Warrant for 12-26-96

[Ames]

Yeah, it's a nice little excuse for not giving up the goods when a civil party could use them.

And that is what really ticks me off!!! Nevermind a child has been murdered!!!

 

[BBB167893]

As long as they cover their a**es.

 

[JMO8778]

JMO8778,

Tape can be seen in the crime-scene photographs lying on the white blankets.

Interestingly Fleet White, despite being told to stay away from the wine-cellar, returned to explicitly examine the tape, he must have seen something that was compelling enough to return and check out, whatever he noted, may also be described in the redacted part of the search warrant affidavit?

.

yes,I think FW immediately noticed something was amiss and went back to check it out,no doubt.

I also wonder if the White's were the ones who first noticed that Patsy and JB were both dressed in the same clothes they saw them in the previous night.(for JB,her shirt).

 

[Nuisanceposter]

So let me ask you guys...on another board, I was saying that not waking Burke and sending him out of the house and then not going to pick him up straight away upon leaving the hellhole looked like the Rs knew what happened to JB and that Burke was in no danger...

And an IDI that I have a higher measure of respect for asked me about the Fernies and the Whites, and how they also did not seem to be afraid that having the Rs at their houses would attract the kidnapper/killer, since the Whites took Burke to their house that day and the Fernies took in the Rs that night.

Why didn't the Whites and the Fernies fear their homes and families being attacked by this intruder who targeted the Ramseys and kidnapped/killed JonBenet?

That's a very good question, and something I hadn't considered before. I'm not really sure how to answer that, other than I suspect that they also did not believe the RN was authentic, and did not believe whoever did this would be coming back to finish where he left off.

In addition, the element of surprise was on the side of the intruder (if there was one) in his Christmas night attack. He would not have that advantage if he tried to stage a second attack, whether it be on the Rs or the Ws or the Fs, or anyone who watched tv that day and heard about the Ramsey child found dead in her own home. Doors would be locked, alarms set, people on alert.

What do you guys think?

 

[Blondieskatz]

Well one explanation of the White's and Fernie's not worried about any danger to their family is that they knew the Ramsey's. They were there and witnessed the Ramsey's behavior and probably had the "gut" feeling that something wasn't right about the whole situation from the start.

I would hate to think they actually knew anything and didn't come forward. Maybe, when JR passes away the case will be closed, all evidence will be released and the White's and Fernie's will start talking (they won't have to worry about a lawsuit).

Wouldn't you think that the R's would have a very close watch on Burke for years after this happened afraid that history could repeat itself? Just another thing that makes you go hmmmm!

 

[JMO8778]

So let me ask you guys...on another board, I was saying that not waking Burke and sending him out of the house and then not going to pick him up straight away upon leaving the hellhole looked like the Rs knew what happened to JB and that Burke was in no danger...

And an IDI that I have a higher measure of respect for asked me about the Fernies and the Whites, and how they also did not seem to be afraid that having the Rs at their houses would attract the kidnapper/killer, since the Whites took Burke to their house that day and the Fernies took in the Rs that night.

Why didn't the Whites and the Fernies fear their homes and families being attacked by this intruder who targeted the Ramseys and kidnapped/killed JonBenet?

That's a very good question, and something I hadn't considered before. I'm not really sure how to answer that, other than I suspect that they also did not believe the RN was authentic, and did not believe whoever did this would be coming back to finish where he left off.

In addition, the element of surprise was on the side of the intruder (if there was one) in his Christmas night attack. He would not have that advantage if he tried to stage a second attack, whether it be on the Rs or the Ws or the Fs, or anyone who watched tv that day and heard about the Ramsey child found dead in her own home. Doors would be locked, alarms set, people on alert.

What do you guys think?

there was LE protection at the Fernie's.I think both families were just doing whatever they could to help.we don't know that they didn't fear,perhaps they were on guard,constantly on the lookout.but when FW took BR back to his house,JB hadn't been 'found' yet.so to him it would appear the whole gist of the plot,from the RN, was concentrated on JR and JB.

 

[IrishMist]

In addition, the element of surprise was on the side of the intruder (if there was one) in his Christmas night attack. He would not have that advantage if he tried to stage a second attack, whether it be on the Rs or the Ws or the Fs, or anyone who watched tv that day and heard about the Ramsey child found dead in her own home. Doors would be locked, alarms set, people on alert.

What do you guys think?

