WA WA - Shantina Smiley, 29, & Azriel Carver, 8 (fnd deceased), Olympia, Mar 2010 - #3

[SheWhoMustNotBeNamed]

Knowing nothing at all, I would think that if he was inside the van when the tide came through the van, he would have been tossed about rather roughly before he went out a door. Therefore, he would have been full of massive bruising, that is if he was alive and in the van when the tide came in.

I understand that people don't bruise once they are deceased. I could be wrong.

moo

It is my understanding that bruising can occur after death, for a certain amount of time. However, it usually takes a significant amount of force.

 

[Miss Optimism]

I think it is somewhat sadistic, to take a recovering alcoholic on a wine-tasting vacation.....

He would not be the first loved on to believe the "I am in a different place now", "I can drink responsibly and socially", that is all behind me now nonsense.

Honestly, if I dated someone who had problems with alcohol, I wouldn't know what I should or shouldn't do. Unless he got counseling with her and received advice as a loved one of an alcoholic, how is he supposed to know? Isn't it each of our responsibility to make decisions of what is best for us for ourselves?

 

[houndstooth]

Based on how the van was parked on the beach when it was found the next morning, with the rear of the van facing the water, the rear of the van would have been lower than the front.

Exiting the van through the hatch would've put them directly in the deeper part of the water. IMO, it would have made more sense to exit from the side - through the sliding door, especially since any water pressure would not have prevented the sliding door from opening, and they could have also hung onto the van as they made it to shore.

Hey Sorrell. I was relooking at the van and thinking about the tracks on the beach. It appears in a way that the backward and forward path not a true circle would have helped to loosen the sand and help it get stuck. Then again, it's hard to say what actually caused the tires to sink in as the weight of the tires and the motion of the tide would have caused the tires to be dug in somewhat. But, try as I might to follow the path onto the beach, I could only see it if she backed onto the beach. If the deeper tracks near the top are the heavier tow truck's then there looks like only one set of tracks from the van before her up pulling forward and back a few times before getting stuck, but none that show her turning around on the beach itself so she must have backed in. Take a look and tell me what you think?

 

[sorrell skye]

http://www.enotes.com/forensic-science/antemortem-injuries

Excerpt from article:

After death, the body usually does not bleed. However, there are exceptions. For instance, when a person drowns, their body usually floats face down and this results in the head becoming congested with blood. If the cadaver receives a head injury by being buffeted around in the water and colliding with boats or propellers, then there could be some evidence of bleeding. Scalp wounds sustained after death may also leak some blood.

It can be especially difficult to distinguish between injuries inflicted in the very last few minutes of life and those caused postmortem. If the person collapses, there may be areas of laceration (cuts or scrapes) to the head and scalp which may be very hard to interpret.

After death, the blood stays liquid in the vessels and no longer clots. Careless handling of a cadaver may produce some post-mortem bruising which may need to be distinguished from antemortem bruising. Blood also tends to pool under gravity after death, causing a bruised appearance in the lower limbs, arms, hands, and feet known as lividity. Some of the smaller vessels may even hemorrhage under the pressure of this pooled blood. These bruises could be confused with ante-mortem bruising.

Antemortem injuries show signs of inflammation, while postmortem injuries do not.

 

[Jules71]

Those are really good points. I hadn't thought about the timelines that way. But that is so true. She was doing something else. She didn't even go to buy the wine until 9pm. Unless she had other alcohol with her?

I definitely think she went down to the beach earlier. Perhaps calling RS before a rendezvous with someone? (kind of a guilty call?)

If she is alive (where is the purse and overnight bag) then I think she is with someone she knows.

I did a search and I found the closest store and gas to be Gull Harbor Merchantile - which is 3.7 miles away from where they found the van. She could have walked up and used the phone.

Just a thought...

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=8345+Zangle+Rd+NE,+Olympia,+WA+98506&daddr=Gull+Harbor+Mercantile,+4932+Boston+Harbor+Road+Northeast,+Olympia,+WA+98506-1899&hl=en&geocode=&mra=ls&sll=47.10412,-122.882595&sspn=0.006353,0.016973&ie=UTF8&ll=47.126447,-122.88208&spn=0.053726,0.135784&t=h&z=13

That mercantile is the same place she stopped before going to the Williams. It was said to be closed. It looks like from google maps there is a pay phone next to the ice machine. Why didn't she use the pay phone then, rather than going to the Williams home to use the phone?

