It's not unusual for snagged objects in a river, especially a large river, to be cut loose in springtime when the snowmelt fed waters come rushing down at 4-5 times their normal volume with tremendous force sending even large debris tumbling down for miles until the water level lowers again, only to start over the following year.
WA WA - D.B. Cooper hijacking mystery, 24 Nov 1971 - #2
- Thread starter chicoliving
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It's not unusual for snagged objects in a river, especially a large river, to be cut loose in springtime when the snowmelt fed waters come rushing down at 4-5 times their normal volume with tremendous force sending even large debris tumbling down for miles until the water level lowers again, only to start over the following year.
if you can float a bag of money, over any time period, from
the Mashougal river to the beach where the money was found.
We're talking paper and canvas. Not styrofoam. Wet money sinks.
Where's the flotation? it would scrape along the bottom sure.
But 25-30 miles. No way.
Remember his ticket was Portland to Seattle.
The pilot's late recollection about I-5 probably means there was visibility of I-5 regardless of the cloud cover stories.
Portland and Vancouver are right across from each other.
Assume that they'd be visible from the air.
The simplest explanation is what one should grasp. Not some convoluted jump zone theory based on data of unknown accuracy.
The jump was near where the money was found. There's no reason there's any better guess.
I could ask you: why do you think any other jump zone has better credibility?
(i'd note that it's one thing to send debris like logs and rocks for miles. It's another thing to send a canvas bag with paper)
the Mashougal river to the beach where the money was found.
We're talking paper and canvas. Not styrofoam. Wet money sinks.
Where's the flotation? it would scrape along the bottom sure.
But 25-30 miles. No way.
Remember his ticket was Portland to Seattle.
The pilot's late recollection about I-5 probably means there was visibility of I-5 regardless of the cloud cover stories.
Portland and Vancouver are right across from each other.
Assume that they'd be visible from the air.
The simplest explanation is what one should grasp. Not some convoluted jump zone theory based on data of unknown accuracy.
The jump was near where the money was found. There's no reason there's any better guess.
I could ask you: why do you think any other jump zone has better credibility?
(i'd note that it's one thing to send debris like logs and rocks for miles. It's another thing to send a canvas bag with paper)
Every time I look at any data from that night, the reported information is amazingly wrong, or has some degree of uncertainty, or is tainted with the FBI's (I think the lead agent's) attempt to make it sound like it was a crazy stunt with no chance of survival.
It was widely reported that he jumped out with the temp 7 degrees below zero (with a crazy windchill..they say 70 below zero) but that it was raining. That sure sounds like no survival possibilty. It also sounds like propaganda from the FBI.
Those two things (temp/rain) don't add up. Yet they're widely reported, even on web pages today..
Why? Because it was probably/maybe 7 degrees below zero...Celsius!
When you look at the min records for Vancouver, they are above zero F. So it couldn't have been below zero Fahrenheit.
The record min for Vancouver WA is apparently only 25F/-3C in 1977 (not sure what date)
Unless they were talking about the temp at 10,000 ft. But that wouldn't matter, since he wouldn't be at those altitudes for long. The ground temperature would be the important thing for survival.
So I dug some more..here's the data from 11/24/1971 at Portland, OR (which is just by Vancouver, WA)
I got it from the US National Climatic Data Center by going thru the pages at
http://www7.ncdc.noaa.gov/CDO/cdoselect.cmd?datasetabbv=GSOD
(you can get the data yourself by starting at that url)
this says min of 45F and max of 51F that day in Portland.
I say, that the whole thing about his shoes is bogus. The temps were fine, he jumped near vancouver, and he actually had the right gear for the rain...an overcoat!
<YEARMODA>19711124</YEARMODA>
<TEMP> 48.1</TEMP>
<TEMP_CNT>8</TEMP_CNT>
<DEWP> 43.3</DEWP>
<DEWP_CNT>8</DEWP_CNT>
<SLP>1013.5</SLP>
<SLP_CNT>8</SLP_CNT>
<STP>1012.3</STP>
<STP_CNT>8</STP_CNT>
<VIS> 14.5</VIS>
<VIS_CNT>8</VIS_CNT>
<WDSP> 10.8</WDSP>
<WDSP_CNT>8</WDSP_CNT>
<MXSPD> 14.0</MXSPD>
<GUST>999.9</GUST>
<MAXTEMP> 51.1</MAXTEMP>
<MAXFLAG>*</MAXFLAG>
<MINTEMP> 45.0</MINTEMP>
<MINFLAG>*</MINFLAG>
<PRCP>99.99</PRCP>
<PRCPFLAG NULL="TRUE"/>
<SNDP>999.9</SNDP>
<FRSHTT>010000</FRSHTT>
<STATION_ID>99999924229</STATION_ID>
It was widely reported that he jumped out with the temp 7 degrees below zero (with a crazy windchill..they say 70 below zero) but that it was raining. That sure sounds like no survival possibilty. It also sounds like propaganda from the FBI.
Those two things (temp/rain) don't add up. Yet they're widely reported, even on web pages today..
Why? Because it was probably/maybe 7 degrees below zero...Celsius!
When you look at the min records for Vancouver, they are above zero F. So it couldn't have been below zero Fahrenheit.
The record min for Vancouver WA is apparently only 25F/-3C in 1977 (not sure what date)
Unless they were talking about the temp at 10,000 ft. But that wouldn't matter, since he wouldn't be at those altitudes for long. The ground temperature would be the important thing for survival.
So I dug some more..here's the data from 11/24/1971 at Portland, OR (which is just by Vancouver, WA)
I got it from the US National Climatic Data Center by going thru the pages at
http://www7.ncdc.noaa.gov/CDO/cdoselect.cmd?datasetabbv=GSOD
(you can get the data yourself by starting at that url)
this says min of 45F and max of 51F that day in Portland.
I say, that the whole thing about his shoes is bogus. The temps were fine, he jumped near vancouver, and he actually had the right gear for the rain...an overcoat!