If I put myself in the place of the Whites or Fernies, this is the line of thinking I would have originally taken, I'm sure.

 

[DeeDee249]

To me, none of the R friends seemed very worried about a similar attack on their own families. Nor did BR seem at all worried that the same thing that happened to his sister would happen to him. As a matter of fact, he seemed blase` about the whole event- the kidnapping (at that time on the morning of the 26th, when he was sent to the White's, as far as anyone knew she WAS kidnapped). He also apparently was not concerned about the fact that they were not going on the Disney cruise - nor about being away from his parents at such an upsetting time. From all accounts, he said nothing. Not even "what happened?" So either he was pathologically isolated from his immediate family or he already knew what the situation was.
Either their friends felt the attack was meant to target JonBenet specifically, or they felt something was not right.
What no one picked up on at the time- The Rs made quite a point of inferring that this horrible act was done to target JR and his family, according to the RN. Yet, PR warns all of Boulder to "keep their babies close to them".
The "killer" wasn't after the babies of Boulder- his target was (supposedly) JonBenet.

 

[Ames]

there was LE protection at the Fernie's.I think both families were just doing whatever they could to help.we don't know that they didn't fear,perhaps they were on guard,constantly on the lookout.but when FW took BR back to his house,JB hadn't been 'found' yet.so to him it would appear the whole gist of the plot,from the RN, was concentrated on JR and JB.

I agree! I believe that since they had LE protection at the Fernie's...that the families were doing whatever they could to help out. As far as FW goes, I believe that he knew that something wasn't right, from the beginning.

 

[JMO8778]

I agree! I believe that since they had LE protection at the Fernie's...that the families were doing whatever they could to help out. As far as FW goes, I believe that he knew that something wasn't right, from the beginning.

I would sure be suspect if met at the door by someone wearing the same clothes at a party I had the night before,w/ their child missing and a long-winded RN on the scene.
And then when JB is found,wearing the same shirt from the night bf..something must have clicked in his head.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

To me, none of the R friends seemed very worried about a similar attack on their own families. Nor did BR seem at all worried that the same thing that happened to his sister would happen to him. As a matter of fact, he seemed blase` about the whole event- the kidnapping (at that time on the morning of the 26th, when he was sent to the White's, as far as anyone knew she WAS kidnapped). He also apparently was not concerned about the fact that they were not going on the Disney cruise - nor about being away from his parents at such an upsetting time. From all accounts, he said nothing. Not even "what happened?" So either he was pathologically isolated from his immediate family or he already knew what the situation was.
Either their friends felt the attack was meant to target JonBenet specifically, or they felt something was not right.
What no one picked up on at the time- The Rs made quite a point of inferring that this horrible act was done to target JR and his family, according to the RN. Yet, PR warns all of Boulder to "keep their babies close to them".
The "killer" wasn't after the babies of Boulder- his target was (supposedly) JonBenet.

I hate to speculate about Burke, because I see him as almost as much of a victim of this entire circus as JonBenet (assuming he was not involved), but I have to agree that I find his lack of what I would consider to be appropriate emotional response highly intriguing. I understand what it's like to be shy and/or introverted, so I can dismiss some of his blasé (excellent word choice) attitude as being hidden beneath the surface to observers yet still very real to Burke, but it seems to go beyond that.

Why wasn't he afraid on the 26th? Why wasn't he asking questions? Why did he just stroll on out the door with no fear of the person who supposedly kidnapped his baby sister while he slept? Why didn't he hear this parents screaming and running around that morning, and if he did, why did he feel that he was better off faking sleep than interacting with his own mother and father? Why didn't he seem to be afraid to return to school, to go out with friends, to even sleep in his own bed at night?

His sister had been kidnapped from her bed down the hall from him with their parents right upstairs...he should have been afraid to go to sleep or be alone for quite some time.

I think there was a dysfunctional family dynamic very evident in the Ramsey family, and Burke was left alone too much, to the point that he was emotionally isolated from his own family members...not just his mother and/or father, but also the sister that he seemingly just forgot about as he moved on with his life. God, that's sad - I fear Burke is the one who may actually hold the key that unlocks Pandora's Box. I really hope that one day he comes forward and offers up any knowledge he has about what may have happened that night or who did it or why...but I'm not holding my breath.

As for the Ws and the Fs, here's what I wanna know - didn't either PW or BF look at the ransom note and see the similarities to Patsy's writing and style of speech? If it's as obvious to us as it is, how obvious would it be to friends of hers who saw her writing and heard her talking all the time? Even Patsy's own family members noticed it.