 

[LogicalMinds]

To me this is simply a tragedy...

coulda woulda shoulda.....the details don't really matter

I doubt if her hubby to be was expert in dealing with alcoholics...

I don't think the people who came in contact with her had the ability or even the reason to "stop her" and I doubt that they could

more resources for mental health/addiction counseling/affordable or free rehabs....?? State social service policies that stop kids from falling through the cracks....a way for distressed family members to get "immediate" help when they sense a person might be a danger to themself or others???

I don't know.....I just don't know

Maybe a future of "interlock" device on each and every car where someone can't drink and drive??? (where it measures blood alcohol to turn on ignition, through one's palm sweat?)

and even that might might not have worked....seems as if she parked there in order to drink and the tide somehow trapped them??? (My theory at any rate)

Such a tragedy....I keep replaying the pictures of little Azierel dancing and "fooling" around in the store :cry:

 

[BeanE]

RS did not take SS on a wine tasting vacation. What we have is his blog saying they went on a vacation, and that one of many stops was at a vineyard one day, where RS sampled the wine.

There is nothing saying that SS had any wine, let alone that RS in any way encouraged or condoned it.

There are no references in the blog to SS consuming alcohol.

There is one picture in the blog from another stop on the same vacation, in which SS has a mug of beer on the table in front of her.

This is how rumors grow legs. That one mug of beer on the table has grown into a sadistic wine tasting vacation.

 

[sorrell skye]

Is the pic you're talking about Hound?

If those are the tire tracks of the van, then it looks like she turned the van around on higher ground (near the pier/dock/boardwalk thingy) and then backed the van down to water line.

But it's hard to say if those are the van tire tracks or maybe the tire tracks from the tow truck.

I also notice two sets of footprints in the same photo. But IDK whose they are.

ETA: Wanted to add that it looks like there are several sets of tire tracks in the pic. So I suppose it could be both the tire tracks from the van AND the tire tracks from the tow truck.

 

[90Nine]

That mercantile is the same place she stopped before going to the Williams. It was said to be closed. It looks like from google maps there is a pay phone next to the ice machine. Why didn't she use the pay phone then, rather than going to the Williams home to use the phone?

I don't know....but if she was at that store before the williams then maybe she was down at the beach earlier too.

Maybe she only stopped by the merchantile to ask for directions rather than to make a call?

She said she stopped at the williams because they had a christian sign of some sort on their home.

 

[SMK]

Honestly, if I dated someone who had problems with alcohol, I wouldn't know what I should or shouldn't do. Unless he got counseling with her and received advice as a loved one of an alcoholic, how is he supposed to know? Isn't it each of our responsibility to make decisions of what is best for us for ourselves?

I suppose so. I guess I have always heard than a recovering alcoholic should not even have one drink. That the temptation is too much. So I would think to go on a wine tasting trip would be temptation (tasting wine again). But yes, she was the one who needed to control her drinking.

 

[SMK]

Those are really good points. I hadn't thought about the timelines that way. But that is so true. She was doing something else. She didn't even go to buy the wine until 9pm. Unless she had other alcohol with her?

I definitely think she went down to the beach earlier. Perhaps calling RS before a rendezvous with someone? (kind of a guilty call?)

If she is alive (where is the purse and overnight bag) then I think she is with someone she knows.

I did a search and I found the closest store and gas to be Gull Harbor Merchantile - which is 3.7 miles away from where they found the van. She could have walked up and used the phone.

Just a thought...

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=8345+Zangle+Rd+NE,+Olympia,+WA+98506&daddr=Gull+Harbor+Mercantile,+4932+Boston+Harbor+Road+Northeast,+Olympia,+WA+98506-1899&hl=en&geocode=&mra=ls&sll=47.10412,-122.882595&sspn=0.006353,0.016973&ie=UTF8&ll=47.126447,-122.88208&spn=0.053726,0.135784&t=h&z=13

Yes : BUT: The only problem is, why did the bloodhounds pick up NO scent of her away from the beach. The police said , "No scent, no sightings, away from the beach".

