again, my question would be WHY? Why would H-bach have not wanted to catch the culprit at that time?

I can see why he doesn't want to NOW admit that Mayfield is or could be the culprit, but why THEN?

By the way, here's a link that shows the FBI sketch of db cooper. Quite a difference from the above-linked "Bozo sketch", especially in the depiction of the neck area. Leftcoast, I take it Ted Mayfiled has the short, squat type of neck?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D._B._Cooper

Upon reading the FBI wanted poster for the first time:

1.) What is with the "Complexion: olive, latin appearance"?

2.) Voice: no particular accent, possibly from Midwest section of U.S.
(Did the culprit use some phrase while talking to a flight attendant that is generally used in the mid-west but not in the Pacific Northwest? Did he pronounce a word differntly than those who live in the Pacific Northwest pronounce it? I am talking about how people pronounce words like "route" - rhymes with "toot" or rhymes with "clout".)

3.) db cooper would not have made the cover of Gentleman's Quarterly. He wore brown shoes with a black suit that day! Wonder if those were actually a type of hiking boot?

For the amusement of all, here is a fun little quiz about word pronounciation: http://www.angelfire.com/ak2/intelligencerreport/yankee_dixie_quiz.html

 

[leftcoast]

Scandi,

I may be wrong on that one. Left may be able to answer that. It doesn't really matter though, dial a direct line or ask for an individual by name. The result is the same. Either way he intended to contact H-bach and no one else.

OD

The exact quote is "He (Ted) insisted on talking to me". Which brings up some good points.

First, the timing of the call. Almost 1 1/2 hours after Cooper jumped.

Second, why couldn't he relay his "information" to another agent. Maybe because he knew the other agent would get suspicious,

Third, he knew if he feds started looking at him, with the armed robbery conviction, living next to the airport, losing his job, being broke, etc., they would have starting zeroing in.

Fourth, he was dying to know if the feds suspected him, exactly what type of description the girls gave of him, and if the feds still thought he was on the plane

Fifth, if the feds were on to him, he could have simply hopped into his plane, with the money, and skipped town

sixth, he had to know where the feds thought he jumped, so, that he could hide the money in a place where they wouldn't be searching.

on and on.'

That is why you are taught as a police officer, FBI agent, etc, to suspect everyone, and never, ever, release information to anybody, especially a convicted armed robber,who should have been the number one suspect.

Think about it logically. What information did Ted give to H-bach that night that was so important that he "had" to talk personally to Ralph, and nobody else? Answer, absolutely none. Not only did Ted not help, but he stared the investigator into thinking there was no way Cooper could know where he was when he jumped, which Ted even admits today is total b.s. He told us, a simple stopwatch will do.

Plus, Why is Ted lying, and telling us the FBI called him four times that night, and that he "doesnt' know H-bach? Never heard of him.

Plus, I asked Mayfield, I said we have Cooper, should we turn him in? Mayfield says "no, I wouldn't, somebody might try to hurt him".

lol

left

 

[leftcoast]

:bang: Very good point Mysticchic!

There is no level of stupidity or incompetence that can explain not snapping a pic of Ted and a few of his students and putting it in front of Tina and Flo. None whatsoever.

OD

Agree, especially since very, very few people had the skills necessary to pull this crime off, and get away.

left

 

[leftcoast]

But, again, my question would be WHY? Why would H-bach have not wanted to catch the culprit at that time?

I can see why he doesn't want to NOW admit that Mayfield is or could be the culprit, but why THEN?

By the way, here's a link that shows the FBI sketch of db cooper. Quite a difference from the above-linked "Bozo sketch", especially in the depiction of the neck area. Leftcoast, I take it Ted Mayfiled has the short, squat type of neck?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D._B._Cooper

Upon reading the FBI wanted poster for the first time:

1.) What is with the "Complexion: olive, latin appearance"?

