GUILTY WA - Six Anderson family members slain in Carnation home, 24 Dec 2007

  • #201
I'm not able to apportion blame for who was the leader/follower in this cold-blooded murder of a family. From everything I've read, both were full and willing particpants. It truly seems like these two were equally yoked in the heart and art of murder.
 
  • #202
I don't think drugs were involved, although i do think mental illness was present in both Michelle and Joe, it in no way clouded their actions on the night of the murders. I don't think they were on drugs that night either. Their heads had to be clear enough to hide the parents bodies, and then lay in wait for Michelle's brother and family to arrive. There heads were clear and they knew exactly what they were doing, they knew it was wrong, and they didn't care. It is obvious as someone else stated, that Michelle's family loved her. For some reason in her twisted mind she either made herself doubt this, most likely as they were asking her to pay rent. Although the blacked out windows sounds like drug related behavior, i believe this twisted couple made themselves paranoid plotting these murders for awhile and that's why they blacked out the windows. If they had purchased the guns legally the past summer or awhile ago, they were fostering this fantasy of murder for awhile in their heads, probably to the point of obsession. This in itself, would make them paranoid that someone would find out their plans. There's no way an insanity plea would work for them as it was all premeditated and they obviously knew well enough to hide the parents bodies so they wouldn't look suspicious when the others arrived.
As for jailhouse vengeance, those that kill children are on the lowest of the totem pole along with the perverts and rapists. I'd guess Joe would have a harder time than Michelle, although she will get her share, especially when they first arrive at their respective prisons to serve their sentences.
 
  • #203
I'm not able to apportion blame for who was the leader/follower in this cold-blooded murder of a family. From everything I've read, both were full and willing particpants. It truly seems like these two were equally yoked in the heart and art of murder.

I understand not apportioning blame.

But, as a mother, to think that that poor woman died knowing it was at the hands of her "baby" (and Michele WAS her little girl and baby...your children ALWAYS are) is painful.

It would be scary to die at the hands of a strange looking person who had latched onto your family...as it seems Joe did.

But, to know your own child hated you to the point of wanting you dead...?

I agree both Joe and Michele are guilty and evil. But, I think with Michele it was more personal...those people raised her, they were her blood. And for that reason, it bothers me more.

JMO
 
  • #204
I don't think drugs were involved, although i do think mental illness was present in both Michelle and Joe, it in no way clouded their actions on the night of the murders. I don't think they were on drugs that night either. Their heads had to be clear enough to hide the parents bodies, and then lay in wait for Michelle's brother and family to arrive. There heads were clear and they knew exactly what they were doing, they knew it was wrong, and they didn't care. It is obvious as someone else stated, that Michelle's family loved her. For some reason in her twisted mind she either made herself doubt this, most likely as they were asking her to pay rent. Although the blacked out windows sounds like drug related behavior, i believe this twisted couple made themselves paranoid plotting these murders for awhile and that's why they blacked out the windows. If they had purchased the guns legally the past summer or awhile ago, they were fostering this fantasy of murder for awhile in their heads, probably to the point of obsession. This in itself, would make them paranoid that someone would find out their plans. There's no way an insanity plea would work for them as it was all premeditated and they obviously knew well enough to hide the parents bodies so they wouldn't look suspicious when the others arrived.
As for jailhouse vengeance, those that kill children are on the lowest of the totem pole along with the perverts and rapists. I'd guess Joe would have a harder time than Michelle, although she will get her share, especially when they first arrive at their respective prisons to serve their sentences.

I totally disagree. Meth users tend to be night creatures and they have the presence of mind to hide bodies etc. They also just get freaked out and turn violent. They have paranoid behavior. I know, we have one in the family. This just smacks of drug abuse - a drug lifestyle. We'll see, but drug addiction can cause symptoms that mimic true mental illness.
 
  • #205
I understand not apportioning blame.

But, as a mother, to think that that poor woman died knowing it was at the hands of her "baby" (and Michele WAS her little girl and baby...your children ALWAYS are) is painful.

It would be scary to die at the hands of a strange looking person who had latched onto your family...as it seems Joe did.

But, to know your own child hated you to the point of wanting you dead...?

I agree both Joe and Michele are guilty and evil. But, I think with Michele it was more personal...those people raised her, they were her blood. And for that reason, it bothers me more.

JMO

I hear you loud and clear, Jolynna, and those are excellent points.

But I wonder - just thinking out loud here - is it more evil for the killer who was more passionately involved (ie - these were her family members and she was very angry at them) or is it more evil for the killer who was not passionately involved but didn't have the first problem shooting 6 innocent people including children on Christmas Eve?