<YEARMODA>19711124</YEARMODA>
<TEMP> 48.1</TEMP>
<TEMP_CNT>8</TEMP_CNT>
<DEWP> 43.3</DEWP>
<DEWP_CNT>8</DEWP_CNT>
<SLP>1013.5</SLP>
<SLP_CNT>8</SLP_CNT>
<STP>1012.3</STP>
<STP_CNT>8</STP_CNT>
<VIS> 14.5</VIS>
<VIS_CNT>8</VIS_CNT>
<WDSP> 10.8</WDSP>
<WDSP_CNT>8</WDSP_CNT>
<MXSPD> 14.0</MXSPD>
<GUST>999.9</GUST>
<MAXTEMP> 51.1</MAXTEMP>
<MAXFLAG>*</MAXFLAG>
<MINTEMP> 45.0</MINTEMP>
<MINFLAG>*</MINFLAG>
<PRCP>99.99</PRCP>
<PRCPFLAG NULL="TRUE"/>
<SNDP>999.9</SNDP>
<FRSHTT>010000</FRSHTT>
<STATION_ID>99999924229</STATION_ID>
They are visible, the metro area's glow can be seen through a cloud coverage. However I doubt Cooper would have wanted to land near a city. The current theory puts the landing zone 30 to 50 miles northeast of PDX. Since we don't know exactly what Scott told the FBI in 1980, and they won't say, it's anyone's guess as to how they came to that conclusion. Personally I'm not sure someone jumping off the airstairs would be felt by the crew of a 50-ton+ aircraft so I think the FBI may not have a clue where Cooper jumped, I just think he wouldn't have jumped near a brightly lit area.
That said I don't think he jumped in total darkness either, he needed some point of reference (small town, road or lit landmark) to orient himself once on the ground. Someone who plans such a stunt would likely not leave his fate in the hands of luck during the final and most crucial part of the scheme. In my perspective the ideal plan would be for a hijacker to convince everyone he jumped at some remote point while the actual jump would take place elsewhere, after all once lowered the stairs would dangle out for the remainder of the flight. In such a case throwing a bag of money off the plane *could* be a diversion technique in case anyone finds it. It's far-fetched but the whole scheme was far-fetched from the start.
It is likely that Cooper was local to the area. No reason to make the plan more risky by doing it all in a geographical area you're unfamilar with.
The plan started in Portland, and ended near Vancouver.
The black tie and tie clip. He was comfortable with an engineers image.
He had a fake bomb, but knew enough to just flash it cause he knew it didn't look good enough.
All the attention to detail points to an engineer, probably working in the Beavorton, OR area at that time. Tektronix? No.Intel wasn't there yet in 1971..maybe in Seattle or Bellevue, WA..working for Boeing and got laid off?
The actual jump was a minor detail. Flashy yes, but the entire plan has an engineer's attention to detail (trying not to leave any evidence etc...The 4 chute plan...sunglasses in the NW in the fall...
He didn't even worry about his leather shoes because he knew the probable landing zone. Portland/Vancouver. The rain didn't scare him. He lived in it. The stuff that made him seem stupid? They just weren't issues. Because he knew more..he didn't need to mitigate those issues
He worried more about reserve chutes than shoes. Only an engineer would think a reserve chute would add safety to that jump. A guy giving it a last ditch try would just go with the main and trust the odds.
Only an engineer would still wear a clip on tie in his 40's. It was no disguise. He was a tie wearer. That's why he had a tie clip. An engineer would use a tie clip and clip on tie.
So which J.C. Penney did the tie come from. Well he didn't plan on leaving it. So he didn't try to hide where it came from. It came from the store near where he lived.
In 1971, a recession, high costs on the new 747 jumbo jet and cancellation of the planned supersonic transport caused the "Boeing Depression": the company cut its employment in the Puget Sound area from 80,400 to 37,200 in two years, prompting the famous billboard that read, "Will the last person leaving Seattle turn out the lights."
He was probably laid off in Mar. '71. 6 months of no job and the plan coming together. Unmarried in his '40s.
There was one thing that had to go absolutely right on the hijack plan.
The 727's aft door had to be able to open in flight. You could wing everything else. But not that. That had to work.
A detail man, wouldn't execute the plan, without somehow verifying that possibility beforehand. A Boeing engineer would be able to get that info. A laid-off Boeing engineer would be motivated. Both for money (no job) and against his employer.
You wouldn't have to know how to lower the stairs. But you'd want to know that it would be possible. And you'd be comfortable talking about flap angles and air speed.
The plan solved two problems. Money and showing them that he was smarter than them...and didn't deserve to be treated like s***.
Everything the FBI did was horribly biased to a point of view from the start. They proved that their point of view was most likely wrong, because nothing came up from it.
The right answer for cold cases is always the one that people don't want to believe. It's also always the simplest one that matches the data, once you toss out the bad data.
The plan started in Portland, and ended near Vancouver.
The black tie and tie clip. He was comfortable with an engineers image.
He had a fake bomb, but knew enough to just flash it cause he knew it didn't look good enough.
All the attention to detail points to an engineer, probably working in the Beavorton, OR area at that time. Tektronix? No.Intel wasn't there yet in 1971..maybe in Seattle or Bellevue, WA..working for Boeing and got laid off?
The actual jump was a minor detail. Flashy yes, but the entire plan has an engineer's attention to detail (trying not to leave any evidence etc...The 4 chute plan...sunglasses in the NW in the fall...
He didn't even worry about his leather shoes because he knew the probable landing zone. Portland/Vancouver. The rain didn't scare him. He lived in it. The stuff that made him seem stupid? They just weren't issues. Because he knew more..he didn't need to mitigate those issues
He worried more about reserve chutes than shoes. Only an engineer would think a reserve chute would add safety to that jump. A guy giving it a last ditch try would just go with the main and trust the odds.
Only an engineer would still wear a clip on tie in his 40's. It was no disguise. He was a tie wearer. That's why he had a tie clip. An engineer would use a tie clip and clip on tie.
So which J.C. Penney did the tie come from. Well he didn't plan on leaving it. So he didn't try to hide where it came from. It came from the store near where he lived.
In 1971, a recession, high costs on the new 747 jumbo jet and cancellation of the planned supersonic transport caused the "Boeing Depression": the company cut its employment in the Puget Sound area from 80,400 to 37,200 in two years, prompting the famous billboard that read, "Will the last person leaving Seattle turn out the lights."
He was probably laid off in Mar. '71. 6 months of no job and the plan coming together. Unmarried in his '40s.
There was one thing that had to go absolutely right on the hijack plan.
The 727's aft door had to be able to open in flight. You could wing everything else. But not that. That had to work.
A detail man, wouldn't execute the plan, without somehow verifying that possibility beforehand. A Boeing engineer would be able to get that info. A laid-off Boeing engineer would be motivated. Both for money (no job) and against his employer.
You wouldn't have to know how to lower the stairs. But you'd want to know that it would be possible. And you'd be comfortable talking about flap angles and air speed.
The plan solved two problems. Money and showing them that he was smarter than them...and didn't deserve to be treated like s***.
Everything the FBI did was horribly biased to a point of view from the start. They proved that their point of view was most likely wrong, because nothing came up from it.
The right answer for cold cases is always the one that people don't want to believe. It's also always the simplest one that matches the data, once you toss out the bad data.
Yes Snowmman, on another forum somebody looked up the temperatures for that date for Portland and a city in Washington, Olympia I believe.
