WA - Lindsey Baum, 10, McCleary, 26 June 2009 - #10

[JenniferO]

I wonder if it was anywhere near the Smoke Shop Tavern?

Boy, if those old bars are still in the same buildings, just renamed with new owners, I bet they are infested with roaches.

O/T I worked in an old bar like that in Portland that in the basement still had the tunnel open down to the waterfront where they drugged patrons in the old days and put them on boats to be the crew

The bug man had a weekly stop at this bar and the roaches walked freely on my new stainless steel work area! Even the big fat old papa one's. It was disgusting.

No, I think it was across the river from the Smoke Shop (If I'm remembering correctly it was in South Aberdeen). Many of the old buildings in Aberdeen are now gone. Some remain, but not many.

I watched at TV show the other night about the tunnels under Portland. Amazing things.. I would LOVE LOVE LOVE To go see those.

 

[scandi]

I agree that she was more than likely a victim of opportunity. And, unfortunately, I believe as well that she is dead. Not quite sure where...there's so much water and other wooded areas, that I wouldn't bet on a logging road just yet, but agree that she's within 10 miles. Most of the time they are much closer than that to the abduction site. At this point, I hate to admit, I can't make any call on local or not. I feel it was, but nothing to back it up.

So as he maybe chose her as a matter of opportunity he might have disposed of her in the most convenient way. Close by and maybe a mile or two up some logging road. Quick in and quick out with no one the wiser at that time of night.

Every logging road gets muddy when it rains as most aren't even jept rocked and are just dirt roads from what I've seen.

 

[scandi]

No, I think it was across the river from the Smoke Shop (If I'm remembering correctly it was in South Aberdeen). Many of the old buildings in Aberdeen are now gone. Some remain, but not many.

I watched at TV show the other night about the tunnels under Portland. Amazing things.. I would LOVE LOVE LOVE To go see those.

There is a book about those tunnels too that is relatively new. Let me know when you're comin' and I'll go with you. I think they have tours.

My bar was on 3rd and Couch. As you took the last step down into the basement you were in a medium sized room. The owner told me that is where the men laid and waited, chained, many of them hurt or still woozy from being drugged.

Off that room was a smaller room where they put the men next to go when a ship was ready to load. From that room you could see the long tunnel stretch out going east and then it was boarded off. That tunnel still opens up at a spot I have seen right off the breakwall of the waterfront in Portland. They check it once in awhile and one could still walk thru these tunnels that all connected from the basements of Old Town leading out to where the ship was docked. So sad. He said many of them died waiting in that room. xoxox

 

[cyberswept]

ok, that friend doesn't remember exactly where it was. He thinks it was where the Northwest Passage is now but can't be positive. He was going to ask around and get back to me in the next few days.

Hi Jen, unless it was over 27 years ago, I know it wasn't the NWP. It has been there a long time. I think the Muddy Waters Lounge was attached to the same building as Captain's Corner in South Aberdeen, only it faced the Boulevard. I went in there one time and some guys started a fight, so my buddy and I slipped out. Never went back. It was a rough place, but then so was the Captain's Corner.

 

[boondock]

ok, that friend doesn't remember exactly where it was. He thinks it was where the Northwest Passage is now but can't be positive. He was going to ask around and get back to me in the next few days.

if you look up Muddy Waters here you can find the one in Aberdeen and the address, then if you Google the address it gives you the current name of the business there.

http://dor.wa.gov/content/doingbusiness/registermybusiness/brd/Results.aspx?RequestType=2&Criteria=muddy+waters&City=#brdResults

IMO it is not related to Tuba's post as it refers to a place that is muddy when it rains and isolated.

 

[cyberswept]

No, I think it was across the river from the Smoke Shop (If I'm remembering correctly it was in South Aberdeen). Many of the old buildings in Aberdeen are now gone. Some remain, but not many.

I watched at TV show the other night about the tunnels under Portland. Amazing things.. I would LOVE LOVE LOVE To go see those.

The Smoke Shop was near the Aberdeen / Hoquiam border on Simpson Avenue I believe. It's not close to the area we are talking about in South Aberdeen.

