WA WA - Shantina Smiley, 29, & Azriel Carver, 8 (fnd deceased), Olympia, Mar 2010 - #7

[LCoastMom]

If the Williams kept Shantina prisoner, there is no way they'd have called to say she'd been there.

As far as I can find the pass-by of the GHM on the way north was not shown.

Not to implicate the DW's in any way, shape or form - but since they allowed her to use their phone - if the call was direct dialed or reverse charges, LE would have the information of where the call originated from, by checking the incoming calls to her grandparents - right? (my phone bill shows the numbers I call and the number from where out of area calls originate from.)

They wouldn't have to have called and said she was there - LE would have come - a knocking I would hope.... :waitasec:

Mr W did appear traumatized by the events and my heart goes out to all the people Az and SS came across that night - I would be beating myself up with "If only" I had her follow my car to the HWY or "if only" I had noticed something seemed wrong (more wrong).

It seemed from Mr W's retelling the events; SS was only nervous because she was lost - if anything Az seemed hungry - to SS was upset and looked like she had been crying, the more time passed after the first reports of her going missing, the more Mr W seemed upset by the events.

One thing that worries me was the time lapse of LE saying they were reviewing phone logs (logs = my word not theirs) as we found out on the CMA case - a cell phone hits off of towers 24/7 - but the phone company "drops" information after 24 hours for a cell phone carried from one tower to the next - but not used - only the used minutes are recorded permanently. Understandably the phone company can't keep all those billions of "hits" but one can hope that LE starts the search sooner rather than later when looking for the missing and those they have contact with. (I hope they were checking from day 1 - and possibly failed to say anything until day 3) :detective:

 

[slowpoke]

What is to be expected now, at this date, in cases like this?

With no new leads, does LE just stop actively searching for answers until/unless something new comes to their attention?

 

[SMK]

What is to be expected now, at this date, in cases like this?

With no new leads, does LE just stop actively searching for answers until/unless something new comes to their attention?

This is what I have wondered, and I fear the answer is "yes". :cry:

 

[Calliope]

Was the clip of her looking in the window and the clip of her at the telephone with the Out of Order sign - the same time clip?

I'm 99% sure you can't see the inside of the van in the 10:30 ish clip if it is the one of her just driving by. (hazy figure at best) If she is in the actual parking lot you may be able to see into the front - like where she clipped the front tire on the curb at the pump - The windows are tinted but there is a sun/moon roof that allows overhead light. I thought I saw the 1030ish clip early on -once; but several of the vids seem to show up on the news - like the one Fox used of the Mercantile to show her driving out of HP - so I could be remembering incorrectly.

bbm

That was never clear to me; when I read the accounts of her looking into a closed store (the mercantile closes at 9pm on Saturdays), I pictured her actually getting out of the van and going up to the door to peer inside. I thought maybe she'd seen a light on or people inside. Then it was posted *somewhere* that she'd just driven into their lot and looked in while driving through. I thought the clip of her running over the curb was from the place she bought the wine?

 

[Calliope]

I don't know. In some cases, as time has gone on, I've found out pieces of info much later that LE held close to the vest that for the life of me I couldn't find to have any potential bearing on the case. I've found LE overall to have a "hold back everything" attitude. Sort of "best say nothing about anything rather than risk slipping about something important".

I do think that LE remains, of necessity, open to the possibility of crime, however remote, in all cases, until they can close it. It could potentially make them look quite foolish to do otherwise, and I wouldn't think they're fond of that potential prospect.

In this specific case, I believe one of Mealy's most recent statements was specifically something along the lines of "whereas we are open to other possibilities, we believe they were swept out by the tide and drowned". I take that at face value, particularly since Az's death was ruled accidental.

I agree. I suspect there are seemingly innocuous facts being withheld from the public and the family, things that only a "perp" would know, for example. I doubt they'll divulge all unless they determine without a doubt that a crime could not have taken place.

 

[Calliope]

Good conversation. Thank you again, Calliope and SMK. I understand better where you're coming from.

Thank you too

 

[LCoastMom]

Does anyone remember when the items that didn't wash up on the shore were reportedly found by the beach walker? I believe LE first revealed their existence on Wednesday - so 4 days out? But when did she find them?:waitasec:

Did LE reveal they were all found in one area - at the foot of the stairs or were they found scattered - but some in that one place?