The low in Olympia was 40 degrees.
Not exactly killer weather.
There is a crowd that will climb Mt. Everest to proclaim Cooper could not have survived. Very odd. Very odd indeed.
The cold killed him.
The trees killed him.
He landed in water and drowned.
He got scared, didn't pull.
Chute failed.
The pull was too hard.
The pull was too complicated.
He tumbled out of control.
If I was the FBI I would triple check the flight path of the airplane.
The low in Olympia was 40 degrees.
Not exactly killer weather.
There is a crowd that will climb Mt. Everest to proclaim Cooper could not have survived. Very odd. Very odd indeed.
The cold killed him.
The trees killed him.
He landed in water and drowned.
He got scared, didn't pull.
Chute failed.
The pull was too hard.
The pull was too complicated.
He tumbled out of control.
If I was the FBI I would triple check the flight path of the airplane.
I forgot about all those engineering layoffs. Not a good time.
I have never understood how he could board in Portland and jump just north of Portland and yet that isn't considered a major clue. The answer is given that it just happened that way. A coincidence.
I have never understood how he could board in Portland and jump just north of Portland and yet that isn't considered a major clue. The answer is given that it just happened that way. A coincidence.
Viewing this newsclip from the evening news that night puts my mind in the perspective of the times. It's amazing it's available. Bill Curtis is in there reporting as a young guy. Cronkite reports the wires calling him "master criminal" ...so imagine the FBI reacting to stuff like that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5wARW8FcF0
Funny how the crew wouldn't talk to the reporters.
People didn't want to believe the guy could be successful. Remember the country was going to hell then.
Hijackings were common then. You could imagine wanting to discourage more.
There were hundreds of political hijackings. I can see how a story starts getting put together that makes Cooper out to be stupid and the hijack a crazy stunt. Remember all the other stupid stories that were foisted on people during that era. It's just how the government worked then.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5wARW8FcF0
Funny how the crew wouldn't talk to the reporters.
People didn't want to believe the guy could be successful. Remember the country was going to hell then.
Hijackings were common then. You could imagine wanting to discourage more.
There were hundreds of political hijackings. I can see how a story starts getting put together that makes Cooper out to be stupid and the hijack a crazy stunt. Remember all the other stupid stories that were foisted on people during that era. It's just how the government worked then.
I was just reading the reports from 1980 when the money was found. The bits and pieces were strewn about. Some were found with remnants of the rubber bands still there. But I also note that they said money was found in a bag.
I don't think there were multiple bags. Does this mean that this bag was the bag he got the money with? Or a new bag? or was there no bag and those reports were wrong?
He was paid with a white canvas bag.
How come we didn't hear more about this bag?
If it's the bag he jumped with, that's pretty interesting.
I don't think there were multiple bags. Does this mean that this bag was the bag he got the money with? Or a new bag? or was there no bag and those reports were wrong?
He was paid with a white canvas bag.
How come we didn't hear more about this bag?
If it's the bag he jumped with, that's pretty interesting.
3/28/08 in response to the chute find. I wonder if there were more flight path witnesses, and the fbi just didn't open itself up to information from the public at the time.
http://www.columbian.com/news/localNews/2008/03/03282008_Chute-opens-speculation.cfm
....Dennis Levanen, who lives in the Heisson area, said he vividly remembers the airplane flying directly over his house on Thanksgiving Eve in 1971. He quibbles with the FBIs flight path of the airplane, noting that it appears several miles west of where it actually flew.
It was just huge and roaring, he said. It was under a lot of power to keep it airborne, going as slow as the guy demanded....
I looked up Heisson, WA with Google Earth. It's 9.5 miles east of I5..
but get this..it's just 6 miles SSW of Amboy, WA where the new chute was found.
This has got me excited. Maybe the Amboy, WA chute really is Cooper's reserve or main chute. The main is easily identifiable if so. 22 gores. 26 ft conical. (if indeed it was NB-6). If the reserve was typical, I'd say 24 ft flat circular.
there are 3 unincorporated communities in Clark County. Says Heisson is one and is rural (lots of fields in the Google Earth view)
from wikipedia:
Heisson is a small, rural community, located north of Battle Ground and Lewisville. Heisson has increasingly become a bedroom community for nearby Vancouver, Washington, and Portland, Oregon. Despite this, the area remains fairly rural.
http://www.columbian.com/news/localNews/2008/03/03282008_Chute-opens-speculation.cfm
....Dennis Levanen, who lives in the Heisson area, said he vividly remembers the airplane flying directly over his house on Thanksgiving Eve in 1971. He quibbles with the FBIs flight path of the airplane, noting that it appears several miles west of where it actually flew.
It was just huge and roaring, he said. It was under a lot of power to keep it airborne, going as slow as the guy demanded....
I looked up Heisson, WA with Google Earth. It's 9.5 miles east of I5..
but get this..it's just 6 miles SSW of Amboy, WA where the new chute was found.
This has got me excited. Maybe the Amboy, WA chute really is Cooper's reserve or main chute. The main is easily identifiable if so. 22 gores. 26 ft conical. (if indeed it was NB-6). If the reserve was typical, I'd say 24 ft flat circular.
there are 3 unincorporated communities in Clark County. Says Heisson is one and is rural (lots of fields in the Google Earth view)
from wikipedia:
Heisson is a small, rural community, located north of Battle Ground and Lewisville. Heisson has increasingly become a bedroom community for nearby Vancouver, Washington, and Portland, Oregon. Despite this, the area remains fairly rural.
Looking at "The Parachute Manual: A Technical Treatise on Aerodynamic Decelerators by Dan Poynter (1984)
on page 255.
it sure sounds like the NB-6 parachute system used the second of these two canopies and it was circa the mid-50's which means a canopy labelled 1946 would likely be wrong.
the picture of a nb-6 I had pointed to earlier
http://www.ljmilitaria.com/1d7ffa9f0.jpg
shows a NPU56-202-1 number ..checking that out to make sure.
Poynter page 293 seems to say that NPU number refers to the backpack rig, not the canopy.
http://books.google.com/books?id=BK...nDq7T4p&sig=fzv2APxAUD5zJZrvoAI4hBNgUag&hl=en
Copying from Poynter, on Navy canopies: Assume the text on the 2nd canopy defines the main canopy Cooper used.
http://books.google.com/books?id=BKTuTXrXQu0C&pg=PA255&lpg=PA255&dq=%22nb+6%22+22+gores&source=web&ots=n_mnDq6SYj&sig=q5qu_zoHuE-YCvAhSf44DtWkFPQ&hl=en
NPU 53-141 (606019-1): Type 1, 26' 22 gore conical canopy of Type 1 ripstop nylon and Type II suspension lines. This is the early model with the narrower circumferential reinforcing bands of MIL-T-5038, Type III ribbon tpe. Part of the NB-4 assy. Circa 1954.