 

[90Nine]

One more possibility came to mind:

She left Az in the car while she went to find a phone by foot. Called someone she knows to come help. It likely would have taken hear about 30 minutes or so to walk to the merchantile store, if there was a phone there.

She could have done that, came back to the car and Az was gone.

Maybe that would explain the knock on the door at the other house at 1am. It would account for the time. But not the lack of the dogs picking up the scent.

 

[houndstooth]

Is the pic you're talking about Hound?

If those are the tire tracks of the van, then it looks like she turned the van around on higher ground (near the pier/dock/boardwalk thingy) and then backed the van down to water line.

But it's hard to say if those are the van tire tracks or maybe the tire tracks from the tow truck.

I also notice two sets of footprints in the same photo. But IDK whose they are.

Yeah. It looks like the darker tracks would be the tow trucks above the semicircle. And she backed in from higher ground not just a little way to turn around but all the way close to the water's edge! Does that seem more premeditated than simply driving forward onto the beach. It seems like an important clue somehow.

 

[houndstooth]

I don't know....but if she was at that store before the williams then maybe she was down at the beach earlier too.

The only places that would potentially have a phone would be about 7 miles away. Which probably is inaccurate.

Maybe she only stopped by the merchantile to ask for directions rather than to make a call?

She said she stopped at the williams because they had a christian sign of some sort on their home.

I understood that the visit to the Williams was at around 10pm and she would have had to make a beeline straight to this store from there to arive at 10:34 pm. Then another almost timed journey to the beach from there to arrive at just before 11pm according to LE.

 

[90Nine]

Yes : BUT: The only problem is, why did the bloodhounds pick up NO scent of her away from the beach. The police said , "No scent, no sightings, away from the beach".

The police said that the dogs had a track, but it ended. I would love to know where it ended and if it indicated that they were out of the car and away from the car.

 

[SMK]

The police said that the dogs had a track, but it ended. I would love to know where it ended and if it indicated that they were out of the car and away from the car.

Right, but it seems that they believe other than the car, and that immediate area around it on the beach, the dogs followed no scent (say, up the road, into the woods, toward a house--even the one in which the 1 am knocking was reported) - unless there was another car who picked her up, but that is a stretch, and there were no tire signs.

 

[sorrell skye]

Gotta go to work - BBL.

If anyone can find an article about whether or not the dogs ever found a scent, and where they lost it, TIA. When this case first broke, RS's daughter tweeted something about "the dogs lost the scent". I believe someone posted about it in the first thread.

See ya'll later!

 

[Jules71]

I understood that the visit to the Williams was at around 10pm and she would have had to make a beeline straight to this store from there to arive at 10:34 pm. Then another almost timed journey to the beach from there to arrive at just before 11pm according to LE.

Earlier it was reported she was at the mercantile at 9:55 and the Williams at 10:10. Later reports were different, so who knows?

 

[Calliope]

RS did not take SS on a wine tasting vacation. What we have is his blog saying they went on a vacation, and that one of many stops was at a vineyard one day, where RS sampled the wine.

There is nothing saying that SS had any wine, let alone that RS in any way encouraged or condoned it.

There are no references in the blog to SS consuming alcohol.

There is one picture in the blog from another stop on the same vacation, in which SS has a mug of beer on the table in front of her.

This is how rumors grow legs. That one mug of beer on the table has grown into a sadistic wine tasting vacation.

Again, true. A half-empty mug of beer sitting at her plate isn't proof she was the one drinking it. No proof that SS was drinking the night she and her son went missing, either.

 

[SMK]

Gotta go to work - BBL.

If anyone can find an article about whether or not the dogs ever found a scent, and where they lost it, TIA. When this case first broke, RS's daughter tweeted something about "the dogs lost the scent". I believe someone posted about it in the first thread.

See ya'll later!

Well, this article mentions that two dogs had been used around the beach and woods, and at the home where the knocking was, and had failed in all cases to pick up a scent trail.
http://projectjason.org/forums/index.php?topic=8400.15