Thanks

 

[LCoastMom]

bbm

That was never clear to me; when I read the accounts of her looking into a closed store (the mercantile closes at 9pm on Saturdays), I pictured her actually getting out of the van and going up to the door to peer inside. I thought maybe she'd seen a light on or people inside. Then it was posted *somewhere* that she'd just driven into their lot and looked in while driving through. I thought the clip of her running over the curb was from the place she bought the wine?

I'm sure I saw her with her face up close to the glass "R" hand (as long as the negative wasn't reversed) up over her eye peering in. That would be an awkward pose from inside the van. (99.99% sure she was on foot looking in and she smiled - it appeared to be dark in the store)

There was another of her possibly from the car (???) pulled up to the pay phone. And I thought one of the van, on the road driving past (so the shot was of the passenger side) and showed little. I'm not even sure if they were released as a photo (single clip) or as a video.

Pretty sure I'd seen them early on - but again, I know FOX showed one saying it was something it was not - so I wonder if I heard one thing and my brain put the missing pieces into the picture that wasn't really seen (at the pay phone).

My trouble with the curb hit: I was trying to figure what was in common with the stops, Fox claimed to show her driving out of HP, the pumps looked to be the same as the Mercantile - they are Shell Pumps at the Merc, they appear to be Shell where she hits the curb.

I can't find anything about HP selling Shell as matter of fact the HP is linked to the Texaco web site.

OK I just called them (again) they sell Chevron Gasoline....

Looked up Chevron = Chevron -Texaco, Chevron stations are blue and white, Texaco is red with white or black - their eco brand stations are red/black....

does that mean she hit the curb at the Merc? I'm looking...

 

[Calliope]

Does anyone remember when the items that didn't wash up on the shore were reportedly found by the beach walker? I believe LE first revealed their existence on Wednesday - so 4 days out? But when did she find them?:waitasec:

Did LE reveal they were all found in one area - at the foot of the stairs or were they found scattered - but some in that one place?

Thanks

She found them on Sunday, the same day the van was found. From what Chamberlain said, they were found all in one place and at or near the foot of the stairs going up to the area where the couple lived who heard 'banging' on the side of their home.

 

[AmandaReckonwith]

Tonight I went back to thread 1. Found some things interesting looking back 6 weeks later.
Also uploaded a few videos and captures.

To clarify, the curb was hit at Handy Pantry. After coming out of there, she went to the passenger front door and did something. As she drove off she clipped the curb with the right front wheel.
(I wondered if that is how the van got the scrape on the passengers side)

The first vid to mention the things washed up was the morning of the 18th, so the cops knew all about that by the 17th or earlier.

There is only the video at Gull Harbor Mercantile where she pulls in to use the phone (presumeably) and then leaves. There is reported to be another vid showing her passing it on the way to Zangle Rd. But that is not on a news site as far as I can find.

If you want to check, the way the album is organized is: first pics last. The pics of the van driving away from GHM are on p3 and 4 right now.

To just look at vids (which are not top quality but will do in a pinch down the road when the news sites delete them) click "video" at top right of page 1. The options there being "images" and "videos".

Also please fell free to comment. I don't delete.
http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Shantina%20Smiley%20-%20Azriel%20Carver/

 

[AmandaReckonwith]

LCoastMom, here is Shantina hitting the curb at Handy Pantry.

http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/... Azriel Carver/?action=view&current=005-2.flv

As far as I can tell, she didn't even stop at the Gull Harbor Mercantile.

 

[Calliope]

LCoastMom, here is Shantina hitting the curb at Handy Pantry.

http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Shantina%20Smiley%20-%20Azriel%20Carver/?action=view&current=005-2.flv

As far as I can tell, she didn't even stop at the Gull Harbor Mercantile.

That looked as if she clipped the curb with the left front tire.

 

[BeanE]

Does anyone remember when the items that didn't wash up on the shore were reportedly found by the beach walker?

Unless you have a link to a credible source from a scientist with the appropriate credentials stating that the items did not wash up on the shore, referring to them as such is misleading and misinformation. Please don't do so.

What I've seen is a blog post by a blogger in which the blogger claims that a member of LE said he does not believe the items were washed out to sea. A whisper-down-the-lane claim from a blogger on a blog that a member of LE - not a scientist with the appropriate credentials - holds a certain belief.