NAF 606019-23, 60A114E3-1: Type II 26' 22 gore conical canopy. Same as the Type I but the circumferential reinforcing bands are of MIL-T-6134, Type II tape.
Cone angle of 115.4 degrees. Lines are 19' long. The vent was designed to be 18" but it is actually 15.25" once sewn. The closed vent encourages opening at low speeds. ....Changed from all white to four color in 1967. Deflation pockets were added to every other gore at the skirt at the same time. These are designed to catch in the water and spill the canopy if the wearer is being dragged. Part of the NB-5 and NB-6 assys. In 1957, Pioneer made a few in white Type II ripstop and labeled them "606019 MOD". Circa 1955.
A couple of batches of the Navy 26' conical were made for the Joe Smith Parachute Co. by Pioneer circa 1975.
Now the FBI hasn't released any info on the reserve chute, so I won't include info on probable reserve chute canopies. But if it was a training chute, it was likely to be old, so the 1946 date on it doesn't exclude anything.
on page 255.
it sure sounds like the NB-6 parachute system used the second of these two canopies and it was circa the mid-50's which means a canopy labelled 1946 would likely be wrong.
the picture of a nb-6 I had pointed to earlier
http://www.ljmilitaria.com/1d7ffa9f0.jpg
shows a NPU56-202-1 number ..checking that out to make sure.
Poynter page 293 seems to say that NPU number refers to the backpack rig, not the canopy.
http://books.google.com/books?id=BK...nDq7T4p&sig=fzv2APxAUD5zJZrvoAI4hBNgUag&hl=en
Copying from Poynter, on Navy canopies: Assume the text on the 2nd canopy defines the main canopy Cooper used.
http://books.google.com/books?id=BKTuTXrXQu0C&pg=PA255&lpg=PA255&dq=%22nb+6%22+22+gores&source=web&ots=n_mnDq6SYj&sig=q5qu_zoHuE-YCvAhSf44DtWkFPQ&hl=en
NPU 53-141 (606019-1): Type 1, 26' 22 gore conical canopy of Type 1 ripstop nylon and Type II suspension lines. This is the early model with the narrower circumferential reinforcing bands of MIL-T-5038, Type III ribbon tpe. Part of the NB-4 assy. Circa 1954.
NAF 606019-23, 60A114E3-1: Type II 26' 22 gore conical canopy. Same as the Type I but the circumferential reinforcing bands are of MIL-T-6134, Type II tape.
Cone angle of 115.4 degrees. Lines are 19' long. The vent was designed to be 18" but it is actually 15.25" once sewn. The closed vent encourages opening at low speeds. ....Changed from all white to four color in 1967. Deflation pockets were added to every other gore at the skirt at the same time. These are designed to catch in the water and spill the canopy if the wearer is being dragged. Part of the NB-5 and NB-6 assys. In 1957, Pioneer made a few in white Type II ripstop and labeled them "606019 MOD". Circa 1955.
A couple of batches of the Navy 26' conical were made for the Joe Smith Parachute Co. by Pioneer circa 1975.
Now the FBI hasn't released any info on the reserve chute, so I won't include info on probable reserve chute canopies. But if it was a training chute, it was likely to be old, so the 1946 date on it doesn't exclude anything.
okay, if I look at
Amboy, WA, (reserve chute found?)
Heisson, WA (newly quoted witness)
and the money location on the Columbia at 45°43'2.88"N 122°45'34.55"W
you can approximate a straight line thru those 3 points. About a 21-22 mile path. so it takes maybe 7 minutes for the plane to cover it.
And it ends with the plane crossing to the west side of I-5, so maybe that's what Scott was remembering..being on the west side of I-5 as he approached Vancouver. Remember he was going a lot slower than normal so his memories/perceptions of when/where may be a little off.
So let's say as Cooper is standing there, the reserve chute rips off in the wind because it's not properly attached, because it didn't have the right D rings for the main harness, as Cossey has said. It falls and lands in Amboy. That's the 1946 canopy...sewn up as a training rig. Or maybe Cooper just tossed it when it was obvious it was screwed up attachwise, or he realizes it's just a damn training rig!
Then the plane flies over the house in Heisson, WA as the witness says.
Then Cooper jumps, near the Columbia and lands near where the money was found. He doesn't open the parachute (an open parachute probably would have been found, even if he stashed it..and he wasn't taking it with him...remember McCoys chute was found pretty quick, stashed in a culvert by a boy..these things get found)
So assume the money ripped off somewhat on the jump so it lands on the east beach of the Columbia or the water nearby...and Cooper actually augered into the mud on the west side of the Columbia river. Not as much development there. ..then or now...like the Sauvie Island area.
He doesn't land in the river, cause his body would have shown up. He just augers into the mud, and that's that. Mud hides everything. Remember that plane that crashed in the swamps in Florida. Disappeared in the muck.
There's been no development out there in that large area...so no one finds him..
Sauvie Island is 26000 acres. Note how it's a lot of water too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sauvie_Island
Sauvie Island, in the U.S. state of Oregon, is the largest island along the Columbia River, at 26,000 acres (105 km²
. It lies approximately ten miles northwest of downtown Portland, between the Columbia River to the east, the Multnomah Channel to the west, and the Willamette River to the south. Much of the interior comprises water; Sturgeon Lake, in the north central part of the island, is the most prominent water feature. The land area is 84.82 km² (32.75 sq mi, or 20,959 acres).
Amboy, WA, (reserve chute found?)
Heisson, WA (newly quoted witness)
and the money location on the Columbia at 45°43'2.88"N 122°45'34.55"W
you can approximate a straight line thru those 3 points. About a 21-22 mile path. so it takes maybe 7 minutes for the plane to cover it.
And it ends with the plane crossing to the west side of I-5, so maybe that's what Scott was remembering..being on the west side of I-5 as he approached Vancouver. Remember he was going a lot slower than normal so his memories/perceptions of when/where may be a little off.
So let's say as Cooper is standing there, the reserve chute rips off in the wind because it's not properly attached, because it didn't have the right D rings for the main harness, as Cossey has said. It falls and lands in Amboy. That's the 1946 canopy...sewn up as a training rig. Or maybe Cooper just tossed it when it was obvious it was screwed up attachwise, or he realizes it's just a damn training rig!
Then the plane flies over the house in Heisson, WA as the witness says.
