WARNING:GRAPHIC PHOTOS Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #9

[SMK]

I thought time of death was fixed at 9:30-11:00 pm??? Hendry of course believes it happened very early, and very quickly - due to Meredith's aborted call and to her having her coat on. Simple case of poor girl walks in on burglary in progress...... The crimeshots piece speculates that AK and RS MAY have gone in and seen what Rudy had done, which means they somehow felt responsible. Might they have suggested that he rob Meredith's room, never suspecting how it would all turn out? this has occurred to me more than once, and obvioulsy to that writer as well. they stupidly clean up or stage because they do not want Rudy caught, fearing it may somehow point back to them? which obviously proved disastrous. It has been speculated that the scream heard was NOT Meredith, but Amanda, realizing what had happened to MK.

 

[otto]

well, police swallowed all that Filomina said, even though much of it was doubtful. Washing machines get warm, etc..... She and the others were quick to put Amanda down, and why were they in a position to be character witnesses against her? did they dislike her? I doubt the others were as quickly set upon by Mignini as AK and RS were.....RS was a case of guilt by association.

Dempsey's book makes it clear that tunnel vision was not a factor in the arrest of Knox and Sollecito. She describes the long list of people that were brought in for questioning in the days following the murder. Many other witnesses were kept for long hours, or brought in for questioning on more than one occassion. Have you forgotten that Raffaele told police that he told them "a load of rubbish" because Amanda told him what to say? That isn't guilt by association, that's problematic because he was lying to police during a murder investigation.

Filomina was a person aware of the facts because she was present when the murder was discovered and her bedroom window was broken ... she was not a character witness. Did Laura testify in court and if so, what was the nature of her testimony?

 

[otto]

The words "fair and balanced" remind me of the mantra of Fox News, which is in fact biased and unworthy to be called journalism. Whenever anyone says something is "fair and balanced" these days, I become suspicious, as Fox News may have revealed that those who say they are, ain't.....:waitasec:

It's unfortunate that an American TV station uses those words and has diluted the meaning. Barbie's book is fair and balanced.

 

[SMK]

It's unfortunate that an American TV station uses those words and has diluted the meaning. Barbie's book is fair and balanced.

Guess i will have to read it....I posted above your 2 while you were posting this, and i still believe that that may be a huge part of the whole story. Did R mean by "load of rubbish" the fact that the 2 were home all night?:waitasec:

 

[SMK]

It's unfortunate that an American TV station uses those words and has diluted the meaning. Barbie's book is fair and balanced.

How about "impartial and objective"? Fox news knew their audience perhaps were not quite sure of the meaning of those 2 words...:floorlaugh:

 

[OldSteve]

:anguish:Otto - I can see all of your points, and there is some merit in them. But there is no question that many people are highly suspicious of what occurred with Raffaele and Amanda; they are suspicious of Nadeau, they have some very legitimate suspicions about the prosecution, about the evidence. I for one would at this point really love to feel secure that AK & RS really were involved in the murder, as it has actually caused extra stress in my life to think they are innocent - stress that I do not need and cannot afford. In other words, I am someone who desperately wants and needs to be in the pro-conviction or pro-guilt camp, and simply am not finding the confidence I should be able to in the prosecution's case.

Meanwhile, I'm still waiting for some real evidence to place AK in MK, room....
till then, and since I just do not know what happened that night in MK's room, I have to say I have reasonable doubt that AK was involved... and she must go free...

 

[otto]

First off, I have seen Daily Beast interviews of Nadaeu, and read some of her articles, and also seen have her discussed extensively with commentary on Perugia Murder File. I do not KNOW she is biased, but I suspect it strongly, based on the foregoing. Second, this IS about Amanda. We already know that Kercher was tragically murdered, that is established fact. The question is, have Amanda and Raffaele been wrongfully arrested and convicted by the prosecution. How can this NOT be about Amanda?:banghead::waitasec:

You seem to have bought into the Knox PR team media frenzy, whose main objective was to make this all about Amanda. Amanda is an unremarkable woman from Seattle that went to Europe, and appears to have decided that she could do whatever she wanted. We know that in Berlin, where her uncle found her a job and an apartment for 2 weeks, she blew off the job but stayed the 2 weeks in the apartment (that went with the job). She showed some tears to get out of trouble after her uncle was informed that she didn't show up for work, and then carried on doing whatever she wanted. When her roommate was murdered, she thought it was okay to lie to the police and accuse innocent people of the crime. This tells us that Amanda is also not a very nice person.

