WA WA - Shantina Smiley, 29, & Azriel Carver, 8 (fnd deceased), Olympia, Mar 2010 - #3

[yosande]

Well, the core body temperature drops during sleep, and
Cold water removes heat from the body 25 times faster than cold air. About 50% of that heat loss occurs through the head. Physical activity such as swimming, or other struggling in the water increases heat loss. Survival time can be reduced to minutes. Strong swimmers have died before swimming 100 yards in cold water. In water under 40 degrees F, victims have died before swimming 100 feet.http://www.enter.net/~skimmer/coldwater.html I think it can be safely said, along with what Mealy said about the "ferocious current", that they could have gotten into trouble very quickly, especially if the tide rose and caught them unaware, in their sleep.

It just doesn't make sense that the keys were found on the dashboard, the doors were opened with the idea that they just fell asleep.

Since the ground was unlevel, and they were on a beach and she grew up in the area, it doesn't make sense that she wouldn't have known that she was too far out on the beach. Going down that path and then further down on the beach, without getting out of the van and walking up to the house, suggests something sinister.

If she had an overnight bag, due to the cold weather, they would have had several layers of clothes on in order to stay warm, even as they walked away from the van, if they did. However, Az was found in a t-shirt, not multiple t-shirts, and his coat? Where is his coat? It would have floated yes? Wouldn't her "overnight bag" also have floated?

Ok, so where is she? 10 days it has been said for a body to surface, but not true in the Puget Sound as Az was found 3 or 4 days later, and LE has not told us how long he had been there.

Where is SS? Where is her overnight bag, and where is her purse? Where is Az's coat? Is anything else missing?

ETA; They were both wearing glasses. Have either of their glasses been found? tia

 

[yosande]

OMG. that's so true! That is the only reason someone would turn their vehicle around and face the road. And that is the reason! But is it to watch for someone or wait... LE needs to GO BACK & ask these people very carefully abt the directions she had asked for...

Or, to go back up the road from which she came, however, the keys on the dashboard don't suggest that was the plan. moo

I agee, everyone who gave her directions should verify exactly where she getting directions to, likely they already have though.

 

[sorrell skye]

Or, to go back up the road from which she came, however, the keys on the dashboard don't suggest that was the plan. moo

I agee, everyone who gave her directions should verify exactly where she getting directions to, likely they already have though.

The keys on the dashboard suggest she planned on staying the night, or at the very least didn't want to get busted for another DUI.

Well, it's late folks - I'm off to bed. It's been an interesting discussion tonight.

Hope to see you all tomorrow.

Night all!

 

[houndstooth]

It just doesn't make sense that the keys were found on the dashboard, the doors were opened with the idea that they just fell asleep.

Since the ground was unlevel, and they were on a beach and she grew up in the area, it doesn't make sense that she wouldn't have known that she was too far out on the beach. Going down that path and then further down on the beach, without getting out of the van and walking up to the house, suggests something sinister.

If she had an overnight bag, due to the cold weather, they would have had several layers of clothes on in order to stay warm, even as they walked away from the van, if they did. However, Az was found in a t-shirt, not multiple t-shirts, and his coat? Where is his coat? It would have floated yes? Wouldn't her "overnight bag" also have floated?

Ok, so where is she? 10 days it has been said for a body to surface, but not true in the Puget Sound as Az was found 3 or 4 days later, and LE has not told us how long he had been there.

Where is SS? Where is her overnight bag, and where is her purse? Where is Az's coat? Is anything else missing?

Earlier today I said Canada. But her MS says "Mexico".

That may sound flip. But, I am semi-serious.

 

[jessigirl]

Does anyone have the link for NDS(fiance's daughter) AKA "Kik" twitter page? I can't find it and I know thats one of the only sources that gave us a little insight as to where dogs lost the scent... If anyone knows will you let me know how to go about finding it? TIA!!

 

[SMK]

It just doesn't make sense that the keys were found on the dashboard, the doors were opened with the idea that they just fell asleep.

Since the ground was unlevel, and they were on a beach and she grew up in the area, it doesn't make sense that she wouldn't have known that she was too far out on the beach. Going down that path and then further down on the beach, without getting out of the van and walking up to the house, suggests something sinister.