Good point about "keep your babies close" vs. "this killer targeted JR through JB."

 

[Ames]

I would sure be suspect if met at the door by someone wearing the same clothes at a party I had the night before,w/ their child missing and a long-winded RN on the scene.
And then when JB is found,wearing the same shirt from the night bf..something must have clicked in his head.

That may have been why he went back down to he WC. He was trying to piece things together that just didn't add up.

 

[JMO8778]

That may have been why he went back down to he WC. He was trying to piece things together that just didn't add up.

yes and Thomas says he first noticed in the pics and from (I think) Officer French's descriptions,that Patsy was wearing the same clothes from the night bf...I kinda wonder if it was the White's who pointed that out.The pics would confirm it though.

 

[JMO8778]

I hate to speculate about Burke, because I see him as almost as much of a victim of this entire circus as JonBenet (assuming he was not involved), but I have to agree that I find his lack of what I would consider to be appropriate emotional response highly intriguing. I understand what it's like to be shy and/or introverted, so I can dismiss some of his blasé (excellent word choice) attitude as being hidden beneath the surface to observers yet still very real to Burke, but it seems to go beyond that.

Why wasn't he afraid on the 26th? Why wasn't he asking questions? Why did he just stroll on out the door with no fear of the person who supposedly kidnapped his baby sister while he slept? Why didn't he hear this parents screaming and running around that morning, and if he did, why did he feel that he was better off faking sleep than interacting with his own mother and father? Why didn't he seem to be afraid to return to school, to go out with friends, to even sleep in his own bed at night?

His sister had been kidnapped from her bed down the hall from him with their parents right upstairs...he should have been afraid to go to sleep or be alone for quite some time.

I think there was a dysfunctional family dynamic very evident in the Ramsey family, and Burke was left alone too much, to the point that he was emotionally isolated from his own family members...not just his mother and/or father, but also the sister that he seemingly just forgot about as he moved on with his life. God, that's sad - I fear Burke is the one who may actually hold the key that unlocks Pandora's Box. I really hope that one day he comes forward and offers up any knowledge he has about what may have happened that night or who did it or why...but I'm not holding my breath.

As for the Ws and the Fs, here's what I wanna know - didn't either PW or BF look at the ransom note and see the similarities to Patsy's writing and style of speech? If it's as obvious to us as it is, how obvious would it be to friends of hers who saw her writing and heard her talking all the time? Even Patsy's own family members noticed it.

Good point about "keep your babies close" vs. "this killer targeted JR through JB."

as far as BR goes,if he inherited Patsy's bipolar traits (and IMO, she had plenty of them),or disorder,I know from personal experience it can make someone seem 'different'.Its not something you can always put your finger on,but ppl with it just don't always tend to think like most ppl do..something is definitely amiss in their thinking.It's literally as if parts of their brain aren't working,emotional as well as rational behavior included.I don't know how much this could explain BR's behavior,but I can't help but think it explains at least some of it.
I also think BR was afraid of JR,and did whatever he was told to do without questioning it.His voice on the 911 call confirms it,IMO.BR was obviously told to go back to bed and to not get up or even speak until JR came to get him ! I think he was behaving as he was told to that morning.

 

[Ames]

as far as BR goes,if he inherited Patsy's bipolar traits (and IMO, she had plenty of them),or disorder,I know from personal experience it can make someone seem 'different'.Its not something you can always put your finger on,but ppl with it just don't always tend to think like most ppl do..something is definitely amiss in their thinking.It's literally as if parts of their brain aren't working,emotional as well as rational behavior included.I don't know how much this could explain BR's behavior,but I can't help but think it explains at least some of it.
I also think BR was afraid of JR,and did whatever he was told to do without questioning it.His voice on the 911 call confirms it,IMO.BR was obviously told to go back to bed and to not get up or even speak until JR came to get him ! I think he was behaving as he was told to that morning.

I agree, I think that he was doing as he was told too. As far as the part of your post that says.. "I also think that BR was afraid of JR".....Well, I think that BR is STILL afraid of JR.

 

[JMO8778]

I agree, I think that he was doing as he was told too. As far as the part of your post that says.. "I also think that BR was afraid of JR".....Well, I think that BR is STILL afraid of JR.

good point! likely so.

