WA - Lindsey Baum, 10, McCleary, 26 June 2009 - #14

[eyes4crime]

I don't know if this POI is guilty or not. That's up to the judge and jury if it's ever taken that far.

But they have to start somewhere, right? I mean every SO, bank robber, murderer, criminal in general has to have a first offense.

Guess that's my point. Usually there is escalation of acting out criminal behavior. Rarely does one start out with a kidnapping/possible murder in the hometown. To tell you the truth, I don't know much about the bank robber...I do know quite a bit about pedophiles and psychopaths...I've done research with them...children, adjudicated adolescents, and adults. There's probably a ton we don't know about this guy, so I'll reserve my thoughts until more info comes out.

thanks again JenniferO for all your hard work in the Lindsey case. It's not easy to search for a child...take good care of yourself. :blowkiss:

 

[JenniferO]

eyes, I agree that usually there is an escalation of the criminal behavior. But there is an exception to every rule. Maybe the perp (again, not saying it's THIS young man. I'm talking in general terms) hadn't been caught for any other criminal activity in the past. No one really knows. We can only speculate.

Thank you. When this is over and done with I plan to take a long vacation to someplace without internet access.

 

[not_my_kids]

Seeing as how I have missed a lot, I have to ask, there is talk of crime scenes. Last I knew, we didn't even have a crime scene, let alone evidence at one. Do we have a crime scene, primary or secondary, or even a hint of where a crime scene may be?

 

[SeriouslySearching]

I can't help but ask: How does a 23yo son, who has one misdemeanor in 2006 for possession/consumption...jump to a crime scene of kidnapping/possible murder..with no witneses or evidence? And what and the heck would the motive be? Something doesn't fit for me...if this young person is the perp - I don't get it! mho

Not every killer, rapist, or criminal has a history of being caught or even suspected. The majority of Sexual Offenders have a past involving sometimes hundreds of victims before they are ever caught and convicted.

Like I said before, I believe the motive will be sexual assault ending either by accidental death or by murder. It is only my opinion and guess at this point so I am not saying it is by any means what did happen. No one knows.

Here is one scenario: Any young man, not saying this one, could have the hots for a young girl and decide to flirt with them. Perhaps the young girl is receptive to a point and flirts back not realizing there is any danger associated with the behavior. The man becomes aggressive when the young girl begins to feel threatened so she pushes him away and he reacts in a violent manner fueled by rejection, rage, and sexual frustration.

As far as there being no evidence, the results aren't back yet. We do not know what LE found during their initial searches nor do we know what the searchers have found which was then addressed by LE. They confiscated items such as condoms, mags, and a car. The only reason I can come up with for the first two is they found something earlier to test them against for a match. They did not do the search without Probable Cause. It would be very unlikely for LE not to have sufficient reason to seek the warrants.

 

[eyes4crime]

eyes, I agree that usually there is an escalation of the criminal behavior. But there is an exception to every rule. Maybe the perp (again, not saying it's THIS young man. I'm talking in general terms) hadn't been caught for any other criminal activity in the past. No one really knows. We can only speculate.

Thank you. When this is over and done with I plan to take a long vacation to someplace without internet access.

You're so right - there are always exceptions!

I don't blame you - no bloggers, no internet, no crimes to think about. just peaceful days for awhile.

I got all upset over my kitten cause she is not mewing or meowing...I took her to the Vet this am and he asked: Does she have anything to mew about? Wouldn't it be nice to have that life for a day or two? Have a good day JenniferO.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Seeing as how I have missed a lot, I have to ask, there is talk of crime scenes. Last I knew, we didn't even have a crime scene, let alone evidence at one. Do we have a crime scene, primary or secondary, or even a hint of where a crime scene may be?

WB~ Not yet. The "crime scene" is still technically where she was last seen.

 

[scandi]

It's not a new rule. (Believe me, if you out a poster in a PM, and the person you PM'd forwards that to a mod, all hell will break loose!)
However, the PM's aren't moderated and are private. So, I'm sure we're all in our best behavior there. :angel:

From the Rules and Etiquette thread -- "ALL of the general rules listed in this forum apply to the Private Messaging system, especially soliciting, advertising and sexually related PM’s. Violating any of these rules in the PM system will result in immediate removal from the community."http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2959057#post2959057

O/T Several years ago I had a poster come on to me in with sexual overtones in a PM and I never reported it. What I did was not answer the PM, and that solved it perfectly. LOL Plus that poster stll belongs here and is now a good old timer. xox

 

[nothingnew]

One thing I find odd already is the immediate public defensiveness of the family whos home was searched. Statements of suing and so forth are a little hinky to me as testing has not been completed yet on the items taken. I just find this odd...
MOO of course

If it were me and I was put into what I would consider a witch hunt you bet your behind I would be making legal threats. Impossible to prosecute probably but it would let LE know that I was not going to sit back and let them mess with me or mine without some professional input. What I find odd is that LE disclosed that they took condoms and mags from the home. Why was that information disclosed? I read that they have served prior warrants at different homes but I don't recall hearing about what they took away from those houses.