Then Cooper jumps, near the Columbia and lands near where the money was found. He doesn't open the parachute (an open parachute probably would have been found, even if he stashed it..and he wasn't taking it with him...remember McCoys chute was found pretty quick, stashed in a culvert by a boy..these things get found)
So assume the money ripped off somewhat on the jump so it lands on the east beach of the Columbia or the water nearby...and Cooper actually augered into the mud on the west side of the Columbia river. Not as much development there. ..then or now...like the Sauvie Island area.
He doesn't land in the river, cause his body would have shown up. He just augers into the mud, and that's that. Mud hides everything. Remember that plane that crashed in the swamps in Florida. Disappeared in the muck.
There's been no development out there in that large area...so no one finds him..
Sauvie Island is 26000 acres. Note how it's a lot of water too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sauvie_Island
Sauvie Island, in the U.S. state of Oregon, is the largest island along the Columbia River, at 26,000 acres (105 km²
. It lies approximately ten miles northwest of downtown Portland, between the Columbia River to the east, the Multnomah Channel to the west, and the Willamette River to the south. Much of the interior comprises water; Sturgeon Lake, in the north central part of the island, is the most prominent water feature. The land area is 84.82 km² (32.75 sq mi, or 20,959 acres).Thanks Snowman!
Interesting stuff!
I was hoping there were differences between your average Forest Service chute and Cooper's Im sure that was determined early on.
I didnt realise they started deploying smokejumpers as early as 1939.
Ive always felt his chances of snagging a tree were pretty excellent.I knew that ,that happened during smoke jumps fairly regularly,and rarely with fatal results.
Ive always felt his plan had a good chance if he had experience jumping.The only thing to me that makes me think something went wrong is the simple fact that the money never turned up in circulation.
Interesting stuff!
I was hoping there were differences between your average Forest Service chute and Cooper's Im sure that was determined early on.
I didnt realise they started deploying smokejumpers as early as 1939.
Ive always felt his chances of snagging a tree were pretty excellent.I knew that ,that happened during smoke jumps fairly regularly,and rarely with fatal results.
Ive always felt his plan had a good chance if he had experience jumping.The only thing to me that makes me think something went wrong is the simple fact that the money never turned up in circulation.
The chute might be a red herring. But if it is the chute, perhaps DB planned to drop the money before landing to lessen the load and dropped it too soon. He had to be estimating his altitude since it was dark. He may have hit even miles away from the money if this was the case. Would the money be upwind from the chute that night?
Snowman's right about the importance of the bag the 80's money was found in.
I don't think that money was a plant to throw off anyone. He dropped it or lost it in error.
Does anyone know if the chute site was in the original search area by the FBI?
Snowman's right about the importance of the bag the 80's money was found in.
I don't think that money was a plant to throw off anyone. He dropped it or lost it in error.
Does anyone know if the chute site was in the original search area by the FBI?
When considering/calculating the temperature for the jump, you cannot simply rely on what the temerature was on the ground. Temperature decreases at a standard rate of 3 degrees F for every one thousand feet of altitude.
Cooper's clothing and shoes: There were a lot of very diverse descriptions of "Cooper" and his clothing from the many different passengers and air crew members. One of the strangest stories seems to be that he was wearing loafers. Nobody actually saw what he was wearing when he went out of the airplane. While just speculation on my part, I wonder if he might have been wearing hunting/hiking boots of the style popular in the 1960's. Such boots were usually made of brown, oiled leather and featured a "moccasin" type toe top which is also a main feature of loafers. If his trousers were long enough to cover most of the boot, it might appear that he had on a pair of loafers to the casual observer.
The FBI and the Airline did do some testing to see what the feasability was of jumping from the rear door of the 727. The same pilot who had been hijacked was the one who flew the test flight. He felt the same sensations (aircraft motions) that he had felt on the actual flight when the test jumper left the aircraft.
Regarding the chutes: There are (at least) two conflicting stories about which chutes were used by Cooper.
1. The Master Rigger, Earl Cossey, has stated that he was told by the FBI that only one of the four chutes was missing from the airplane when it landed, and that it was one of the two backpacks that he had personally packed. His theory was that Cooper could not find a way to attatch both the chest chute and the bulky package of money, and so decided to take a chance and jump with only the one chute.
2. The FBI has always maintained that "Cooper" took two chutes - a backpack and one of the chest chutes, and that the chest chute he took was, unfortunately, the Dummy training device.
Either story, however, indicates that Cooper jumped with one good backpack chute which was professionally packed by Master Rigger Cossey.
Cooper's clothing and shoes: There were a lot of very diverse descriptions of "Cooper" and his clothing from the many different passengers and air crew members. One of the strangest stories seems to be that he was wearing loafers. Nobody actually saw what he was wearing when he went out of the airplane. While just speculation on my part, I wonder if he might have been wearing hunting/hiking boots of the style popular in the 1960's. Such boots were usually made of brown, oiled leather and featured a "moccasin" type toe top which is also a main feature of loafers. If his trousers were long enough to cover most of the boot, it might appear that he had on a pair of loafers to the casual observer.
The FBI and the Airline did do some testing to see what the feasability was of jumping from the rear door of the 727. The same pilot who had been hijacked was the one who flew the test flight. He felt the same sensations (aircraft motions) that he had felt on the actual flight when the test jumper left the aircraft.
Regarding the chutes: There are (at least) two conflicting stories about which chutes were used by Cooper.
1. The Master Rigger, Earl Cossey, has stated that he was told by the FBI that only one of the four chutes was missing from the airplane when it landed, and that it was one of the two backpacks that he had personally packed. His theory was that Cooper could not find a way to attatch both the chest chute and the bulky package of money, and so decided to take a chance and jump with only the one chute.
2. The FBI has always maintained that "Cooper" took two chutes - a backpack and one of the chest chutes, and that the chest chute he took was, unfortunately, the Dummy training device.
Either story, however, indicates that Cooper jumped with one good backpack chute which was professionally packed by Master Rigger Cossey.
Spazkat9696
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did anyone else see the show on either discovery or history channel about this last night. I think it's called unsolved history. Anyway this guy made a death bed confession that he was Dan Cooper, and they used facial recognition between his photo and the artist composite and he came back as the best match of the three suspects that can not be ruled out. His life and DB's life had a lot of parallels as well. It was a pretty interesting show.
The air temperature at 10000 ft didn't matter. He'd be on the ground in a matter of minutes. Human has 110 mph terminal velocity, you'd hit the ground in 60 seconds (10k ft exit) f you didn't pull the chute.....So you'd basically pull the ripcord once you exited the plane...and then just float to the ground at what 18ft/sec? Probably 400 seconds max. float time....You're not going to freeze to death in those 6 or 7 minutes..
The ground temperature is all that mattered, if you were worried about him surviving in the woods. But I don't think he landed in the woods anyhow.
