WA WA - Elma, AsianFem 25-40, 330UFWA, Sz6 pearl Avon ring, gold earring w/5 blue sapphires, Oct'88

[scandi]

I think I've seen them do that on crime shows, like Numbers. With a strand of her DNA they could ID the parts of her ancestry but it would probably be way too expensive.


Scandi

 

[wannabesleuthkk]

OK.
Scandi, i've got a site on that too. i'll get back with you on a few. i got 3 balls in the air. give me a few on that.

'Sup Doc?
need your help. first, i've got a link and an idea on your full body graphic and i'll get right back to that in a minute.

next. i need a geek. not knowing how to operate these complicated programs, i would like you to take a look at these downloadable programs and utilities to see if they're something worth getting to recreate full facial skull image of Elma using landmark coordinates with spliced alignment algorithms. If the data on the right half ( 5th) of her skull can be used to create the mirror image of the missing side, a forensic artist would have a much better chance of matching. THere are some programs that can add 'flesh', but i don't think there's one on this site. take a look please and give me your opinion.
Any body heard from efx? Surely he could help in this arena.
kk

http://life.bio.sunysb.edu/morph/

 

[scandi]

I'd say, What a group, Charlie brown!

Scandi

 

[wannabesleuthkk]

i brought up the beginners page for anyone to read. It's on the study of genetic anthropology. from that page you can jump off to other pages of similar studies.
Here's my condensed version. Everyone's DNA is 99% the same. (maybe 98.something) anyway that's how much us humans are alike. the other 1% contains the DNA that makes us different. it's referred to as the "genetic variation" That's where you'll find you identifying traits like eye and hair color. They are very close to being able to determine a person's eye color from a biological sample only. great for hunting perps! finding children! anyway the Human Genome project has really focused on 'mapping that 99%. SO much of the research is dedicated to solutions for identifyin disease predisposition and usefull therapies. Understanding the common thread, 'the human dna roadmap' is vital. i'm more interested in the 1%. the variations. there are reasearchers now who can determine ethnic ancestry with this data. Don't know how, don't ask me. but it's a possibility, just expensive. There's a guy i just found down here in FL that does just that. a Lab for Hire if you will.
I'll definitely write him just outa curiousity. What would be great is to get a student from major research university (UofWA, wash State, UTenn, and i think Baylor may be a possibility.) to tackle this on a volunteer basis. '
My time left on this stuff is limited for the rest of this week and i'll be gone all next week. Scandi, you'll have to email me updates that i can check discreetly from the Keys. My hubby will have a fit if i call home to check on Elma and LYle.!!
http://www.ucl.ac.uk/tcga/ns/nsbg.html

 

[wannabesleuthkk]

here's yet another.
http://anthropology.net/tags/genetics
kk

 

[wannabesleuthkk]

http://www.dnaancestryproject.com/
kk

 

[coldcaseman]

CCM, Did the clay artist glue the pieces of the skull together and then put those stickums on it that show depth, and then the clay?

Scandi

Yep, just like you see on crime shows.

 

[wannabesleuthkk]

CCM, can i email you a copy of an email i'm composing as we speak, to a genetic anthropologist. I'd like you to ok it if you don't mind. Got a sec?
here it comes.

Scandi, do you like the links?


OH, i just down loaded "landmark". one of the skull mapping programs. let me finish email.
be right back!

 

[coldcaseman]

If the data on the right half ( 5th) of her skull can be used to create the mirror image of the missing side, a forensic artist would have a much better chance of matching. THere are some programs that can add 'flesh', but i don't think there's one on this site. take a look please and give me your opinion.
Any body heard from efx? Surely he could help in this arena.
kk

http://life.bio.sunysb.edu/morph/

The problem we have is, the two sides of our faces are slightly different. One eye may be lower than the other, ot the ears, etc. If you create a mirroe image of a persons face, even their loved ones won't recognize them. The differences can be very slight.