 

[JenniferO]

Hi Jen, unless it was over 27 years ago, I know it wasn't the NWP. It has been there a long time. I think the Muddy Waters Lounge was attached to the same building as Captain's Corner in South Aberdeen, only it faced the Boulevard. I went in there one time and some guys started a fight, so my buddy and I slipped out. Never went back. It was a rough place, but then so was the Captain's Corner.

I think the only time I was there.. it was like the 5th place we'd been to that night. I was.. umm for a lack of a better term.. messed up. lol So I don't really recall where exactly it was, but I knew it was in the same area of NWP or Captains Corner.

 

[cyberswept]

if you look up Muddy Waters here you can find the one in Aberdeen and the address, then if you Google the address it gives you the current name of the business there.

http://dor.wa.gov/content/doingbusiness/registermybusiness/brd/Results.aspx?RequestType=2&Criteria=muddy+waters&City=#brdResults

IMO it is not related to Tuba's post as it refers to a place that is muddy when it rains and isolated.

And that describes just about all of Western Washington.

 

[not_my_kids]

So as he maybe chose her as a matter of opportunity he might have disposed of her in the most convenient way. Close by and maybe a mile or two up some logging road. Quick in and quick out with no one the wiser at that time of night.

Every logging road gets muddy when it rains as most aren't even jept rocked and are just dirt roads from what I've seen.

But in that case, which more than likely is the case, wouldn't a logging road be convenient only if the person owns a 4x4 or other truck type vehicle? If we are looking at a person with a smaller type vehicle, then a ditch or lake might be more convenient? In the shots of McCleary, I have seen a lot of four wheel drives, but I have also seen a lot of sedans and other cars.

I'm not arguing with you, just getting my head back in the case. It's much easier when we still have the hope that the person's alive. Cadaver searches are harder.

 

[scandi]

Thank you scandi, I remember that case now.

None of the links to her pictures work anymore though

I'm currently working on a timeline of the time I knew David and when the incident between him and I happened. I'm curious if he was "active" back in the 80's. The more I read about him.. the worse my stomach hurts. I don't know how CCM does this stuff. I can sure tell I wasn't cut out to be a crime investigator. I'd wanna kill these guys myself.

Well she was discovered in '88. I don't know when the murders on the road out of Cosmopolis took place. But in that article CCM said Gerard wasn't ruled out as her murderer as it was an especially violent death with half of her skull blown away

Also, we don't know when he started killing. He could have worked up to that by just abusing women at first, then raping, torturing, etc until he had his first kill. Then I bet it was all downhill from there on. xox

PS I hope he serves every day of his 35 year sentence. He's the kind that probably daydreams about doing it again and again as he was so in to it. So violent about it. IMO.

 

[JenniferO]

The Smoke Shop was near the Aberdeen / Hoquiam border on Simpson Avenue I believe. It's not close to the area we are talking about in South Aberdeen.

No, the Smoke Shop was on Heron Street somewhere between Broadway and H st. (the original building was torn down years ago). Heron Street is the one way going out of Aberdeen

 

[scandi]

But in that case, which more than likely is the case, wouldn't a logging road be convenient only if the person owns a 4x4 or other truck type vehicle? If we are looking at a person with a smaller type vehicle, then a ditch or lake might be more convenient? In the shots of McCleary, I have seen a lot of four wheel drives, but I have also seen a lot of sedans and other cars.

I'm not arguing with you, just getting my head back in the case. It's much easier when we still have the hope that the person's alive. Cadaver searches are harder.

At the end of June with no mud I don't think one would need a 4x4 truck to drive those roads. I drove my Taurus on the logging roads at the Coast and just watched for pot holes. We made it all the way up near the crest where the huge mammoth trees were. We almost fainted, rounding a curve and suddenly there they were, like out of a movie. The area around them was fenced off to protect them. That was the experience for a lifetime. xoxoxo

 

[coastal]

JenniferO said:

Yay! My son is back safe on American soil! He'll be home next week!!!!

YAY and YIPPEE!

 

[JenniferO]

But in that case, which more than likely is the case, wouldn't a logging road be convenient only if the person owns a 4x4 or other truck type vehicle? If we are looking at a person with a smaller type vehicle, then a ditch or lake might be more convenient? In the shots of McCleary, I have seen a lot of four wheel drives, but I have also seen a lot of sedans and other cars.

I'm not arguing with you, just getting my head back in the case. It's much easier when we still have the hope that the person's alive. Cadaver searches are harder.