However, if we agree Cooper was no pro jumper, it's easier to agree he augered into the mud, and that's why his body wasn't found. (or chute)
Let's compare to McCoy a couple months later..McCoy was professional. He had Vietnam helicoptor rescue experience.
He was hard core.
He packed all his own gear in his luggage. When they landed to get the $500k ransom, he had them get his luggage from the baggage section of the plane. In there he had a helmet, jumpsuit and could have even had his own chute (I'm sure he ordered 4 chutes to copy Cooper).
The luggage plan was superior I think. If Cooper was a pro, he would have wanted his own gear, not worry about figuring out random chutes that would be delivered to him. Also note how much McCoy worried about airspeed data from the cockpit etc.
So I agree...Cooper probably didn't have much parachuting experience.
Note that McCoy jumped in geographic area he was familar with..Provo, Utah. I think anyone would do that, including Cooper. So I think Cooper was local to the Seattle or Portland/Vancouver area.
from FBI page on McCoy:
http://www.fbi.gov/libref/historic/famcases/mccoy/mccoy.htm
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]...In consideration of the safety of all aboard Flight 855, United Air Lines officials decided to meet the demands upon the plane's landing at San Francisco. Two flight bags loaded with cash and four parachutes were delivered to the plane. The hijacker, who had assumed command on touchdown, gave up his baggage check and had his luggage brought aboard....
[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]...The hijacker opened his luggage and covered the peephole between the cockpit and cabin. Observed by Second Officer Floyd Smith (fictitious name) through a slight space under the cockpit door, the hijacker quickly put on a jumpsuit, helmet, and parachute. Once he had shut off the cabin lights to better view the ground, the gunman demanded to be kept abreast of wind, ground, and air speeds; altimeter settings; and sky conditions...
[/SIZE][/FONT]There are also some nice excerpts from a book on McCoy here. The page references the film but the excerpts are from the book. Good background detail
D.B. Cooper: The Real McCoy, by Bernie Rhodes. Research by Russell Calame. Salt Lake City, Utah: University of Utah Press (1991).
http://www.ldsfilm.com/movies/DBCooper.html
It's surprising the FBI didn't handle a chase plane correctly in the McCoy case also. They actually just got lucky with a fingerprint match and a phoned-in tip in finding him. Quite interesting how the guy's wife was apparently involved in the plan and all...
The ground temperature is all that mattered, if you were worried about him surviving in the woods. But I don't think he landed in the woods anyhow.
However, if we agree Cooper was no pro jumper, it's easier to agree he augered into the mud, and that's why his body wasn't found. (or chute)
Let's compare to McCoy a couple months later..McCoy was professional. He had Vietnam helicoptor rescue experience.
He was hard core.
He packed all his own gear in his luggage. When they landed to get the $500k ransom, he had them get his luggage from the baggage section of the plane. In there he had a helmet, jumpsuit and could have even had his own chute (I'm sure he ordered 4 chutes to copy Cooper).
The luggage plan was superior I think. If Cooper was a pro, he would have wanted his own gear, not worry about figuring out random chutes that would be delivered to him. Also note how much McCoy worried about airspeed data from the cockpit etc.
So I agree...Cooper probably didn't have much parachuting experience.
Note that McCoy jumped in geographic area he was familar with..Provo, Utah. I think anyone would do that, including Cooper. So I think Cooper was local to the Seattle or Portland/Vancouver area.
from FBI page on McCoy:
http://www.fbi.gov/libref/historic/famcases/mccoy/mccoy.htm
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]...In consideration of the safety of all aboard Flight 855, United Air Lines officials decided to meet the demands upon the plane's landing at San Francisco. Two flight bags loaded with cash and four parachutes were delivered to the plane. The hijacker, who had assumed command on touchdown, gave up his baggage check and had his luggage brought aboard....
[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-1]...The hijacker opened his luggage and covered the peephole between the cockpit and cabin. Observed by Second Officer Floyd Smith (fictitious name) through a slight space under the cockpit door, the hijacker quickly put on a jumpsuit, helmet, and parachute. Once he had shut off the cabin lights to better view the ground, the gunman demanded to be kept abreast of wind, ground, and air speeds; altimeter settings; and sky conditions...
[/SIZE][/FONT]There are also some nice excerpts from a book on McCoy here. The page references the film but the excerpts are from the book. Good background detail
D.B. Cooper: The Real McCoy, by Bernie Rhodes. Research by Russell Calame. Salt Lake City, Utah: University of Utah Press (1991).
http://www.ldsfilm.com/movies/DBCooper.html
It's surprising the FBI didn't handle a chase plane correctly in the McCoy case also. They actually just got lucky with a fingerprint match and a phoned-in tip in finding him. Quite interesting how the guy's wife was apparently involved in the plan and all...
I had not seen this before. This is copy of the transcripts of the conversations with the pilots, I suppose with ground or flight control.
Nice it has time stamps also. Looks like it was typed in the 1971 time frame
http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/thebigblog/library/dbcooper_transcripts.pdf
Nice it has time stamps also. Looks like it was typed in the 1971 time frame
http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/thebigblog/library/dbcooper_transcripts.pdf
I'm at page 10 of the transcripts and I find one interesting new thing.
(abbreviations are easy to decipher. These apparently were typed on the fly. .typist apparently used "
"
at the end of a word if he made an error..no backspace in those days! so ignore words ending in in the transcripts)
Cooper specified they would fly with the "AFT STAIRS TO BE LWRD AFTER TKOFF"
and "AFT PSGR LOADING DOOR WILL BE OPEN" even before they took off after fueling
see page 10.
"305 R HAVEXXX AFT PSGR LOADING DOOR WILL BE OPEN AND WILL REMAIN IN THAT POSN AND AFT STAIRS TO BE LWRD AFTR TKOFF"
The pilot/control apparently thought the stairs couldn't be lowered in flight, so there was all sorts of debate about taking off with the stairs down or partially down. But Cooper didn't say that. He was comfortable with the idea of opening in flight. What's weird is that they later say they had dumped two to three hundred lb. boxes out the aft stairs...so they must have known they could be opened in flight (since you can't take off that way)..so they weren't thinking straight. They just didn't know. Maybe there's a lot of exchanges with experts not shown, gathering this kind of info on the fly..so we see some communication early on where they didn't know about 727 experience with aft door/stairs open while flying.
on page 10/11 (note the's are I think the guy on the typewriter trying to correct mistakes...so ignore those)
"305 HAV NOXXX NEGOTD RLS OF 2 GIRLS LVG ANY MOMENT 3RD GIRL TO STAY ITH ACFT WANTS HER TO MANIPULATE STAIRS FOR HIM AFTR PLANE AIRBORNE HAVE TRIED TO TELL HIM INXXX UNAM OPRTE STAIRS TO LWRD AFTR TKOFF TRYING TO GET HIM TO LET US LWR STAIRS PARTLLY FOR TKOFF"
"MSP FLT OPNS DONT KNOW OF ANY WAY TO LOCK STAIRS IN INTMTDE POSN"
"305 R WIL TALK TO HIM AGAIN"
So it's not like there was some surprise when he lowered the aft stairs.