If she had an overnight bag, due to the cold weather, they would have had several layers of clothes on in order to stay warm, even as they walked away from the van, if they did. However, Az was found in a t-shirt, not multiple t-shirts, and his coat? Where is his coat? It would have floated yes? Wouldn't her "overnight bag" also have floated?

Ok, so where is she? 10 days it has been said for a body to surface, but not true in the Puget Sound as Az was found 3 or 4 days later, and LE has not told us how long he had been there.

Where is SS? Where is her overnight bag, and where is her purse? Where is Az's coat? Is anything else missing?

Well, I am assuming that 1. They were not dressed warmly because they originally were to be sleeping at the Step-dad's home. This buying wine, and wasting time, and going to park somewhere private to sleep and to avoid police and another DUI arrest, were all last minute things, due to her having a stress attack about the visit , and wanting to back out in the 11th hour. In my opinion, that is what likely happened. 2. They went to sleep with the hatch and doors CLOSED (and no ignition or heat on due to a. not wanting to waste gas b. not wanting a DUI if cops showed up (you get one if engine is on, I have heard, even if you are not "driving") --then, when they were awakened by van shifting and rocking, they opened all in a panic, trying to figure out what was happening , what to do, how to leave. Does this make sense?

 

[houndstooth]

The keys on the dashboard suggest she planned on staying the night.

Well, it's late folks - I'm off to bed. It's been an interesting discussion tonight.

Hope to see you all tomorrow.

Night all!

Good night Sorrell. But, maybe it's all those rentacar commercials I saw growing up. I think it was a sign she was giving the "fiance" back his car, right before she left.

 

[houndstooth]

Does anyone have the link for NDS(fiance's daughter) AKA "Kik" twitter page? I can't find it and I know thats one of the only sources that gave us a little insight as to where dogs lost the scent... If anyone knows will you let me know how to go about finding it? TIA!!

It is set to private now.

 

[Cher352]

Well, I am assuming that 1. They were not dressed warmly because they originally were to be sleeping at the Step-dad's home. This buying wine, and wasting time, and going to park somewhere private to sleep and to avoid police and another DUI arrest, were all last minute things, due to her having a stress attack about the visit , and wanting to back out in the 11th hour. In my opinion, that is what likely happened. 2. They went to sleep with the hatch and doors CLOSED (and no ignition or heat on due to a. not wanting to waste gas b. not wanting a DUI if cops showed up (you get one if engine is on, I have heard, even if you are not "driving") --then, when they were awakened by van shifting and rocking, they opened all in a panic, trying to figure out what was happening , what to do, how to leave. Does this make sense?

Makes very good sense! The doors being all opened has had me puzzled.

As to the keys on the dash, will that get you out of a DUI in WA? Here in FL if you are parked and the keys are anywhere in the car where the driver can access them LE can still charge you with a DUI if you are legally intoxicated.

 

[jessigirl]

It is set to private now.

__________________

Thanks Hound for letting me know so that I wouldn't continue searching for it... Does anyone know of or have NDS twitter page cache by any chance??? TIA.

 

[jessigirl]

As to the keys on the dash, will that get you out of a DUI in WA? Here in FL if you are parked and the keys are anywhere in the car where the driver can access them LE can still charge you with a DUI if you are legally intoxicated.

Also My thoughts and was questioning same thing because here in TN the law is quite similar to what u stated was for FL. If keys are anywhere the driver can access them then can be charged DUI. The driver does not even have to be in the vehicle, as I had a friend that was sitting on the back end of his truck with tailgate down. Truck not running, keys out of ignition and was in his personal parking spot of his apartment building after having had 5-6 beers at a neighbor's apartment. And he was slapped with DUI and arrested on the spot. So I know if she were in TN the "keys on dash" would NOT have saved her from a DUI. Whatever WA's laws for DUI are, you would think SS would know them for sure?!! Any WA residents know how the DUI laws work in that state?

 

[Allyne]

Also, while we are at it, is this a popular location (like a teen make out spot) or is it one of those, you kinda live nearby to know about it little beaches?

It's a private beach, and an oyster bed, so probably not visited much.

 

[jessigirl]

The interesting thing about this is that the Grand Caravan for that year does come with GPS as a normal feature in addition to the power doors and DVD player, etc. (which RS's van has)

The regular Caravan for that year has it as an addition, as it does with the DVD and the power doors, etc.

It would be interesting to find out if it was a Grand Caravan or a Caravan.