As an outsider, I tend to "understand" crimes of passion more than I "understand" random, calculated killings. Of course, in this instance, there was passion and calculation. As much as Michele hated and felt hated (disrespected) by her family, she didn't just blow a gasket and start shooting - she planned this!!!

Anyway - like I said before - I don't have any answers - am just thinking about these two very damaged individuals and what led them down this path.
 
  • #206
I totally disagree. Meth users tend to be night creatures and they have the presence of mind to hide bodies etc. They also just get freaked out and turn violent. They have paranoid behavior. I know, we have one in the family. This just smacks of drug abuse - a drug lifestyle. We'll see, but drug addiction can cause symptoms that mimic true mental illness.

Ziggy - I am going to agree with you that there was a drug lifestyle (very probably meth) going on with these two. Maybe we'll be proven wrong, but some of the things I have read and some of the circumstances surrounding this crime lead me to believe substance abuse was at play.

ETA: I hope no one here will read that opinion as me thinking this excuses their behavior in anyway. I don't think that for a second.
 
  • #207
I understand not apportioning blame.

But, as a mother, to think that that poor woman died knowing it was at the hands of her "baby" (and Michele WAS her little girl and baby...your children ALWAYS are) is painful.

It would be scary to die at the hands of a strange looking person who had latched onto your family...as it seems Joe did.

But, to know your own child hated you to the point of wanting you dead...?

I agree both Joe and Michele are guilty and evil. But, I think with Michele it was more personal...those people raised her, they were her blood. And for that reason, it bothers me more.

JMO

Let's not forget that Joe fired most of the shots. And from what we know at this point, he fired all of the fatal shots. Joe isn't a stranger to this family at all. Joe told a reporter that "it was his family too" Him and Michelle had been together 5 or 6 years. He knew the children their entire lives. There is no way for us to know at the moment who is more "evil". We don't know what Michelle was like before she met Joe, and visa versa. If we need to assign more blame to one or the other, what info do we have at this time to do that? It could be that Michelle was the "leader" or whatever you want to call it. It could also be that Michelle was already mentally ill and Joe made it worse. To me it's six of one and half dozen of the other at this point. The only reason I think Joe's family was spared, was because they were a couple of thousand miles away from Washington. And Joe hadn't spoken to any of them in years.
 
  • #208
I don't really want to dish out percentages of blame, I was just thinking about the folks who were their neighbors when they lived in the trailer park. They said when you spoke to him or asked him a question, he looked to Michelle to answer it. Seems at least in public, he was the follower and she was the controller. Makes me think she may have had plans a good portion of her life and then lucked into another sick twisted mind she could manipulate into helping. Yes, he absolutely is a cold blooded killer, but I think she used him to do HER dirty deed. And unlike Manson who with Tate/Labianca didn't get "his hands dirty", she was ready and willing to kill. He's evil and guilty absolutely, and I'm not trying to lessen his actions or guilt. I just had a feeling from what I've read in linked articles that if one IS more evil then the other, it may be her.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/345336_michele29.html
 
  • #209
Why have we not seen a picture of Michelle? Joe has been seen in the police car, and in court. :confused: I also find it a bit odd that there isn't more an internet history on these two. No Myspace???
 
  • #210
Why have we not seen a picture of Michelle? Joe has been seen in the police car, and in court. :confused: I also find it a bit odd that there isn't more an internet history on these two. No Myspace???

Reannan, I have seen a picture of Michele but I couldn't lead you to a link. Perhaps someone else will be able too.
 
  • #211
I've got a picture of Michele on my site: badgirlscrimeblog.wordpress.com.

I do think LE is right in saying we will never know the motive. I sure can't come up with one. Where was that couple going and what were they going to do in Canada that killing the family benefitted them????

Obviously, when they decided to head back and "pretend" to discover the bodies, they had no plan about what to say. They were busted almost as soon as they talked.

This act was PLANNED ahead...but to what purpose??? Kill Michele's family amd THEN WHAT????? How did that make this couple better off?

How did they THINK they would be made better off????

MOO
 
  • #212
I totally disagree. Meth users tend to be night creatures and they have the presence of mind to hide bodies etc. They also just get freaked out and turn violent.
Wasn't Couey on some drug (meth or crack ??) when he kidnapped, raped, hid Jessica in the trailer and then buried her alive? My memory's bad, but I think he was on something and he was able to pull all of that off, so it's possible Michelle and Joe were into some kind of drug use. Will they do drug tests on them to see?
 