The previous reports made it out to be a big surprise when he lowered the stairs in flight. They knew he wanted to do that all along. The combination of stairs, plus flaps (and gear down?) is what led them to say they wouldn't make Mexico.
Cooper hadn't thought of that...the issue of more fuel needed if he tells them Mexico with flaps and stairs. He wasn't really going to Mexico, so he kinda missed that issue in his tunnel thinking.
Here's another important note.
at 5:47 PM PST
"305 WE HAVE INSTRCTNS FROM THE INDVDL WANTS NR1 (?) GO TO MEXICO CITY 2 TO FLY WITH GEAR DOWN AND FLAPS AT 15 EGDEG AFTR UNDERWAY ALL LITHGHTS TO BE TURND OUT IN ACFT"
So it's not clear that Cooper specified 15 degree flaps. The pilot reported 15 degree flaps. It's possible Cooper just told the pilot to lower the flaps, and the pilot was just being precise in reporting to the tower the exact state and why that wouldn't let him fly to Mexico.
This is important because a lot of reports quote the flap degree specification as evidence of Cooper being an aviation person. There's nothing that says Cooper specified the degree of the flaps. (on second thought, I'm thinking Cooper did specify 15. It's consistent with how the pilot relays demands from Cooper)
It's possible Scott later said Cooper requested 15 degrees. But it's also possible that he didn't. (I'm thinking in the end Cooper did say 15 ..see bottom here. But did he calculate 15 degrees as a Boeing engineer experienced in trim/stabilizer calcs, or did he have firsthand experience in a flight that opened the aft doors (vietnam/cia or ??))
page 11 and 12 has notes about how they can't take off with the stairs down...so Cooper wasn't that expert...he didn't know a lot about the aft stairs...It was going to be news to him that they'd have to lower in flight.
note on page 12 they say they know the plane has been flown with the stairs lowered
"MSP FLT OPS HAVE NO CNTRL PROBLEM WHEN XTNDD MAY BE SUM SLITE PITCHUP BUT ERY CNTRLLBL PLANE HAS BEEN FLOWN THIS WAY HAVE LARGE BOXES OF 2 TO 3HND LBS THRU THE DOOR IN THIS CONFIG MUST BE DOWN WITH LANDING FLAPS SPEED NOT TO CRITICAL ANY FLAT POSN BTWN 5 AND 40 AND SPEED TO 120 KTS DONT HAVE ANGLE YET BUT WORKING ON IT"
I wonder if the experience shoving two to three hundred pound boxes thru the open aft door, was from Vietnam?
So the tower was trying to work out what kind of trim was needed with the flaps, to keep the plane from pitching up, while flying with the aft stairs down...
But: Maybe he is insisting on a flap degree:
on page 12
"305 HE SEEMS TO BE INSISTENT WITH STAIRS IN 1 DEG" (typo? maybe 15?)
"MSP IMPOSS TO TKOFF WITH STAIRS XTNDD BUT FULL UTXXX UP"
"305 R WANTS GIRL TO INITIATE STAIRS AFTR TKOFF SHUD WE TIE HER DOWN TO STRUCTURE"
I think maybe Cooper understood the trim issues of a plane. If he was a laid-off Boeing engineer like I think, maybe he calculated the required flap angle with aft stairs lowered, to keep the plane trim.
on page 13/14 they note at 7:34 PM
that he's trying to lower the stairs and they have an aft stair lite on
they say they're 14 miles on V23 (vector 23)
So the aft stairs were lowered a lot earlier than 8:05?
page 16 is where they Stewardess Mucklow sees him with the "KNAPSACK AROUND HIM AND THINKS HE WILL ATTEMPT A JUMP"
they say indicated speed is 160 knots on page 16? and they're at ten thousand feet or are they at 15 thousand "indicated" as he says, and they're going to 10 thousand...Not clear when they got to 10 thousand. Note the gear is down in addition to the flaps.
So is the plane going slower than previously indicated? And Cooper maybe jumped before they got to 10 thousand? not clear. If he jumped between 8:05 and 8:12 I guess they had time to come down to 10 thousand.
"MSP FLT OPS WHT IS ALTDE"
"305 NOW AT 15THSD INDCTD 160 FUEL FLOW 4000 15 DEG FLAP GEAR DOWN CQN WILL STAY AT 1XX TEN THSD TIL HAS LEFT"
"8:01 PM PST"
(the time for an exchange is always last in the group)
at 8:12 PM on page 18, the pilot notes the oscillations and says he
must be doing something with the "AIR STAIRS"
at 8:05 PM on page 17 they noted trying to make contact with Cooper two times but no response. But then he did respond on the PA system.. so he's still there at 8:05 PM..
So there's a big 7 minute window of time where they don't really know where he jumped. The oscillation could have been from the stairs going full lowered when weighted by Cooper (as FBI testing showed) or maybe not
He could have jumped/fell after the oscillation..i.e. the FBI test had a guy walk out on the stairs, not actually jump (they used a sled for another test...)...maybe cooper hung on the stairs for a little while when he felt the plane oscillation..Maybe he jumped/fell 1 minute or so after the oscillation...i.e. around 8:13
still reading (I'm on page 18 of 99)
The new info for me was that the aft stairs were lowered well below 8:05...i.e. 7:34
So Cooper was waiting...waiting until he saw his (or maybe a?) desired landing zone before jumped.
He didn't just get the stairs open and go for it right away.
Combine that with being able to see Portland/Vancouver lights thru the cloud cover, and it makes me more comfortable about Vancouver being the targeted jump zone.
(abbreviations are easy to decipher. These apparently were typed on the fly. .typist apparently used "
"at the end of a word if he made an error..no backspace in those days! so ignore words ending in
in the transcripts)Cooper specified they would fly with the "AFT STAIRS TO BE LWRD AFTER TKOFF"
and "AFT PSGR LOADING DOOR WILL BE OPEN" even before they took off after fueling
see page 10.