 

[Albert18]

...I also think BR was afraid of JR,and did whatever he was told to do without questioning it.

I couldn't agree with you more on this.

I have never understood why people think Burke acted so strange. Then they use this to try to implicate the poor kid in the crime.

It's like seeing somebody being hit on the head with something that staggers them for a minute and then jumpiing to the conclusion that the person must be drunk because they stumbled. Ahhh, maybe the blow to the head cause the stumble.

Poor Burke was on his own that morning. All he could do was retreat into himself and that is what he did.

 

[Blondieskatz]

All we really have to go on, as far as Burke goes is what the Ramsey's have told the public. He may have asked a lot of questions behind closed doors, he might have been afraid to sleep in his own bed, but we have no way to know what he was told about that night by his parents. Or if he woke up sometime during the night or even that morning (which, I have a hard time believing he DID NOT). JMO

 

[UKGuy]

All we really have to go on, as far as Burke goes is what the Ramsey's have told the public. He may have asked a lot of questions behind closed doors, he might have been afraid to sleep in his own bed, but we have no way to know what he was told about that night by his parents. Or if he woke up sometime during the night or even that morning (which, I have a hard time believing he DID NOT). JMO

Blondieskatz,
Additionally we also know that much of the parents version of events said to have taken place after arriving back from the White's is inconsistent. e.g. JonBenet placed sleeping in bed but later discovered to have snacked pineapple, or that she was carried into the house, but Burke maintains she walked in.

So Burke really does know if his parents told the truth, he was there, he probably sipped tea, as JonBenet snacked on pineapple. His father offered a picture of father and son engaged in some playtime together, so Burke can confirm this. Also Burke may have been aware of any events leading upto JonBenet's death and any following e.g. any unusual noise etc.

All three Ramsey's have colluded in the death of JonBenet, never mind any legal fix, and for whatever reason: fear, loyalty etc, Burke's continuing silence constitutes collusion, also the dysfunctional nature of the Ramsey family lifesytyle may be the final contributing factor towards the maintaining of his silence?

.

 

[DeeDee249]

Blondieskatz,
Additionally we also know that much of the parents version of events said to have taken place after arriving back from the White's is inconsistent. e.g. JonBenet placed sleeping in bed but later discovered to have snacked pineapple, or that she was carried into the house, but Burke maintains she walked in.

So Burke really does know if his parents told the truth, he was there, he probably sipped tea, as JonBenet snacked on pineapple. His father offered a picture of father and son engaged in some playtime together, so Burke can confirm this. Also Burke may have been aware of any events leading upto JonBenet's death and any following e.g. any unusual noise etc.

All three Ramsey's have colluded in the death of JonBenet, never mind any legal fix, and for whatever reason: fear, loyalty etc, Burke's continuing silence constitutes collusion, also the dysfunctional nature of the Ramsey family lifesytyle may be the final contributing factor towards the maintaining of his silence?

.

Certainly, a dysfuctional family dynamic is at play here, and has always been a factor. But at 9-10 years old, it can't be called collusion as far as BR is concerned. Family loyalty, i.e. what will happen to ME if my mom and dad are in jail, sent away, etc. is a big factor. Kids are still very ego-centric at that age. Now, as far as we know, BR is a college student. Still young enough to be dependent on family. His sister and mother are gone, as are his grandparents. Only his father and aunts. (shudder). Of these, perhaps his dad is the lesser of evils.
At the age he was when his sister was killed, I am sure his parents impressed on him VERY strongly the need to keep family secrets.
Remember, housekeeper LHP claimed to have caught BR and his sister "playing doctor" or similar activity; not at all uncommon among siblings. With his sister having been groomed to act sexual in an inappropriate way for a child, and he himself on the cusp of puberty at nearly 10, I would be surprised if it didn't occur occasionally.
Who knows- BR may have been told that his behavior with his sister could put him in jail- the dictionary opened to the word "incest"....
So BR would be old enough to understand the importance of keeping family "secrets". His parents may have been "blackmailing" him to do this, in a way, by saying that if anyone finds out that Mom or Dad were responsible for his sister's death, what would happen to HIM? And if anyone found out that he had been playing "sex games" with her, maybe the police would put HIM away, too.
Only BR knows what he was told. I think the time for him to come forward would be when he is truly an independent adult, possibly when his dad passes away. Not much is heard about the two of them now. When the news about JR and Beth Twitty came out, nothing was said about BR or his whereabouts.