This isn't about the woman that didn't respect anything that was done for her, who lied, who pointed fingers and blamed others, and who was ultimately convicted of murder. This is about a murder, a murder scene, forensic evidence and circumstantial evidence. As a totality, it resulted in the convictions of three people.

 

[otto]

I never said the judicial system in Italy was worse than America, I think it is far better. Just not in this case. I do not care if Amanda is American or not. Of course it sparked the initial interest, but how on earth could her being American make her innocent?

Are you suggesting that if the victim was Algerian and the convicted was Bulgarian, you would be writing about convicted murderer as the victim?

 

[otto]

They are positive that the two left Sollecito's apartment? Do they show up on video camera? People absolutely saw them?

They pair claimed that they watched movies, ate dinner as late as 11 PM, showered, used the computer and so on. They tried to fill the time between 8:45 and 1 AM with activities that could not be confirmd. There was no computer activity after the movie ended at 9:10, and that activity was generated by the computer. Dinner was before 8:40 based on the discussion between Raffaele and his father at 8:42. Amanda supposedly showered at Raffaele's in the evening, but showered at the cottage at the morning because she didn't like Italian showers ... uhm ... but liked the Italian shower at the cottage better. Bottom line ... no alibi, and a load of rubbish. The pair could not account for their activities between 8:45 PM and 6 AM (when the computer was again used and phones were turned on). The pair claimed they slept until 10 AM, but again, electronics proved that to be untrue.

What were they doing between 8:45 PM and 6 AM? Nothing they said could be confirmed or rather, everything they said turned out to be a lie. Evidence places them at the cottage.

 

[otto]

I thought time of death was fixed at 9:30-11:00 pm??? Hendry of course believes it happened very early, and very quickly - due to Meredith's aborted call and to her having her coat on. Simple case of poor girl walks in on burglary in progress...... The crimeshots piece speculates that AK and RS MAY have gone in and seen what Rudy had done, which means they somehow felt responsible. Might they have suggested that he rob Meredith's room, never suspecting how it would all turn out? this has occurred to me more than once, and obvioulsy to that writer as well. they stupidly clean up or stage because they do not want Rudy caught, fearing it may somehow point back to them? which obviously proved disastrous. It has been speculated that the scream heard was NOT Meredith, but Amanda, realizing what had happened to MK.

There was a thin blue blood covered hoodie on the bedroom floor. According to Meredith's British friends, what coat was she wearing on that cold November evening?

 

[otto]

Guess i will have to read it....I posted above your 2 while you were posting this, and i still believe that that may be a huge part of the whole story. Did R mean by "load of rubbish" the fact that the 2 were home all night?:waitasec:

Raffaele was questioned a couple of times, just like the British friend and several other witnesses. Raffaele told police a story about using the computer late into the night, sleeping until 10 and other lies. When confronted with hard facts like phone records, or perhaps other solid evidence, Raffaele told police that he told them "a load of rubbish". He too lied to police ... just like Amanda. We have two liars making up an alibi that was contradicted by solid evidence. Next he tried to put it all on Amanda, by saying that he doesn't know what she did between 9 PM and 1 AM. Basically, their stories fell apart during questioning.

 

[otto]

Meanwhile, I'm still waiting for some real evidence to place AK in MK, room....
till then, and since I just do not know what happened that night in MK's room, I have to say I have reasonable doubt that AK was involved... and she must go free...

There is evidence of all three murderers at the crime scene, which is what matters.

 

[stilettos]

There is evidence of all three murderers at the crime scene, which is what matters.

Is there any unquestioned evidence that places Amanda at the scene that can not be explained away by her residing in the crime scene? I mean unquestioned, verified by experts on both sides of the pond.