Nope, 4x4s aren't needed.

I own a 3 inch lowered Nissan Frontier and I drive it on a logging road daily. You just have to take it slow and watch for holes.

 

[McCleary]

But in that case, which more than likely is the case, wouldn't a logging road be convenient only if the person owns a 4x4 or other truck type vehicle? If we are looking at a person with a smaller type vehicle, then a ditch or lake might be more convenient? In the shots of McCleary, I have seen a lot of four wheel drives, but I have also seen a lot of sedans and other cars.

I'm not arguing with you, just getting my head back in the case. It's much easier when we still have the hope that the person's alive. Cadaver searches are harder.

The logging roads around McCleary, when the gates are open (which most of them are currently closed due to fire danger) are actually pretty accessible by car. There are potholes, but the roads are usually kept well maintained, especially the last few years as there have been many harvests. And I heard that some of the gates were actually open in June-early July, so it would have been possible for anyone with a vehicle to get into the woods.

Adendum: There were those 2 drunk idiots who crashed their truck on a logging road outside of town...

 

[JenniferO]

Well she was discovered in '88. I don't know when the murders on the road out of Cosmopolis took place. But in that article CCM said Gerard wasn't ruled out as her murderer as it was an especially violent death with half of her skull blown away

Also, we don't know when he started killing. He could have worked up to that by just abusing women at first, then raping, torturing, etc until he had his first kill. Then I bet it was all downhill from there on. xox

PS I hope he serves every day of his 35 year sentence. He's the kind that probably daydreams about doing it again and again as he was so in to it. So violent about it. IMO.

So far they go like this
suspect in a murder in 1991
suspect of a house fire where four people perished in 1995
murder in 1996
rape in 1997
attempted murder in 1999

So him being a suspect in the 88 thing.. doesn't surprise me.

 

[JenniferO]

The logging roads around McCleary, when the gates are open (which most of them are currently closed due to fire danger) are actually pretty accessible by car. There are potholes, but the roads are usually kept well maintained, especially the last few years as there have been many harvests. And I heard that some of the gates were actually open in June-early July, so it would have been possible for anyone with a vehicle to get into the woods.

Adendum: There were those 2 drunk idiots who crashed their truck on a logging road outside of town...

I think we lost 3 people in our senior year from stupidity like this.

 

[JenniferO]

if you look up Muddy Waters here you can find the one in Aberdeen and the address, then if you Google the address it gives you the current name of the business there.

http://dor.wa.gov/content/doingbusiness/registermybusiness/brd/Results.aspx?RequestType=2&Criteria=muddy+waters&City=#brdResults

IMO it is not related to Tuba's post as it refers to a place that is muddy when it rains and isolated.

Thank you!

It was in the building where Captains Corner is now.

 

[scandi]

So far they go like this
suspect in a murder in 1991
suspect of a house fire where four people perished in 1995
murder in 1996
rape in 1997
attempted murder in 1999

So him being a suspect in the 88 thing.. doesn't surprise me.

It wouldn't surprise me either Jennifer. I've been looking for a photo of Gerard to no avail just to see what he looked like.

 

[JenniferO]

“I will find my daughter”

Power lines hang low over the narrow, gravel-lined stretch of asphalt in McCleary called Maple Street.

Cars roll past rows of small houses. Sprinklers spin in the front yards. Shrubs and street lights stand on either side of the road.

From the front step of her nearby home, Melissa Baum can almost see its intersection with Fifth Street where her 11-year-old daughter took her last known steps into oblivion.

“I feel like she’s right under my nose and I can’t find her,” she said.

Baum sat on her front step earlier this week, staring eastward toward Maple Street with the faint plinking of wind chimes behind her. She lit a cigarette.

“It’s really frustrating,” she said.

The family dog, Cadence, curled up on the concrete at her feet. Signs of support hung in the windows. Empty Diet Coke cans and fountain drinks sat stacked beside her chair after hours of waiting and watching the end of the road.

“It was all a fluke that whole night,” Baum explained quietly. “It’s like everything fell into place. The one time she left the house without her cell phone. The one time she started walking home alone.”



A prayer candle with an image of the Virgin Mary rested among the cups and cigarette butts.

“That wasn’t a usual night,” she said. “It was a very unusual night and very unusual circumstances.”



More of the article here