"305 R HAVEXXX AFT PSGR LOADING DOOR WILL BE OPEN AND WILL REMAIN IN THAT POSN AND AFT STAIRS TO BE LWRD AFTR TKOFF"
The pilot/control apparently thought the stairs couldn't be lowered in flight, so there was all sorts of debate about taking off with the stairs down or partially down. But Cooper didn't say that. He was comfortable with the idea of opening in flight. What's weird is that they later say they had dumped two to three hundred lb. boxes out the aft stairs...so they must have known they could be opened in flight (since you can't take off that way)..so they weren't thinking straight. They just didn't know. Maybe there's a lot of exchanges with experts not shown, gathering this kind of info on the fly..so we see some communication early on where they didn't know about 727 experience with aft door/stairs open while flying.
on page 10/11 (note the
's are I think the guy on the typewriter trying to correct mistakes...so ignore those)"305 HAV NOXXX NEGOTD RLS OF 2 GIRLS LVG ANY MOMENT 3RD GIRL TO STAY ITH ACFT WANTS HER TO MANIPULATE STAIRS FOR HIM AFTR PLANE AIRBORNE HAVE TRIED TO TELL HIM INXXX UNAM OPRTE STAIRS TO LWRD AFTR TKOFF TRYING TO GET HIM TO LET US LWR STAIRS PARTLLY FOR TKOFF"
"MSP FLT OPNS DONT KNOW OF ANY WAY TO LOCK STAIRS IN INTMTDE POSN"
"305 R WIL TALK TO HIM AGAIN"
So it's not like there was some surprise when he lowered the aft stairs.
The previous reports made it out to be a big surprise when he lowered the stairs in flight. They knew he wanted to do that all along. The combination of stairs, plus flaps (and gear down?) is what led them to say they wouldn't make Mexico.
Cooper hadn't thought of that...the issue of more fuel needed if he tells them Mexico with flaps and stairs. He wasn't really going to Mexico, so he kinda missed that issue in his tunnel thinking.
Here's another important note.
at 5:47 PM PST
"305 WE HAVE INSTRCTNS FROM THE INDVDL WANTS NR1 (?) GO TO MEXICO CITY 2 TO FLY WITH GEAR DOWN AND FLAPS AT 15 EGDEG AFTR UNDERWAY ALL LITHGHTS TO BE TURND OUT IN ACFT"
So it's not clear that Cooper specified 15 degree flaps. The pilot reported 15 degree flaps. It's possible Cooper just told the pilot to lower the flaps, and the pilot was just being precise in reporting to the tower the exact state and why that wouldn't let him fly to Mexico.
This is important because a lot of reports quote the flap degree specification as evidence of Cooper being an aviation person. There's nothing that says Cooper specified the degree of the flaps. (on second thought, I'm thinking Cooper did specify 15. It's consistent with how the pilot relays demands from Cooper)
It's possible Scott later said Cooper requested 15 degrees. But it's also possible that he didn't. (I'm thinking in the end Cooper did say 15 ..see bottom here. But did he calculate 15 degrees as a Boeing engineer experienced in trim/stabilizer calcs, or did he have firsthand experience in a flight that opened the aft doors (vietnam/cia or ??))
page 11 and 12 has notes about how they can't take off with the stairs down...so Cooper wasn't that expert...he didn't know a lot about the aft stairs...It was going to be news to him that they'd have to lower in flight.
note on page 12 they say they know the plane has been flown with the stairs lowered
"MSP FLT OPS HAVE NO CNTRL PROBLEM WHEN XTNDD MAY BE SUM SLITE PITCHUP BUT ERY CNTRLLBL PLANE HAS BEEN FLOWN THIS WAY HAVE LARGE BOXES OF 2 TO 3HND LBS THRU THE DOOR IN THIS CONFIG MUST BE DOWN WITH LANDING FLAPS SPEED NOT TO CRITICAL ANY FLAT POSN BTWN 5 AND 40 AND SPEED TO 120 KTS DONT HAVE ANGLE YET BUT WORKING ON IT"
I wonder if the experience shoving two to three hundred pound boxes thru the open aft door, was from Vietnam?
So the tower was trying to work out what kind of trim was needed with the flaps, to keep the plane from pitching up, while flying with the aft stairs down...
But: Maybe he is insisting on a flap degree:
on page 12
"305 HE SEEMS TO BE INSISTENT WITH STAIRS IN 1 DEG" (typo? maybe 15?)
"MSP IMPOSS TO TKOFF WITH STAIRS XTNDD BUT FULL UTXXX UP"
"305 R WANTS GIRL TO INITIATE STAIRS AFTR TKOFF SHUD WE TIE HER DOWN TO STRUCTURE"
I think maybe Cooper understood the trim issues of a plane. If he was a laid-off Boeing engineer like I think, maybe he calculated the required flap angle with aft stairs lowered, to keep the plane trim.
on page 13/14 they note at 7:34 PM
that he's trying to lower the stairs and they have an aft stair lite on
they say they're 14 miles on V23 (vector 23)
So the aft stairs were lowered a lot earlier than 8:05?
page 16 is where they Stewardess Mucklow sees him with the "KNAPSACK AROUND HIM AND THINKS HE WILL ATTEMPT A JUMP"
they say indicated speed is 160 knots on page 16? and they're at ten thousand feet or are they at 15 thousand "indicated" as he says, and they're going to 10 thousand...Not clear when they got to 10 thousand. Note the gear is down in addition to the flaps.
So is the plane going slower than previously indicated? And Cooper maybe jumped before they got to 10 thousand? not clear. If he jumped between 8:05 and 8:12 I guess they had time to come down to 10 thousand.
"MSP FLT OPS WHT IS ALTDE"
"305 NOW AT 15THSD INDCTD 160 FUEL FLOW 4000 15 DEG FLAP GEAR DOWN CQN WILL STAY AT 1XX TEN THSD TIL HAS LEFT"
"8:01 PM PST"
(the time for an exchange is always last in the group)
at 8:12 PM on page 18, the pilot notes the oscillations and says he
must be doing something with the "AIR STAIRS"
at 8:05 PM on page 17 they noted trying to make contact with Cooper two times but no response. But then he did respond on the PA system.. so he's still there at 8:05 PM..
So there's a big 7 minute window of time where they don't really know where he jumped. The oscillation could have been from the stairs going full lowered when weighted by Cooper (as FBI testing showed) or maybe not
He could have jumped/fell after the oscillation..i.e. the FBI test had a guy walk out on the stairs, not actually jump (they used a sled for another test...)...maybe cooper hung on the stairs for a little while when he felt the plane oscillation..Maybe he jumped/fell 1 minute or so after the oscillation...i.e. around 8:13
still reading (I'm on page 18 of 99)
The new info for me was that the aft stairs were lowered well below 8:05...i.e. 7:34
So Cooper was waiting...waiting until he saw his (or maybe a?) desired landing zone before jumped.
He didn't just get the stairs open and go for it right away.
Combine that with being able to see Portland/Vancouver lights thru the cloud cover, and it makes me more comfortable about Vancouver being the targeted jump zone.
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