The blog post does contain two direct quotes from the member of LE - again, not a scientist with the appropriate credentials upon whose opinion we can rely. Here are the quotes:

"It was interesting that the items belonging to Shantina and Azriel found on the beach were just below the housing development where this house is located. The items were about 50-60 yards from the house, just down a steep stairway," Chamberlain said.

"It is unlikely they would all float to that spot," Chamberlain said.


The information in the blog post, including Chamberlain's posts, is simply not enough that the items can be referred to as "items that didn't wash up on the shore".

We must be sure that information we post does not mislead or misinform members and guests of Websleuths.

Thank you -
BeanE

 

[BeanE]

I'm sure I saw her with her face up close to the glass "R" hand (as long as the negative wasn't reversed) up over her eye peering in. That would be an awkward pose from inside the van. (99.99% sure she was on foot looking in and she smiled - it appeared to be dark in the store)

I don't believe any pictures or videos exist of Shantina outside of her van doing anything at the Gull Harbor Mercantile.

All reports have been that Shantina did not get out of the van at the GHM.

If you are sure you have seen images of Shantina outside the van at the GHM, please provide links to the images showing that.

BeanE

 

[Momma3Boys]

I think what did it for me, was finding that drowning can never be proven, but only surmised. And to drown fully clothed, when one is not swimming, is not a clear cut "accident", as no one witnessed it. Not trying to be argumentative, really just baffled. Where is the clear cut accident?

*snipping by me*

Exactly my thoughts. He could have been thrown into the water (perhaps from a boat -- just an example) and although no signs of a struggle were present, it clearly wouldn't have been an "accidental drowning".

 

[SMK]

Unless you have a link to a credible source from a scientist with the appropriate credentials stating that the items did not wash up on the shore, referring to them as such is misleading and misinformation. Please don't do so.

What I've seen is a blog post by a blogger in which the blogger claims that a member of LE said he does not believe the items were washed out to sea. A whisper-down-the-lane claim from a blogger on a blog that a member of LE - not a scientist with the appropriate credentials - holds a certain belief.

The blog post does contain two direct quotes from the member of LE - again, not a scientist with the appropriate credentials upon whose opinion we can rely. Here are the quotes:

"It was interesting that the items belonging to Shantina and Azriel found on the beach were just below the housing development where this house is located. The items were about 50-60 yards from the house, just down a steep stairway," Chamberlain said.

"It is unlikely they would all float to that spot," Chamberlain said.


The information in the blog post, including Chamberlain's posts, is simply not enough that the items can be referred to as "items that didn't wash up on the shore".

We must be sure that information we post does not mislead or misinform members and guests of Websleuths.

Thank you -
BeanE

OK, I saw it a bit differently, but as Moderator you have far more experience with this kind of thing. I certainly want to abide by your rules, and not make up my own...Please accept my sincere apology. SMK

 

[AmandaReckonwith]

That looked as if she clipped the curb with the left front tire.

Watch it again. At :55, there is something in the left of the sceen, but that is not what she hits.
Her right front tire hits the curb at the pump.
At that curb, there is a pole to protect from cars hitting the actual pump... so I thought *maybe* she scraped it with the right side of the van. The camera angle doesn't show it.
But in another pic of the van there is a scrape along the right side.

Doesn't matter really. I've seen others do it, I have done it completely sober.

 

[AmandaReckonwith]

Chamberlain said on camera that they did not know if Shantina bought wine. But clearly she did.

 

[BeanE]

Reminder -

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"Posting a thread or reply to comment on, question, or criticize moderator or administrator action is not appropriate in a public forum. Please utilize the board’s Private Message function, or email, staff if you wish to discuss these issues."

Rules Etiquette & Information - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Please understand and respect that we use the tools to moderate the forum, and this is not open for discussion/debate.

Please feel free to PM or email myself or any mod or admin with questions or concerns at any time.

Thank you -
BeanE

 

[SMK]

Reminder -

The moderators work to ensure that members are abiding by the TOS.

"Posting a thread or reply to comment on, question, or criticize moderator or administrator action is not appropriate in a public forum. Please utilize the board’s Private Message function, or email, staff if you wish to discuss these issues."

Rules Etiquette & Information - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Please understand and respect that we use the tools to moderate the forum, and this is not open for discussion/debate.

Please feel free to PM or email myself or any mod or admin with questions or concerns at any time.

Thank you -
BeanE

I agree. Sorry I sometimes post without thinking it all through. Thanks for reminding me, and again, I apologize for sometimes running off with an idea, without thinking of the good/ill effect on forum.