WA - Lindsey Baum, 10, McCleary, 26 June 2009 - #10

[SeriouslySearching]

Yeah! Your awake! This is what I have found so far. Everyone remember when we are discussing these ares they lead to our states beautiful Olympic Pennisula wilderness. The Bogachiel stae park is the closets developed camping facility. Trail route finding is extremely difficult weel into June. It is thickly forresterd 123 acre camping park. River trails is 28.4 mi, and is referred to 'The anglers trail. 17 mi. of wilderness fishing and then leads into the mountains. Could this perp be a avid fishermen of steelhead, salmon and so on???

Maybe we should be looking into sites pertaining to groups of people who hike, fish, and camp in that area on a regular basis. I know in one case, we gathered a lot of information from the Rainbow group site about G. Hilton (charged with at least 3 murders) approaching people who were out in the forests. They were simply relaying stories online about weird things that happened in their travels, but they fit the description etc. People tend to share that information with others so they can be on their guard for unexpected visitors and things.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

I'm jsut about ready to call Dudly Dooright Mounty on this possible location. Seriously I wonder if the over head planes, choppers flew over the outskirts of Mc Cleary.

There were reports that helicoptors and planes did fly over the outskirts mainly at night where their nightvision gear would detect possible locations of recent activity involving a body.

The problem with searching that area without a valid tip or information to lead them to the area is because it wastes resources due to the size and difficulty. If TES came in, they would start at ground zero and work their way out...but they wouldn't randomly go to the outskirts without clearing the rest of the areas first. I hope LE is doing the same thing, but it appears they are limited in what they can or are willing to do in the area of searching.

 

[kageykaren]

This particular state pk. is mostly used for family camping, and serious anglers. Remember this is a thick forrest and we are known for remote sites used to dispose of a body. One possible saving grace is Tuba said a 20 mi extension from town in this direction. When you think of forrest hear invision a rainforrest with alot of undergrowth except the cleared campsites. This is why I feel the perp looks like a rugged outdoorsmen vs. an REI or Cabeela looking man. I think I'm going to call this area in. All I can get is someone thinking I'm strange or no answer at all. Neither one of those is bothersome, although I better be carefull after posting on the marijuana thread. LOL!

 

[kageykaren]

This would be a perfect plan for the perp to drive west to leave a body. I hate to say this but anything going beyond the 20 mi. radius would be an extremely challenging search for Tim due to the terraine. These searches are difficult for our trained search and rescue teams. It is thick, vast, and dangerous for someone not familar with the lay of the land.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

This particular state pk. is mostly used for family camping, and serious anglers. Remember this is a thick forrest and we are known for remote sites used to dispose of a body. One possible saving grace is Tuba said a 20 mi extension from town in this direction. When you think of forrest hear invision a rainforrest with alot of undergrowth except the cleared campsites. This is why I feel the perp looks like a rugged outdoorsmen vs. an REI or Cabeela looking man. I think I'm going to call this area in. All I can get is someone thinking I'm strange or no answer at all. Neither one of those is bothersome, although I better be carefull after posting on the marijuana thread. LOL!

Without direct information connecting the area to Lindsey, I think calling it in is premature. (Have you read some of the tips they got in the search for Caylee?)

My personal thought is unless there is direct information or a tip which is specific then it only gives investigators more to wade through taking away from the leads that could find the person.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

This would be a perfect plan for the perp to drive west to leave a body. I hate to say this but anything going beyond the 20 mi. radius would be an extremely challenging search for Tim due to the terraine. These searches are difficult for our trained search and rescue teams. It is thick, vast, and dangerous for someone not familar with the lay of the land.

TES are trained professionals and they could handle it, but for anyone to search under those conditions is treacherous. TES working in combination with the local SAR group would be a Godsend in this case.

While I understand the thinking behind what you are saying, LE isn't going to go off on a wild goose chase and start such an endeavor. They will work the immediate area and only go outside of it when they are given a legitimate reason such as someone spotting a freshly dug grave, finding a remote campsite, or other clues leading them there.

 

[kageykaren]

You might be right, but I'm the kind to interject a bug in the ear and face to make sure it's stamped into a brain. My job was advocating for others who couldn't do it for themselves. Maybe something LE is working on that might coinside with Tuba's peramiters. I just read park rangers offered free digital pictures of families camping during that time. This makes for some sort of a record for who was in the pk. Those pics might help even if the perp didn't go past the entrance to take care of hiding or disposal. I'll hold off and see if anyone from MC Cleary is familiar with the stretch of "Muddy Waters" Bogachiel river.

 

[JenniferO]

You might be right, but I'm the kind to interject a bug in the ear and face to make sure it's stamped into a brain. My job was advocating for others who couldn't do it for themselves. Maybe something LE is working on that might coinside with Tuba's peramiters. I just read park rangers offered free digital pictures of families camping during that time. This makes for some sort of a record for who was in the pk. Those pics might help even if the perp didn't go past the entrance to take care of hiding or disposal. I'll hold off and see if anyone from MC Cleary is familiar with the stretch of "Muddy Waters" Bogachiel river.

Brought this over from the Astro thread

Ok, I'm still lost because the Bogachiel River runs from just north of Mt Olympus deep in the Olympic National park to the ocean.

It doesn't run anywhere near McCleary. Are you sure you have the right name? I asked my husband (who is a fishing guide in Grays Harbor) and he's never heard of a river called "Muddy River"

Just got a call from my husband, "Muddy River" is south of Mt St Helens. No where near McCleary.

