WA WA - Shantina Smiley, 29, & Azriel Carver, 8 (fnd deceased), Olympia, Mar 2010 - #7

[Jules71]

JP was the man who made the 911 call, but he mentions in the call that he was alerted to the car's presence by a neighbor, who was called by another neighbor and told of its presence.

So, would this scenario be a possibility:

The first neighbor (let's call him neighbor A) saw/heard the car around 11ish, but made the assumption at the time that maybe it was neighbor B or ok'd by neighbor B, so he let it go without investigating.

But then, when he sees a car still out there in the morning, submerged, he calls neighbor B to check if it belonged to them or knew anything about it. He doesn't know anything about it. So neighbor B calls JP to see if he knows anything about it, but JP knows nothing about it, and finally calls 911.

So, could it be it was this unknown neighbor A who gave this "very good information" to police?

Possible?

Yes. I think that is very possible.

Whatever the reason is that prevented neighbor A from calling 911 himself, also prevented him from calling when he saw/heard the van around 11 pm. We've always wondered why neighbor A didn't call it in himself. The above scenario would explain that.

 

[RubyRed]

I have a question that has been bothering me. The house Shantina stoped at to use the phone. I have seen two men, has anyone seen a wife?

At 10 p.m. Smiley knocked on the door of a private residence where an elderly couple invited her and her son in and allowed Smiley to use the phone.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/TheLaw/sh...holic-replase-fiance/story?id=10122149&page=3


I have seen the reference to a couple, there might be something more specific elsewhere.

 

[BeanE]

I feel more and more ancient every time I see elderly couple.

 

[lilcatt]

The people in the house where she stopped was not elderly, the man is about 45 and his son look to be 18 or so. The news reporter made and error. That is why I ask if anyone had seen the wife of the 45 year old man. We only have their word that Shantina ever left their house.

 

[Calliope]

The people in the house where she stopped was not elderly, the man is about 45 and his son look to be 18 or so. The news reporter made and error. That is why I ask if anyone had seen the wife of the 45 year old man. We only have their word that Shantina ever left their house.

Well, the van left the house, that much is known. I seriously doubt they would have kept Shantina and taken Azriel and the van to the beach.

 

[RubyRed]

The people in the house where she stopped was not elderly, the man is about 45 and his son look to be 18 or so. The news reporter made and error. That is why I ask if anyone had seen the wife of the 45 year old man. We only have their word that Shantina ever left their house.

LE seems satisfied, they don't suspect foul play. The people at the house are just innocent people that are more than likely traumatized as well.

 

[BeanE]

Well, the van left the house.

I thought the video showed Shantina and AZ in the van that left the house going past the Mercantile(?) I can't quite remember.

 

[Calliope]

LE said there was no signs of a crime committed in the van. They also called their disappearance, "very suspicious".

 

[Calliope]

I thought the video showed Shantina and AZ in the van that left the house going past the Mercantile

Supposedly showed her passing by again after calling her grandfather from the Williams', yes.

ETA: that was what was reported; I haven't seen that particular video.

 

[LCoastMom]

I feel more and more ancient every time I see elderly couple.

That "elderly couple" who have yet to hit the big 5-0 especially!!

 

[AmandaReckonwith]

If the Williams kept Shantina prisoner, there is no way they'd have called to say she'd been there.

As far as I can find the pass-by of the GHM on the way north was not shown.

 

[BeanE]

LE said there was no signs of a crime committed in the van. They also called their disappearance, "very suspicious".

Both of those were in the very early days of the case. Since then LE has stated consistently that there's no evidence of a crime and no signs of foul play, without any qualification. They haven't called it 'very suspicious' since somewhere around March 16. Happy to look it up again.

 

[BeanE]

Supposedly showed her passing by again after calling her grandfather from the Williams', yes.

ETA: that was what was reported; I haven't seen that particular video.

Reported by LE that the video showed them, not just the van, correct? Happy to look it up if no one remembers off-hand.

 

[Calliope]

Reported by LE that the video showed them, not just the van, correct? Happy to look it up if no one remembers off-hand.

I don't believe I said it didn't show Shantina driving back by the store? I said it was reported it showed her passing by again. But I haven't seen the video itself, just reports of what was seen.

 

[Calliope]

Both of those were in the very early days of the case. Since then LE has stated consistently that there's no evidence of a crime and no signs of foul play, without any qualification. They haven't called it 'very suspicious' since somewhere around March 16. Happy to look it up again.