 

[SMK]

You seem to have bought into the Knox PR team media frenzy, whose main objective was to make this all about Amanda. Amanda is an unremarkable woman from Seattle that went to Europe, and appears to have decided that she could do whatever she wanted. We know that in Berlin, where her uncle found her a job and an apartment for 2 weeks, she blew off the job but stayed the 2 weeks in the apartment (that went with the job). She showed some tears to get out of trouble after her uncle was informed that she didn't show up for work, and then carried on doing whatever she wanted. When her roommate was murdered, she thought it was okay to lie to the police and accuse innocent people of the crime. This tells us that Amanda is also not a very nice person.

This isn't about the woman that didn't respect anything that was done for her, who lied, who pointed fingers and blamed others, and who was ultimately convicted of murder. This is about a murder, a murder scene, forensic evidence and circumstantial evidence. As a totality, it resulted in the convictions of three people.

I never viewed Amanda as remarkable. My sister and I studied abroad in the 80s, as have millions of others, and I see it as no big honor and no big deal. I never said Amanda has remarkable character ( she sure is pretty, though, in my opinion, but that don't make her innocent). She has seemed like a bit of a dork to me.... I just think as Old Steve does: I don't care if it is an orangatang being prosecuted, i just don't like the evidence.

 

[minazoe]

the only pro-guilt speculation I ever conjured up was one where Amanda tells Rudi to rob the house...the end result being , she could then have an excuse to move in with Raf..or he woud invite her to move in...and she could then tell her mother she feels safer living with her boyfriend...after all she may have been feeling unwanted at the flat in some respects.

but..again they have no evidence against these two...none.

 

[SMK]

Raffaele was questioned a couple of times, just like the British friend and several other witnesses. Raffaele told police a story about using the computer late into the night, sleeping until 10 and other lies. When confronted with hard facts like phone records, or perhaps other solid evidence, Raffaele told police that he told them "a load of rubbish". He too lied to police ... just like Amanda. We have two liars making up an alibi that was contradicted by solid evidence. Next he tried to put it all on Amanda, by saying that he doesn't know what she did between 9 PM and 1 AM. Basically, their stories fell apart during questioning.

why were they disbelieved when they said they were home? what is wrong with turning off one's cell phones (to eat, to have sex)---why were their 2 computer hard drives damaged by police? how could Raffaele know for a fact where Amanda was if he were fast asleep? i still think the police harrassed them---why did SO much of the original theory fall apart....why did they make such a thing over Amanda texting "see you later" to Patrick. the whole thing is very shaky...

 

[SMK]

the only pro-guilt speculation I ever conjured up was one where Amanda tells Rudi to rob the house...the end result being , she could then have an excuse to move in with Raf..or he woud invite her to move in...and she could then tell her mother she feels safer living with her boyfriend...after all she may have been feeling unwanted at the flat in some respects.

but..again they have no evidence against these two...none.

Thanks. Interesting, and certainly if true would NOT make them murderers, just scared.....My own thought was that they may have half-jokingly said something along the lines of , "Oh, if you need $$$ Rudy, everyone will be out tonight, get Meredith's rent $$$ from her room"-(I actually knew someone who did this in college, only to be shocked when the robbery was actually committed) --never suspecting M would come home, and things would escalate. Then, they may have gone to the cottage in the middle of the night, only to be horrified at what they had "caused". That scream that was heard resonates as Amanda to me. Yes, there is no evidence of a 3 on 1 murder. Rudy, yes---AK and RS somehow inadvertently involved as I said, POSSIBLY....would still be 95% Rudy's fault. for the murder, his 100%

 

[otto]

Is there any unquestioned evidence that places Amanda at the scene that can not be explained away by her residing in the crime scene? I mean unquestioned, verified by experts on both sides of the pond.

I have to say that I'm not the least bit interested in what pseudo-experts in the US (people that have never examined the real evidence) have to say. There is evidence of Knox DNA and Meredith's blood in Filomina's bedroom. We also have foot prints made with haematic substance in the hallway that have been attributed to Amanda. They were visible with the use of luminol. This has been verified by experts and accepted by the courts.

