WA WA - Seattle, WhtFem 30-50, 159UFWA, UP12916, alias 'Mary Anderson', copper IUD, breast surgery scars, Oct'96

[beavt]

Elaine Marie Allenbach, MP4528, went missing March 13, 1986 from Vancouver BC and was last seen boarding a bus to Seattle. She is originally from Seattle and was known to frequently travel between Vancouver and Seattle. She was involved in the sex trade and it sounds like she wanted out. Elaine is listed as aged 20 and 5’6” and weighing 130lbs at the time of her disappearance. It sounds more like she was a call girl according to this article; “One of Elaine's regulars was a Chinese businessman who would hire her along with other women for a night aboard a ship. What she saw on the ship was "horrifying enough to scare her into leaving" the sex trade and the city. "It was a huge paying job," says Dina.” Further, she was a witness in an attempted murder trial. Would have been the perfect time to start over, perhaps with the help of a generous client. Elaine came from a large family in Seattle, being one of six children. Her pictures depict a very well put together person which would track with this Doe.

 

[MarziPanda]

Elaine Marie Allenbach, MP4528, went missing March 13, 1986 from Vancouver BC and was last seen boarding a bus to Seattle. She is originally from Seattle and was known to frequently travel between Vancouver and Seattle. She was involved in the sex trade and it sounds like she wanted out. Elaine is listed as aged 20 and 5’6” and weighing 130lbs at the time of her disappearance. It sounds more like she was a call girl according to this article; “One of Elaine's regulars was a Chinese businessman who would hire her along with other women for a night aboard a ship. What she saw on the ship was "horrifying enough to scare her into leaving" the sex trade and the city. "It was a huge paying job," says Dina.” Further, she was a witness in an attempted murder trial. Would have been the perfect time to start over, perhaps with the help of a generous client. Elaine came from a large family in Seattle, being one of six children. Her pictures depict a very well put together person which would track with this Doe.
View attachment 544063

This Doe was of Iranian or possibly Afghan ancestry, which it seems like Elaine wasn't. She does look similar! But incorrect ancestry.

 

[lonewanderer]

This Doe was of Iranian or possibly Afghan ancestry, which it seems like Elaine wasn't. She does look similar! But incorrect ancestry.

IIRC the Doe was also nearly 300 pounds. Elaine was 130?

 

[beavt]

IIRC the Doe was also nearly 300 pounds. Elaine was 130?

Doe was listed as 240. Elaine listed as 130 ten years prior. It’s not impossible to have gained a ton of weight over ten years, but yes, improbable. Just adding to the pile. Thank you

 

[Hollyllennoco]

This woman’s age progressed photos looks like similar. Going to do some more sleuthing.

Missing: Nerenberg, Audrey Lyn

troopers.ny.gov

 

[lonewanderer]

This woman’s age progressed photos looks like similar. Going to do some more sleuthing.

Missing: Nerenberg, Audrey Lyn

troopers.ny.gov

The weight discrepancy casts major doubt for me.

 

[sasha17]

Just to add, the she had a dental plate but it was never found. But there’s evidence she had one.

I think you're right. The dental plate was in Mary's mouth when she was found in the hotel, right? If it got lost somewhere in the Seattle police archives, I don't know how it would have ended up in New York and certainly not found its way back to the place where Mary could have been from.

 

[Hollyllennoco]

I think you're right. The dental plate was in Mary's mouth when she was found in the hotel, right? If it got lost somewhere in the Seattle police archives, I don't know how it would have ended up in New York and certainly not found its way back to the place where Mary could have been from.

Dental plate wasn’t found with Mary but evidence suggests she had one at some point.

 

[Hollyllennoco]

The weight discrepancy casts major doubt for me.

She went missing 20 years prior. People’s weight can change with age.

 

[CCJD]

Dental plate wasn’t found with Mary but evidence suggests she had one at some point.

From Doe Network:

Identifiers​

Dentals: Unknown. Denture plate present.

159UFWA

 

[Hollyllennoco]

From Doe Network:

Identifiers​

Dentals: Unknown. Denture plate present.

159UFWA

Nope. Medical examiner states that she removed it and it wasn’t with her.

SEATTLE: Mary Anderson — Cosmic Bigfoot

On this episode of Washed Away, I'm going to tell you about the unusual death of Mary Anderson, a mysterious woman who claimed to have no relatives, no one to care about what happened to her and yet she's made a lasting impression on dozens of strangers, including myself.

www.cosmicbigfoot.com

 

[lonewanderer]

She went missing 20 years prior. People’s weight can change with age.