RS family does have DVD and power doors. I'm just thinking that if they paid for the DVD player and power doors, they would likely get the GPS. Or maybe it is a Grand Caravan....Just some thoughts. This case has been so crazy that it wouldn't surprise me if she had GPS. JMO

Just thinking but EVEN IF the Caravan was the model that had GPS doesn't necessary mean it was a working GPS. It was several years old and its been my personal experience that UNLIKE my GPS that I have bought separately(didnt come preinstalled with car)that works like a dream but my luck with the 2 GPS that came preinstalled with car when I bought it, both were NOT WORKING by the end of the 1st year of me buying either vehicle... Am just saying even if we somehow find that fiance's make and model
did come with GPS we still have no way of knowing if it was working.

 

[Allyne]

The sheer number of gadgets in the Grand Caravan - both standard and optional - creates a stunning list that rivals anything GM can offer. From the de rigeur navigation systems...

So it would be fairly easy to retrace her steps, wouldn't it?

 

[Miss Optimism]

Just thinking but EVEN IF the Caravan was the model that had GPS doesn't necessary mean it was a working GPS. It was several years old and its been my personal experience that UNLIKE my GPS that I have bought separately(didnt come preinstalled with car)that works like a dream but my luck with the 2 GPS that came preinstalled with car when I bought it, both were NOT WORKING by the end of the 1st year of me buying either vehicle... Am just saying even if we somehow find that fiance's make and model
did come with GPS we still have no way of knowing if it was working.

Along these lines, some GPS require a monthly subscription. I remember looking for cars that came standard with GPS, but unlike my other GPS that I bought separately, I would have to pay a monthly fee.

 

[Allyne]

In the photo of the tire tracks, it looks as if the van was turned around near the pier/dock/boardwalk, and backed up across the beach to the shoreline.

Like people do when they're putting a boat in the water...

 

[90Nine]

So it would be fairly easy to retrace her steps, wouldn't it?

Maybe they are doing that...we don't know Because they're not really telling us a whole lot....would be good if there were able to retrace though.

 

[revampz]

Well, I am assuming that 1. They were not dressed warmly because they originally were to be sleeping at the Step-dad's home. This buying wine, and wasting time, and going to park somewhere private to sleep and to avoid police and another DUI arrest, were all last minute things, due to her having a stress attack about the visit , and wanting to back out in the 11th hour. In my opinion, that is what likely happened. 2. They went to sleep with the hatch and doors CLOSED (and no ignition or heat on due to a. not wanting to waste gas b. not wanting a DUI if cops showed up (you get one if engine is on, I have heard, even if you are not "driving") --then, when they were awakened by van shifting and rocking, they opened all in a panic, trying to figure out what was happening , what to do, how to leave. Does this make sense?

Yep I agree....this to me is the most logical thing that happened........not sure if she was having a stress attack and wanted to back out of the stay or maybe had already had a drink and wanted more but I do think you are correct with putting the keys on the dash to avoid the DUI and to go to sleep and then opening all the doors to see where there was less water.......

was it all doors that were open or just the side door and back hatch???

I thought it was just these two and see it going something like this.....one is woken by rocking or the water coming in.....so they open the side door and whoosh water floods in......they wake up the other and maybe the son goes first and they climb out the back hatch and straight into freezing very deep water for him.....he is straightaway lost and mum goes in looking for him and is taken as well......


however if one of the front doors were open this changes for me as I think it would be impossible to open the door against the water pressure which then would mean it would have been left open before the tide came in........and being so cold I cant understand them staying in the car with the door open...

so therefore think they must have left the car.......in this case I think they might have walked along the beach to look for a place to get up and got stuck with the tide coming up and taken in the water.....oh how terrifying ....


I hope this make sense........

 

[Allyne]

Thanks for that info on drowning victims. Haven't divers and helicopters been searching the water as well?

My Grandfather drowned & wasn't found until about a year later & miles South from where he disappeared.

 

[that78]

If the doors on the van open remotely, are they opened with a remote that is carried on a key chain or from inside the van. I know some of the newer models come with the key chain remote. Could it possibly be that water might have shortened out the wiring causing those doors to come open?

My other thought is in looking at the picture of the van's windshield I see where the sand is up on it but it also looks as if someone turned on the wipers after the sand got on there. Wouldn't the tide have washed it off?