I should add that pseudo-experts on the US side of the pond have suggested that the footprints were made with fruit juice (not sure who drinks fruit juice with haematic substance), and that the mixed DNA in Filomina's room got there because Amanda had been in Filomina's room, and the blood got there some other way and fell on DNA that was already on the floor.

 

[otto]

the only pro-guilt speculation I ever conjured up was one where Amanda tells Rudi to rob the house...the end result being , she could then have an excuse to move in with Raf..or he woud invite her to move in...and she could then tell her mother she feels safer living with her boyfriend...after all she may have been feeling unwanted at the flat in some respects.

but..again they have no evidence against these two...none.

What do you think they were talking about during the 11 month long trial ... if there was no evidence?

 

[SMK]

There was a thin blue blood covered hoodie on the bedroom floor. According to Meredith's British friends, what coat was she wearing on that cold November evening?

don't know, but the sleeves being turned inside out suggest M was wearing it, and got "dragged out of it"---
I know you do not like Hendry, but let us just forget about "the old coot" as they call him at PMF, and look to what he is saying:

Following is what appears to have happened: After entering the cottage at about 8:50 pm, Rudy begins to go through Filomena Romanelli's room. He also takes a quick look in Laura Mezzeti's room, where he leaves a drawer partly open. While looking around in the place, he realizes he needs to use a toilet, so he goes to the nearby bathroom. After a couple of minutes, he hears a sound at the front door and realizes someone has come home. Meredith Kercher arrives at the front door of her apartment flat at about 8:55 pm. She is wearing a blue zippered Adidas jacket over a thin, off-white long sleeved sweatshirt with a tee shirt overlay. She is also wearing blue jeans and red and white Puma shoes. Meredith is carrying an off-white shoulder bag, which contains, among other things, a book she has borrowed from a friend. Upon entering she locks the door from the inside and walks straight to her room.

There, she walks to the far wall and turns on the overhead light. She tosses the borrowed book and a notebook on the bed and hooks the shoulder bag on the desk chair. It is 8:56 pm. Meredith now gets out the cell phone she uses to call her family and friends in the UK, sits down on the edge of her bed, and initiates a call to her mother.

For reasons only Rudy knows, he makes the decision to go to Meredith's room, neglecting to flush the toilet lest he lose the element of surprise. Armed with a sharp pocketknife, he bursts into the room and confronts Meredith. She stands up, but Rudy grabs her before she can react defensively. She pulls away, but he turns her around and brings her flush against his body. This early struggle results in lateral contact with the bed frame and mattress and possibly the corner of the nightstand.

Once Rudy has Meredith under control from behind, he positions the tip of his knife against the right side of her throat. He makes three knife wounds to the right side of the throat during this initial phase of the struggle, with one being a stab wound that penetrates about 1-1/2 inches. Meredith instantly begins bleeding and raises her right hand to the wounds.

Rudy’s intent with these initial knife wounds may be to subdue and control his victim rather than to kill her. But as the struggle moves across the room toward the window near the desk, it becomes more violent. Either Rudy is consumed with an urge to kill, or he cannot control Meredith any other way, or he realizes she has recognized him.

Eventually Meredith falls to her knees. Rudy, still on his feet, straddles her from behind. From this vantage point, he grabs her jawbone with the fingers of his left hand, pulling her head back Then, with his right hand, he stabs her throat and drives the knife blade to its full depth. He pulls the blade upward until the wound is 3 inches in length. Large quantities of blood immediately flood onto his hand and his pants.

Rudy releases Meredith’s head and steps back as she collapses and begins to eject a large volume of blood onto the floor in front of the wardrobe closet. The initial blood deposits are likely oriented in the direction of the nightstand. Meredith attempts to crawl in a clockwise direction, propped on her right hand while clutching her left hand to her throat. She probably remains fully conscious for only a minute or so.

With the struggle over, Rudy seizes the collar of the blue sweatshirt Meredith is wearing and pulls her toward the nightstand, leaving a heavy trail of blood. After moving her upper body for about 1-1/2 feet in a counterclockwise arc, the jacket begins to come off, and she is caught up in the mat on the floor, so Rudy tosses it toward the desk.

http://www.salem-news.com/articles/december042010/amanda-know.php