 

[not_my_kids]

WB~ Not yet. The "crime scene" is still technically where she was last seen.

Thank you, and thank you. I didn't think I had missed the discovery of a crime scene, just making sure.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

I got all upset over my kitten cause she is not mewing or meowing...I took her to the Vet this am and he asked: Does she have anything to mew about? Wouldn't it be nice to have that life for a day or two? Have a good day JenniferO.

Off Topic: Funny..because I thought the same thing when I read about your kitty this morning! I meant to ask you if she is purring yet. Try "purring" with her. Some little kittens need some lessons from their "mom". Glad to hear she is better than OK!

 

[scandi]

WB~ Not yet. The "crime scene" is still technically where she was last seen.

On Mon nite I read the second witness said she spotted Lindsey on Maple and 5th. That was news to me, but now reading that blip in the paper that she was last seen in front of the Beehive {is that correct, or something similar} I am thinking the second witnessing was right on. MK only saw her walk to 7th which was our reference point, and I think the second witness and the new link expand that. It might have figured into LE's work-up on presenting probable cause to the Judge. IMO

 

[scandi]

If it were me and I was put into what I would consider a witch hunt you bet your behind I would be making legal threats. Impossible to prosecute probably but it would let LE know that I was not going to sit back and let them mess with me or mine without some professional input. What I find odd is that LE disclosed that they took condoms and mags from the home. Why was that information disclosed? I read that they have served prior warrants at different homes but I don't recall hearing about what they took away from those houses.

Plus, they didn't name a POI from those other searches, eh? Good to see you Nothing New.


Good to see you again Not My Kids, and it is good to see you here posting again. :blowkiss:

 

[STEADFAST]

If it were me and I was put into what I would consider a witch hunt you bet your behind I would be making legal threats. Impossible to prosecute probably but it would let LE know that I was not going to sit back and let them mess with me or mine without some professional input. What I find odd is that LE disclosed that they took condoms and mags from the home. Why was that information disclosed? I read that they have served prior warrants at different homes but I don't recall hearing about what they took away from those houses.

If the evidence turns up nothing, then the people living at the searched property can rest easy that suspicions against them have been quieted. However, if evidence does come back as a result of the search, then the people at the house could hardly consider it to have been a witch hunt. I think we all benefit when a legally executed search warrant leads to answers and additional information, whether the searched property ends up being involved in the crime or not.

 

[eyes4crime]

Not every killer, rapist, or criminal has a history of being caught or even suspected. The majority of Sexual Offenders have a past involving sometimes hundreds of victims before they are ever caught and convicted.

Like I said before, I believe the motive will be sexual assault ending either by accidental death or by murder. It is only my opinion and guess at this point so I am not saying it is by any means what did happen. No one knows.

Here is one scenario: Any young man, not saying this one, could have the hots for a young girl and decide to flirt with them. Perhaps the young girl is receptive to a point and flirts back not realizing there is any danger associated with the behavior. The man becomes aggressive when the young girl begins to feel threatened so she pushes him away and he reacts in a violent manner fueled by rejection, rage, and sexual frustration.

As far as there being no evidence, the results aren't back yet. We do not know what LE found during their initial searches nor do we know what the searchers have found which was then addressed by LE. They confiscated items such as condoms, mags, and a car. The only reason I can come up with for the first two is they found something earlier to test them against for a match. They did not do the search without Probable Cause. It would be very unlikely for LE not to have sufficient reason to seek the warrants.

Obviously, the pedophiles I have done research on/with have been caught. I've seen children as young as 5- 10yo with several victims. I've seen adjudicated adolescents have as many as 100 victims (that's why I'm an advocate of NOT sealing juvenile sex offender records). And adults - some escalate into sadistic, torture, and murderous activities, and others walk away feeling they have terrified their victim enough so they will never be caught. It's an impossible population to do research on because it's always 'after the fact'...after the arrest or placement. Chemical castration doesn't work - the fantasy life about children continues to thrive. Nothing works...nothing yet.

I think you could be very right - this kid, apparently a pedophile, covered up a sexual assault with a murder. If he did do this and wasn't caught and punished, he would be a very dangerous person in society... cause we have found sexual violence doesn't go backwards...never goes back to giving teddy bears and looking for kitty cats..it escalates! mho

 

[eyes4crime]

On Mon nite I read the second witness said she spotted Lindsey on Maple and 5th. That was news to me, but now reading that blip in the paper that she was last seen in front of the Beehive {is that correct, or something similar} I am thinking the second witnessing was right on. MK only saw her walk to 7th which was our reference point, and I think the second witness and the new link expand that. It might have figured into LE's work-up on presenting probable cause to the Judge. IMO

I don't remember it being any other then between 5th & 6th where she was spotted by two different people. If there's a link, I'll change the time-line to represent the different locations. TIA

 

[Kimster]

When it comes to first time offenders, I think the arrest of Chris Coleman has baffled me the most. I don't think this man ever even had a speeding ticket in his life and he ends up killing his whole family?