2.) Voice: no particular accent, possibly from Midwest section of U.S.
(Did the culprit use some phrase while talking to a flight attendant that is generally used in the mid-west but not in the Pacific Northwest? Did he pronounce a word differntly than those who live in the Pacific Northwest pronounce it? I am talking about how people pronounce words like "route" - rhymes with "toot" or rhymes with "clout".)

3.) db cooper would not have made the cover of Gentleman's Quarterly. He wore brown shoes with a black suit that day! Wonder if those were actually a type of hiking boot?

For the amusement of all, here is a fun little quiz about word pronounciation: http://www.angelfire.com/ak2/intelligencerreport/yankee_dixie_quiz.html

Right, he has the short, stocky, muscular look.

I would say he is a 8 out of 10, when you compare the "bozo" sketch to a picture from 1974. Which I think is pretty amazing, given 17 years had past when the sketch was made.

Either way, Flo said the first two sketches did not look Cooper.

I will tell you this. At our lunch with H-bach, his first response when I said
"Mayfield" was the dirtiest look I have ever received. If was as if I was a "corporal" asking a "general" about his war plan.

After the initial shock, and when the other FBI agent starting quesioning H-bach, he had a deer in the headlight look.

He said the following

"it sounded like Ted", which means he was convinced that there was zero way somebody could jump at 8:13pm, and get to a phone at 10pm.

And that he never, ever verified to see if it was "TED" on that phone. I also asked if he knew where Ted was calling from, H-bach said "no".

Plus, H-bach said, "i've never known Ted to smoke, have you"? and "he didn't sound like a guy who just hijacked a plane"

I then asked "do you know where TEd was from 2-10pm that night", he said " NO ", I almost had a heart attack.

FBI school, day one, always, always, get an alibi.

Day two, never, ever, give out details out a crime to the public, especially a "convicted armed robber". Hello, anyone home?

left

 

[Old Dominion]

But, again, my question would be WHY? Why would H-bach have not wanted to catch the culprit at that time?

Shocked,

There are several I'm working on. Here's something to think about. Had Cooper been caught in short order, H-back would be living pension check to pension check. Presently he wouldn't even notice if his pension check never cleared the bank. H-bach is *not* stupid. This is what is troubling.

OD

 

[Old Dominion]

Left,

2 Questions.

Were all the KOIN segments shot/completed before the first one aired?

Did Koin ever go over with H-back what they wanted to talk to him about or did they just tell him they had a segment about DB?


Thanks

OD

 

[leftcoast]

Left,

2 Questions.

Were all the KOIN segments shot/completed before the first one aired?

Did Koin ever go over with H-back what they wanted to talk to him about or did they just tell him they had a segment about DB?


Thanks

OD

Yes, our interview was done in November 2006.

Ted was interviewed on Wednesday April 11th, and H-bach Friday April 13, 2007.

All interviews were completed before the first show aired.

As for H-bach, I don't know, I wasn't privy to that.

I don't know if KOIN told H-bach in advance that they wanted to talk to H=bach about Mayfield or just db Cooper.

Don't forget, H-bach was well aware of the KOIN report they did on Cooper back in November which aired on KOIN.

H-bach was interviewed by a local newspaper reporter, related to the KOIN story. So, I know for 100% certainty that H-bach watched that show, and remembered us from 2001.

On the kOIN show in November, we did not disclose the name of the suspect.

However, when the local newspaper reporter called H-bach, believe it or not, Himmelsbach gave up the name of our suspect to the reporter. Can you believe it? He put us in jeopardy, since it was not public, nor do I know if Ted saw that piece.

left

 

[leftcoast]

I did receive a response from Donahue

He states that it is "his" story and not "my" story, and he would not be a good reporter if he didn't show both sides. I agree to show both sides, but, it is my story, I'm the one who gave him the story. He didn't come up with it on his own. Heck, I had to give me a DOB.

As for Ted, this is interesting.

Ted and H-bach knew each other for a couple of years before the hijacking.