It’s not impossible, but I find it highly, highly, highly, unlikely.

That is a drastic amount of weight put on to go from 115 to 240. If she was 170 or more, I could be more inclined to believe it.

 

[Hollyllennoco]

It’s not impossible, but I find it highly, highly, highly, unlikely.

That is a drastic amount of weight put on to go from 115 to 240. If she was 170 or more, I could be more inclined to believe it.

Uhm… she was depressed. Could have had eating disorders most of her life. Depression can seriously change people. It’s not hard to imagine someone being depressed and taking medications that cause drastic weight gain and be too sad to leave the house to excercize.

 

[MarziPanda]

I looked into Audrey. I can't find anything that says she was depressed, only that she had schizophrenia. She apparently had the mental capacity of a fourteen year old. I doubt that she would be able to live independently for all those years, and Mary seems to have been very put together and had clearly planned her demise out carefully. Audrey has olive skin but everything online says she is white. Her surname is apparently Ashkenazi Jewish. Ashkenazi DNA shows very clearly in a test, whilst Mary's DNA showed her to be of Iranian/Afghan ancestry. Audrey's parents have tried very hard to find her and I find it unlikely that they don't have her DNA in NAMUS, so she would be ruled out automatically in that case.

Stranger things have happened but I think it's unlikely to be her.

 

[Hollyllennoco]

I looked into Audrey. I can't find anything that says she was depressed, only that she had schizophrenia. She apparently had the mental capacity of a fourteen year old. I doubt that she would be able to live independently for all those years, and Mary seems to have been very put together and had clearly planned her demise out carefully. Audrey has olive skin but everything online says she is white. Her surname is apparently Ashkenazi Jewish. Ashkenazi DNA shows very clearly in a test, whilst Mary's DNA showed her to be of Iranian/Afghan ancestry. Audrey's parents have tried very hard to find her and I find it unlikely that they don't have her DNA in NAMUS, so she would be ruled out automatically in that case.

Stranger things have happened but I think it's unlikely to be her.

Good points you’re probably right.
I still want to pursue the Frewsburg NY lead though

 

[GloSeattle]

I looked into Audrey. I can't find anything that says she was depressed, only that she had schizophrenia. She apparently had the mental capacity of a fourteen year old. I doubt that she would be able to live independently for all those years, and Mary seems to have been very put together and had clearly planned her demise out carefully. Audrey has olive skin but everything online says she is white. Her surname is apparently Ashkenazi Jewish. Ashkenazi DNA shows very clearly in a test, whilst Mary's DNA showed her to be of Iranian/Afghan ancestry. Audrey's parents have tried very hard to find her and I find it unlikely that they don't have her DNA in NAMUS, so she would be ruled out automatically in that case.

Stranger things have happened but I think it's unlikely to be her.

Audrey is also too short. Mary was 5'8" tall. While people can gain 50lbs in a year or two, no one can grow 4" after age 18. So yeah, this is definitely not Audrey.

 

[GloSeattle]

I looked into Audrey. I can't find anything that says she was depressed, only that she had schizophrenia. She apparently had the mental capacity of a fourteen year old. I doubt that she would be able to live independently for all those years, and Mary seems to have been very put together and had clearly planned her demise out carefully. Audrey has olive skin but everything online says she is white. Her surname is apparently Ashkenazi Jewish. Ashkenazi DNA shows very clearly in a test, whilst Mary's DNA showed her to be of Iranian/Afghan ancestry. Audrey's parents have tried very hard to find her and I find it unlikely that they don't have her DNA in NAMUS, so she would be ruled out automatically in that case.

Stranger things have happened but I think it's unlikely to be her.

In looking at hebephrenic schizophrenia symptoms and the fact Mary didn't interract with anyone at the hotel after check-in she may not have exibited some of the symptoms associated with hebephrenic schizophrenia where one would know if Mary had this condition (which is now just referred to as schizophrenia post 90's) however, depression is a natural bi-product of patients having to deal with and live with schizophrenia. The pill bottle is a tell, some medication that could be being taken: hypertension (common with those over weight), antidepressant (prozac was quite popular as were other drugs sertraline etc...) stopping taking antidepressants without guidance and monitoring by your doctor can have horrible consequences... perhaps that's what happened in Mary's life that caused her to finally break? I don't think Mary is Audrey at all, but Audrey's case served to remind me of the empty label-less pill bottle and that no one who commits suicide is not depressed. We don't have any notes on any blood work they did on Mary. I'm not sure if that's kept secret to further id her, or if after her cyanide they just assumed it would be an easy case and identification since she left her phone number, name and address on her registration card so no need to? I can't help but think almost 30 years later perhaps King County Medical Examiner might reconsider that stance since most of the people she would know will be dead soon and there's every possibility a doctor or nurse or friend might recognize her from her medicine cabinet? Maybe she was one of the first to get an IUD in the 80's (copper IUD so old the id number had worn off), or first to take Prozac? Or maybe some other substance was in her tox screen to give others a clue? I know you can test someone's bone marrow and find out where they grew up, was that ever done and are the results being withheld? Those of us Mary's age, who've wondered and called the ME's office and talked to other generous profilers will be dead ourselves soon, how long before the ME releases all the information to help give Mary a real name so we can all focus on others whose homes need to be found? Only Kathy can answer that question.