 

[wannabesleuthkk]

No one on earth has a symmetrical face. but i still wonder if it's better than the only clay we've got. I wanna go play with this landmark program and see what's required. Doc and David logged off long ago. HEy, speaking of which,
would you be insulted if i asked if the logging truckers got a good look at Elma's pic. Dumb question?
I thought it wouldn't hurt to ask this Ms. Mountain with the genetics lab if she wants to assist or refer someone.
kk

 

[wannabesleuthkk]

This is the page I came across on one of my many googles.
I was wondering it they could help.
there's a chance she could perhaps.

http://www.stanford.edu/group/mountainlab/people/joanna_mountain.html
kk

 

[scandi]

I just got up to check and see what's new and hoping back in the sack as I'm still kinda ugh!~ Thanks for all your work on this sweetie. I'd study them tomorrow.

Has it been discussed about payment for these special services? I don't have any idea about funding, but think we need to know that. If it is a new company or test they might donate their time and study for the publicity to make a mark in the field, and I would think that should be the approach to save the agency from spending $$$'s. Unless there is surplus money confiscated from drug arrests. Maybe the Doe Network CCM knows


Scandi Manyana

 

[wannabesleuthkk]

Here's one for us CSI-heads!

DNA Forensics - http://www.ornl.gov/sci/techresources/Human_Genome/elsi/forensics.shtml

kk

 

[scandi]

Neat! Nitey Nite ;} me

 

[wannabesleuthkk]

as to cost? the link for dnaancestry.com is a paid service. There fee base is $119.00 to run your DNA (contributed in kit they mail) for 20 Y markers. That's what the fee is for. Then, they say, the rest is free. Well, for one. i believe we have the "markers" already on both of our does. Wouldn't that have been done upon them going into CODIS? So I don't think theirs is a great idea in this situation. But the volunteer undergrad could certainly do the trick. And labs like the one i found just now. We'll have to see.
back to googlin
kk

 

[wannabesleuthkk]

Here's a good interpretation of the use of genetic variations in forensics, etc.

http://www.stanford.edu/group/mountainlab/research/regv.html

kk

 

[docwho3]

My idea was a more low tech and, I think, a cheaper one than comp software. Digital cameras have made taking pictures basically a free thing as opposed to paying for film to be developed etc. I figured there are many people of many different heritages, races, and sizes and shapes and ages in the world and many of them are represented by those online and most of us here on websleuths eitheer fit the bill or have friends who might fit any needed description. When L.E. needs a certain age, race, size height etc and dressed in certain clothing we just need to take a pic of a volunteer wearing the specific clothing. (Easier just to have the volunteer wear the right clothes type when pic is taken.)

Facial image reconstruction is good when you have a DOE that was found naked and you need to have some small hope of finding out who it was but when you have specific clothing information to go with body size,weight and height full body image with clothing might become important in helping ID the DOE.

An example : I was in a large store one day and happened to overhear 2 workers talking. One had recently had a day off and had come in to shop for stuff but was dressed differently than was his usual work attire. His coworker said, "Wow, you look different. You just aren't you without your work clothes on."

That started me thinking and I realized that often you can recognize people you know by what they wear along with their body size and shape even when you are too far away to see the face features.

 

[wannabesleuthkk]

there's a Jane Doe i think in FL that has image online of 'fulling clothed head to toe' girl. I'm trying to find it again. I'll post it here in a few.

The software I'm wanting to explore is for using what's left of Elma's skull and recreating a full skull. CCM is right, it may look too symmetrical but i'm gonna continue to look into to this. I believe that some software doesn't just produce 'mirror image' but can complete a face of skull based on the probable ethnic group the subject belongs to. Many researchers now can determine the ethnic group by examining the shape of skull. Just a thot.
i'll be back
kk

 

[wannabesleuthkk]

If our lady wasn't born here what records could be checked thru State Dept regarding visas, etc.
Here's a link i found. Only LE of course can request records on past and present Visa holders. But is it worth a try? If Elma had a visa that expired she may be on a list of unsolveds within the Visa dept.

http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis
visa info - 202) 663-1225

kk
biometrics are now used for visa applicants as well as fingerprints (which won't help us) BUT i don't know how far back they did this. Biometrics - facial recognition thru digital facial pictures taken with fingerprints at time of Visa Issuance.

 

[wannabesleuthkk]

i new there was one with full body image. A young girl from FL. I wish every Doe link had as much info and pics as this one.

http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/49uffl.html

kk