As stated earlier, Ted ran his skydiving school, at night and weekends, out of the Aurora airport.

Continuously, Ted would cut off other pilots, once almost hitting h-bach, and that is why he was "KICKED" out of the Aurora airport.

H-bach and the FAA played a part in Ted being kicked out of the airport. Can you say revenge?

Funny, Ted told us he left on his own accord, because Aurora got too busy. Ted also claims he has never met H-bach, never heard that name. Too bad we have it on tape.

Donahue also said that "attornies" had nothing to do with the last day.

Donahue said he liked our story, and that we did a good job, and should have an interesting and marketable book.

Donahue is also caught up on the item where Cooper smoked, and supposedly Ted didn't. He also said Ted is a couple inches short.

You all know my answers. Cooper was seated. Nobody weighed or measured Cooper. And some people only smoke when they drink, are nervous, or it could also be to throw off investigators.

Saying you know for certain that someone doesnt' smoke, is like saying "I know for certain he would never cheat on his wife, he would never strike his wife, he would never do drugs", etc. Everybody has secrets, and that includes each of us on this board.

I had a friend once who would only smoke when we went to the clubs. He would smoke, then quit, smoke, then quit. Many of his friends and family had no idea he was a smoker. He never carried cigarettes.

left

ps Question: IF you only met someone a handful of times, and they were always skydiving, piloting, etc, how would you know if they smoked? How in the heck can you smoke skydiving, and what kind of idiot smokes while flying a plane?

 

[Old Dominion]

As for Ted, this is interesting.

Ted and H-bach knew each other for a couple of years before the hijacking.

This is huge... Huge! I knew there was a connection. How long have you known about this? It's all starting to come together.

Funny, Ted told us he left on his own accord, because Aurora got too busy. Ted also claims he has never met H-bach, never heard that name. Too bad we have it on tape.

The worms are starting to unravel. They probably never thought it would come to this.

Donahue is also caught up on the item where Cooper smoked, and supposedly Ted didn't. He also said Ted is a couple inches short.

Ted isn't "swarthy" either, but the physical "disqualifications" are moot for a very good reason...the "swarthy theorem".

ps Question: IF you only met someone a handful of times, and they were always skydiving, piloting, etc, how would you know if they smoked? How in the heck can you smoke skydiving, and what kind of idiot smokes while flying a plane?

When you're looking for reasons to eliminate a suspect...you find and justify them. And...when you won't check the upstairs study for the missing keys because you've eliminated it you'll have to give them up as lost. It becomes VERY clear that you don't want to find those keys.

OD

LC Pls Check your email soon

 

[leftcoast]

A.S.

With regard to your question:

I honestly don't know if H-bach looked the other way, I sure hope not, and I doubt it. But, one does have to consider it.

Food for thought:

When I asked H-bach what he thought Ted did for a living, H-bach was under the assumption he ran his skydiving business for a living.

I think H-bach assumed (ya know what they say) that Ted was wealthy, since he has use of a plane, a business, etc.

H-bach was shocked when I told him that Ted was actually a local truck driver who stocked the shelves of grocery stores with 7-up products.

H-bach was also shocked to learn Ted lived across from the airport. When I informed him of this, H-bach gave the strangest response, H-bach said


"Well, if Ted lived across from the airport, then that would have been the responsibility of the FBI agents who were in charge of investigating the perimeter of the airport". Huh.

So, h-bach, what you are saying is that he "should" have been a suspect? Is that how one would interpret that remark?

left

 

[leftcoast]

Dominion

I first learned about Ted and H-bach's connection from the beginning, back in 2000.

You are right. IF you want to find a reason to eliminate someone, it is easy to do so in your mind.

For example, the Unabomber does not look like the sketch. Nor did he live where the packages were mailed from

Green River Killer: He didn't smoke, and passed the polygraph, plus he was married. Eliminated by LE back in 1983, went on to kill 20 more people, no apology from police, none.