 

[MarziPanda]

but Audrey's case served to remind me of the empty label-less pill bottle and that no one who commits suicide is not depressed.

RSBM

I mostly agree with you except for this part. There definitely are people who end their own lives for a wide variety of reasons who are not depressed. We see it all the time here on WS, people who have committed a terrible crime and take their own lives so they don't have to face consequences. Assisted euthanasia is legal in a few countries now, and one of the caveats is that for the most part you aren't allowed to do it if you're depressed. You have to be doing it for the 'right reasons' - that is, to escape a terrible, horrific death and/or inescapable pain. Some may take their own life to spite a loved one, to escape financial woes, because they believe they're 'joining' a loved one, to escape the social consequences of something taboo in their culture (such as becoming pregnant outside of marriage) or simply because they are very old and they're done living. In these examples people may be depressed, but they may not be.

I don't think these apply to Mary (who likely was depressed, given the pill bottle) but they might. She might have had an illness that would have led to a terrible death, that wouldn't show up on an autopsy. She might have done something taboo in her culture like running away from a husband. Unfortunately until she's identified we just don't know. Even once she is identified we might never know - because at that point it's not anyone's business.

 

[GloSeattle]

It said in the Unresolved Podcast episode that Mary arrived at the hotel via Cab 90 minutes after placing the phone call to the hotel to get a reservation. I wonder if police ever interviewed the cab driver who pick Mary up and i wonder where the driver may have picked up Mary from? If it was from one of the airports, a train station or even a suburb like Everett that could provide a clue to where she was picked up from and lead to her identity.

Yes, they did interview the cabbie who had no recollection of her and where she was picked up whatsoever. I have my own theories on how this all transpired around the hotel before she arrived, but it's only theories and not facts.

 

[GloSeattle]

RSBM

I mostly agree with you except for this part. There definitely are people who end their own lives for a wide variety of reasons who are not depressed. We see it all the time here on WS, people who have committed a terrible crime and take their own lives so they don't have to face consequences. Assisted euthanasia is legal in a few countries now, and one of the caveats is that for the most part you aren't allowed to do it if you're depressed. You have to be doing it for the 'right reasons' - that is, to escape a terrible, horrific death and/or inescapable pain. Some may take their own life to spite a loved one, to escape financial woes, because they believe they're 'joining' a loved one, to escape the social consequences of something taboo in their culture (such as becoming pregnant outside of marriage) or simply because they are very old and they're done living. In these examples people may be depressed, but they may not be.

I don't think these apply to Mary (who likely was depressed, given the pill bottle) but they might. She might have had an illness that would have led to a terrible death, that wouldn't show up on an autopsy. She might have done something taboo in her culture like running away from a husband. Unfortunately until she's identified we just don't know. Even once she is identified we might never know - because at that point it's not anyone's business.

I only base my conclusion of the relationship of suicide and depression. Of almost every article I've read by experts, it's found most are depressed. That's why I said she was "likely depressed." Here's John's Hopkins, there are countless others to support the hypothesis she was depressed. Depression and Suicide
I'm somewhat sure if there was a crime she committed or she was escaping a marriage details would be out there (hairbrush from residence, past clothing worn, shower drain hair, fingerprints) something that would have id'd her now with either the police or with all these organizations who have her information and dna sample. But let's say she committed a horrific crime and couldn't bear it or the thought of incarceration - you'd theoretically have to be depressed at the thought of either of these and wish to take your life. As for a debilitating disease she was thoroughly examined and determined to be of good health. They take out the liver, heart, lungs, kidneys, all organs to weigh and examine - they can't do that with a living person - so I trust that the findings were accurate and complete. I dunno, again, until she's id'd and/or the ME releases more information to help us id her we are in the dark still, 28 years later. I think this is absolutely horrible of King county to have such disregard for closure of the unidentified. The hell with protocol, do what's right King Co. Everyone deserves to have a name for God's sake.