IIRC, they have said they've found no evidence of foul play. And they did state no evidence of a crime committed in the van. I don't think that was simply an off-the-cuff remark.

 

[BeanE]

I don't believe I said it didn't show Shantina driving back by the store?

When you said it showed the van, with 'the van' in italics, it seemed to me to imply that they weren't seen in the van, ergo, I'm clarifying for anyone who may get that impression.

ETA: I see now you've gone back and edited both your posts. I've been responding to your original, unedited posts, as quoted.

 

[BeanE]

IIRC, they have said they've found no evidence of foul play. And they did state no evidence of a crime committed in the van. I don't think that was simply an off-the-cuff remark.

Again, the qualification of 'in the van', was in the very early days of the case, if I'm not mistaken prior to March 16 or 18th. LE stopped qualifying it, and changed it to simply 'no indication of a crime' period. Since they made that change and stopped qualifying it, it has been 'no indication of a crime' and 'no evidence of foul play'.

One of the things I do as a mod is to keep check on the most recent statements by LE. I've posted them in this case a number of times, and an Advance Search on my name with keyword crime will bring them up. I'm happy to look them up once again for anyone who can't find them.

It's important to post accurate and current information to be sure that people just starting to follow the case get the most reliable and credible information possible from WS. It's what they come to Websleuths for.

 

[Calliope]

When you said it showed the van, with 'the van' in italics, it seemed to me to imply that they weren't seen in the van, ergo, I'm clarifying for anyone who may get that impression.

ETA: I see now you've gone back and edited both your posts. I've been responding to your original, unedited posts, as quoted.

I wanted to clarify; my point was the van didn't get to the beach by itself and it's very unlikely that someone would have kept Shantina and taken the van and Azriel down there.

 

[Calliope]

Again, the qualification of 'in the van', was in the very early days of the case, if I'm not mistaken prior to March 16 or 18th. LE stopped qualifying it, and changed it to simply 'no indication of a crime' period. Since they made that change and stopped qualifying it, it has been 'no indication of a crime' and 'no evidence of foul play'.

One of the things I do as a mod is to keep check on the most recent statements by LE. I've posted them in this case a number of times, and an Advance Search on my name with keyword crime will bring them up. I'm happy to look them up once again for anyone who can't find them.

It's important to post accurate and current information to be sure that people just starting to follow the case get the most reliable and credible information possible from WS. It's what they come to Websleuths for.

"There is no evidence of foul play in this case," Chamberlain said. "Azriel's death still appears to have been accidental and there is no indication Shantina harmed her son or had any intent to harm her son."

No evidence of foul play does not mean 'no foul play'; it simply means what it says--- no evidence has been found. That is a quote from an article on 4/5, btw.

So far, everything I've found says 'no evidence' or 'no signs' of foul play. The comment about the van was specific. I haven't read (or heard) any direct quotes from LE that there was no crime committed elsewhere. Seems to me that until they find Shantina, they can't absolutely rule out anything.

 

[Jules71]

Who all was home at the Williams house when Kat and Az came in to use the phone? I recall seeing Dennis Williams and his son (?) in videos. I don't recall seeing an interview or reading anything from a "Mrs" Williams. The home is listed in DW's MIL's name (maybe that is where they are getting "elderly" from).

It would be interesting to see the GHM surveillance of Kat driving north after her stop at the Williams to see if there were any cars immediately in front or behind her - to see if maybe she was following someone or they were following her.

When Mealy said "We believe that she was at the Gull Harbor Mercantile at about 10:35 that evening" - does that mean she stopped there? To me, saying "she was at" means she stopped there. If so, WHY? She had stopped there already right? Then she went directly to the Williams - and then directly back there again? IMO, that seems like she may have been trying to meet someone. I wonder if she made any other calls from DW's home.

If she did meet someone and follow them to the beach - it could be possible she told Az she would be right back in order to go for a ride with this person. Maybe when she did not return, Az exited the van with a backpack or some of his belongings and started walking down the beach to see if he could find her. It could have been Az who knocked on the Grimmer's house -- or it could have been Shantina who after returning to the van could not find Az. Someone stated if you fell from those steep steps up from the beach you could die or get badly hurt. Could he have been caught by the tide, started up the steps with his stuff and then slipped and fell and drowned? Around 1 am, how far up would the tide be? Would it be all the way to the stairs? I know someone said before they didn't think the water went all the way to the stairs, but I know we have beach property in OR and when the tide comes in, it completely covers the first 1-3 steps.

Just thinking and rambling. This is just so frustrating!