I agree. Every single suspect has something or other which points away from them. That is why it is "called beyond a reasonable doubt", and not 100% proof, because that standard is not attainable.

left

 

[Old Dominion]

I'm shocked. IIRC even over a year ago on another forum I had asked about a possible connection, association, club etc. because I have never ever believed that incompetence was the root of H-bach's 10 year peanut chewing record.

There was a reason I asked you about H-bach and the KOIN interviews. Even before I posted my first post on this forum I saw something in his portion of that segment that I found odd or out of character for H-bach.

Maybe you're not seeing this the same way I am.

OD

 

[leftcoast]

I'm shocked. IIRC even over a year ago on another forum I had asked about a possible connection, association, club etc. because I have never ever believed that incompetence was the root of H-bach's 10 year peanut chewing record.

There was a reason I asked you about H-bach and the KOIN interviews. Even before I posted my first post on this forum I saw something in his portion of that segment that I found odd or out of character for H-bach.

This still isn't clear to you?

OD

No, I guess maybe I am too close.

Your thought, my ideas, and my buddies, plus adnoids, and everybody else is why this case has progressed.

there is a reason why police assign two man teams to homicides. To prevent tunnel vision, and corruption.

I must admit, I am dying to know what you are thinking Dominion.

left

 

[leftcoast]

Dominion

Are you talking about H-bach's quote that "Mayfield would have been a logical suspect, and that he had a criminal record "?..

Still looking for the email.

left

 

[Kgram]

I saw the segment on the Tampa area stations IE is on at 7 and 7:30 pm here

 

[Old Dominion]

No, I guess maybe I am too close.

Your thought, my ideas, and my buddies, plus adnoids, and everybody else is why this case has progressed.

there is a reason why police assign two man teams to homicides. To prevent tunnel vision, and corruption.

I must admit, I am dying to know what you are thinking Dominion.

left

Apologies for the last statement. I've change it. Sometimes I type faster than I think and I don't realize that I've stated something in a way I shouldn't have.

Let me just ask a question LC. How would you describe H-bach's general demeanor in most of your interviews and what you've seen of him on TV? I ask this because I've got my own opinion and gen. character set but I haven't the exposure to him that you have. I know what you've said but I thought I'd just ask again.

OD

 

[leftcoast]

Apologies for the last statement. I've change it. Sometimes I type faster than I think and I don't realize that I've stated something in a way I shouldn't have.

Let me just ask a question LC. How would you describe H-bach's general demeanor in most of your interviews and what you've seen of him on TV? I ask this because I've got my own opinion and gen. character set but I haven't the exposure to him that you have. I know what you've said but I thought I'd just ask again.

OD

I think the comment you are talking about is the following":

Ralph Himmelsbach " I guess I'll just have to deal with the fact that I'm his alibi".

That is NOT a definitive statement one would expect from a FBI agent. IT seems like someone who knows maybe he passed on the big one.

Is that what you are talking about?

As for h-bach, only met him once, and talked on the phone once.

WE had lunch for 2 1/2 hours, and Ralph talked for 2 of the hours. He loves to talk about the case, and seemed genuinely interested in solving it.

I would call him talkative, not overly agressive, not a good listener, but, a very nice man.

I actually liked Ralph, and thought he didn't have it in him to be a crooked agent. Sorry, but, I kind of felt that he came from money, and didn't have the "street smarts" of an agent.

Is that what you are looking for?

left

 

[scandi]

When I heard Himmelsbach say "He would have been a very logical suspect" I noticed a kind of jocular tone in his voice, and he had kind of a grin on his face, and then right away he was interrupted by Donahue who said something like " . .except for the phone call . ."

I think Himmelsbach has had a few strokes, unless he has always had that pattern of speech.

Hey Left, thanks for the scan of the sketch from '88. You have seen it up close and think it very much resembles Mayfield, right?