  • #213
I've got a picture of Michele on my site: badgirlscrimeblog.wordpress.com.

I do think LE is right in saying we will never know the motive. I sure can't come up with one. Where was that couple going and what were they going to do in Canada that killing the family benefitted them????

Obviously, when they decided to head back and "pretend" to discover the bodies, they had no plan about what to say. They were busted almost as soon as they talked.

This act was PLANNED ahead...but to what purpose??? Kill Michele's family amd THEN WHAT????? How did that make this couple better off?

How did they THINK they would be made better off????

MOO

Slightly off-topic, but I clicked on the badgirls link in your siggy thinking it might be quicker than copy/paste and it took me to a godaddy parking place....lol Anyway, I copied/pasted and I'm at your other site now. Neat site! Thanks!

I've seen the picture on your site before. I think they said it's from her yearbook from about 10 yrs ago. Why aren't there mugshots available of these losers yet?! :banghead:
 
  • #214
I totally disagree. Meth users tend to be night creatures and they have the presence of mind to hide bodies etc. They also just get freaked out and turn violent. They have paranoid behavior. I know, we have one in the family. This just smacks of drug abuse - a drug lifestyle. We'll see, but drug addiction can cause symptoms that mimic true mental illness.

Right on Ziggy.
Meth users are acutely aware and alert as well as neurotic and paranoid. Meth users can most definately plan and execute a murder.

Southcitymom: Interesting choice of words! "these two were equally yoked in the heart and art of murder." If you are not a writer, you should be!
 
  • #215
Right on Ziggy.
Meth users are acutely aware and alert as well as neurotic and paranoid. Meth users can most definately plan and execute a murder.

Southcitymom: Interesting choice of words! "these two were equally yoked in the heart and art of murder." If you are not a writer, you should be!

Thank you, Rich. I love to write and used to write a lot more. Now, I'm not a writer, but I play one on the internet! ;)
 
  • #216
Wasn't Couey on some drug (meth or crack ??) when he kidnapped, raped, hid Jessica in the trailer and then buried her alive? My memory's bad, but I think he was on something and he was able to pull all of that off, so it's possible Michelle and Joe were into some kind of drug use. Will they do drug tests on them to see?

Couey was a meth addict.
 
  • #217
I've got a picture of Michele on my site: badgirlscrimeblog.wordpress.com.

Thanks Jolynna. Great website by the way! I had actually seen that picture but it must be ten years old by now. Why haven't we seen a current picture? Someone (Taximom perhpas?) said they had seen some raw video of her and Joe walking up to the crime scene just before they were arrested. If I recall, she was supposed to be blonde and much heavier now. Most meth addicts become very skinny, but I wouldn't rule out meth addiciton based solely on physical body shape. Regarding meth, and the ability to commit a crime while on it. Meth has allegedly been experiemented with by the military for the purpose of assisting pilots and soldiers during long periods of no sleep. Here is a link to a fairly recent article (1996) where it's use is being discussed for keeping pilots awake:

http://tinyurl.com/yu22j7

Wikipedia, which isn't always totally accurate, but does have reliable information details the German military's use of meth during WWII. In fact, I just learned that Hitler is rumored to have been a daily user of meth. With that glowing testimony, I will never understand why someone would want to try this ridiculous nasty drug in the first place! :waitasec: From my limited research and experience with meth (family member and I also work at a hospital), I think meth users can commit very clear, and seemingly cognitive acts while under the influence. They just can't see the big picture of why their actions will fail in the long run. But then....most of the evil idiots we discuss are stupid enough to think they can get away with it. :cool:
 
  • #218
Meth is used by doctors to treat narcolepsy sometimes. It also has similiar components to what kids are given for ADD/ADHD in ritalin and adderal.
I am not familiar with the effects of meth abuse, aside from that it makes people crazy, skinny, bad teeth, and scars from scratching at themselves.
Although these two are not skinny, it may be because they sat home all day and didn't work at all and their metabolisms didn't absord as quick?
If the military was using it to keep pilots awake, and they didn't crash, then it is possible these 2 may have been on it. That would explain the no rhyme or reason behind the killings aside from Michelle's resentment of her family thinking they owe her more than was..
Thank you all for the information regarding meth, maybe it did factor in this case. I wonder if Michelle and Joe were given drug tests when arrested?
 
  • #219
I remember someone saying they saw the video of Michele walking but I haven't found it yet. If someone knows which site that is on, please point the way!
 
  • #220

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