 

[WholeLottaRosie]

Hello everyone.

O/T: My 9 year old stepdaughter was raped by a convicted sex offender in Poplar Bluffs MO, last night. The reason that he was able to get close to her was that although he was convicted of similar crimes in the past, he was not required to register until his 18th birthday and he's only 17. So he basically got a free pass. Thank you MO lawmakers for making this possible.
It never ends.

NMK - I am REALLY sorry about this. Did they arrest the ?

 

[kageykaren]

Jeniffer O could you pull Tubas post of about the chart. When it comes to the river and it's nickname that was just one idea leading in the direction Tuba stated because of her stated peramiters and direction. Other ideas on this path of sluething Tuba has offered to us their may be other things that incorporate wetlands, mud obviously! I detected a curt tone as you pulled my post. It appeared that hastily and bluntly you wanted to show in a rude way a discounting of any ave. Tuba suggested. We are sleuthing in like for the same reason, Lindsey. This is my first time ever complaining about a post seeming wierd. This is a pretty well mannerd website.

 

[JenniferO]

Karen, I apologize if I sounded rude.

It wasn't my intention. I was (and still am) confused about where you are talking about. I'm trying to be helpful too but I can't be when I have no idea where you are talking about.
Bogachiel River does not run by McCleary (or even within 20 miles of it). Hence my confusion because Tuba said "within a 20 mile radius" of McCleary.

Maybe there is a river that has the nickname Muddy Water in Grays Harbor county but my husband and I have never heard that term used. It's possible people outside of the area have nicknamed it this and we (as locals) haven't heard it.

I was just asking for more information as to where you found this info so I can pin point (and get on the same page as you) to dig for more information.

 

[WholeLottaRosie]

My aunt died...I probably won't be able to be on or do anything for a few days...will try to check in though.

My condolences for your loss, McCleary.

 

[kageykaren]

Haddie Mc fadden turned me on to this so until time will allow lets move on. While messing with maps and tubs w. sw. directions this puts us in Montessano 9sp). 19.6 miles to be exact to the Lk. Silvia Mt. Bike trails where according to the website you need a map or partner because we get 60-80 in. of rain. Dirt trail is mud. 20 minutes w.,SW. puts one righ in Montessano. Thank you for your help Hadie. I'm off because my name will be mud in my hubb'ys eyes. LOl Everythings groovey Jennifer.

 

[JenniferO]

I found this great tool (freemaptools.com) and made this quick map of a 20 mile radius around McCleary. Hope this will help some.

 

[cyberswept]

I found this great tool (freemaptools.com) and made this quick map of a 20 mile radius around McCleary. Hope this will help some.

image snipped for space.

Nice find Jen. Cool tool. I am sure it will come in handy in the future too!

 

[JenniferO]

KageyKaren is on to something here:

I'm bringing this post over from the Astro thread:

This pretty much describes all of GH county.. but maybe some locals can think of something specific

For someone familiar with McCleary: what is 20 miles W.S.W. of town, old, lonely and isolated? In rainy weather, this place is MUD.

I thought about the Grisdale area. Are the old buildings still up there? It's been a long time that I went up there. (It's West but not South West of McCleary though)

There is so much area to cover I fear that if Lindsey was taken out there.. she may never be found. This case is really breaking my heart.

 

[McCleary]

KageyKaren is on to something here:

I'm bringing this post over from the Astro thread:

This pretty much describes all of GH county.. but maybe some locals can think of something specific



I thought about the Grisdale area. Are the old buildings still up there? It's been a long time that I went up there. (It's West but not South West of McCleary though)

There is so much area to cover I fear that if Lindsey was taken out there.. she may never be found. This case is really breaking my heart.

"Muddy Water" could be Mud Bay just west of Olympia...101 goes right over it.

Only thing I can think of west-south west of McCleary are Malone, Brooklyn, and Raymond...all of which are kind of out of the way.

Grisdale got dismantled a few years back. There are still a few foundations, but not much else.

And not in reply to this specific post, but others before it, there are a lot of developed campgrounds a lot closer to McCleary than Bogachiel...Bogachiel is 140 miles away by car, and at least 60 as the crow flies.

OT: Looks like I'll have computer time, but can't leave the house due to answering phone calls...so I'll be posting but no in town sleuthing.

Edit: I believe Brooklyn is just about 20 miles from town as the crow flies...and someone told me the only access is a gravel road, so I suppose it could be muddy when it rains...

 

[not_my_kids]

I hate to ask, it seems almost sacrilegious, but has anyone been keeping an eye on found bodies?

 

[charminglane]

WW is a fisherman and counselor from the church that led a vigil for Lindsey. He took brother Josh fishing and I believe I read he has a cabin somewhere?

 

[JenniferO]

McCleary, I thought of Mud Bay also (even posted about it in the Astro thread) but it's east, not west so I don't know.

I knew they had dismantled a lot of Grisdale but I wasn't sure if there was something up there still. Sad that it is gone.. I remember going there when I was a kid. Neat place.

With the amount of rain we get here and the the fact that we have, what? Thousands of miles of logging roads.. I think I'm just on a wild goose chase here. Really frustrating.

Like I said early on in this case.. Lindsey was reported missing almost 2 hours after she was last seen. Anyone who knows the logging roads around here could get almost anyplace in that amount of time.