There is no understanding these things. I think that is why we are here.

 

[not_my_kids]

Plus, they didn't name a POI from those other searches, eh? Good to see you Nothing New.


Good to see you again Not My Kids, and it is good to see you here posting again. :blowkiss:

Good to see you too, I was very hesitant about coming back. But I kept hearing that there were warrants served and such and I knew I would never figure out on who or for what without either coming here, or reading a thousand news articles, half of which contradict themselves.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

If it were me and I was put into what I would consider a witch hunt you bet your behind I would be making legal threats. Impossible to prosecute probably but it would let LE know that I was not going to sit back and let them mess with me or mine without some professional input. What I find odd is that LE disclosed that they took condoms and mags from the home. Why was that information disclosed? I read that they have served prior warrants at different homes but I don't recall hearing about what they took away from those houses.

Welcome to WS, Nothingnew~

The difference, imo (in my opinion), is the search itself. LE said they have served over a dozen or so already and no one picked up on them. I have to think it is because of the scale of the searches. This was a major search which was conducted on the property and the homes. LE could not keep it under the radar and the press became involved. Like it or not, the press does have an in with LE and leaks do happen. However, the family has been so outspoken I would not be surprised to learn the information came directly from them.

It doesn't sound to me like LE went on any witch hunt or is doing this for any reason other than evidence or solid information was obtained to lead them in this direction.

A little girl is missing and while I understand people want to insure their rights are protected...I say the fact a little girl is missing trumps everything. If a person has nothing to hide then let them search without a huge dramatic scene about it.

 

[eyes4crime]

Off Topic: Funny..because I thought the same thing when I read about your kitty this morning! I meant to ask you if she is purring yet. Try "purring" with her. Some little kittens need some lessons from their "mom". Glad to hear she is better than OK!

OT - She purrs all the time - just never gave a meow or mew. I thought it could be something in her throat, so I brought Chloe to the vet this am. The vet told me if I wanted to hear her meow just hold off on her food for an hour or so...I would hear all the meowing I needed. My family has watched me trying to teach Chloe how to meow for days and they all think I need a long rest. lol

 

[SCSleuther]

If the evidence turns up nothing, then the people living at the searched property can rest easy that suspicions against them have been quieted. However, if evidence does come back as a result of the search, then the people at the house could hardly consider it to have been a witch hunt. I think we all benefit when a legally executed search warrant leads to answers and additional information, whether the searched property ends up being involved in the crime or not.

Hi All, I am not taking any sides, or defending anyone one way or another. And I don't post very often, usually just lurk in the corner.

But I do want to relate a story of false accusations and how they can be dangerous and harmful to good innocent citizens.

I was recently involved with a case of "false accusations", whereas LE came storming in, SW's waving in the air, handcuffs slapped on, and person dragged away in front of their family and neighbors, charged with a felony (not murder/SO or a violent felony), thrown in the slammer until bail could be made....all to this person's/familly's/neighbor's bewilderment. This person lost friends/jobs/etc because of this arrest.

Well, after several years (yes, YEARS) of fighting these false charges, this person was fully exonerated, no fault was found, record expunged, and the DA is now deciding whether to press charges against the person(s) who made the false accusations in the first place. Turns out, someone just "had it in" for this person, and happened to be golfing buddies with the signing judge AND the arresting officer -so was able to get a SW signed - on a weekend night, without true "cause" . (Did LE/judge know the "cause" was made up? Who knows...)

Granted now- Where I live, good ol' boys run the roost, and if you are not one of them, well, let's say ya better have a lot of money for a good defense attorney...

Of course, the community/neighbors don't know the whole story, or how it turned out that this person was totally innocent...they only know what they "saw" at the time... cops slapping cuffs on this person and hauling them away...so neighbors figure, "well, they MUST be a BAD person, because LE would never do a SW or bust into a house for no reason, right?"

Well. the answer is: WRONG !!


...I can basically go in to LE, say that my neighbor -(the one I detest, or whose dog barks too much, or whose kids broke my window) - is running a brothel or a drug house, and they will bust in there and have her arrested, and ask questions later. And LE will claim it was to protect the public, or that they had "reliable sources"... whatever. (Trust me, I ran that scenario by a defense lawyer friend of mine, and although he didn't openly agree with me, for good reason of course, I did get a wink and a nod....) Maybe it's just the part of the country I live in, but I don't think so. There are LE everywhere who will act on "false information"... and "pretty" it up for the judge to make sure he signs the SW..

grrrrrrrrrrrrr !! I guess I just truly believe in innocent until PROVEN guilty (by a court of law, or at least by a DA who finally sees through the fabrications...)

But we all know, it is the court of public opinion that does the most harm to innocent citizens....

JMO of course !!