Warren Jeffs FLDS compound in Texas surrounded by police #4

[Leila]

Some statistics about the FLDS:

1. In 1890 the LDS denounced polygamy, but some members refused to give up this practice and were excommunicated. These members banded together to form polygamy communities, with a leader/president usually referred to as "the prophet."

2. The FLDS members believe that a man must have at least three wives to insure entrance to heaven. The more wives, the better.

3. Women are considered a possession, a servant, and strict obedience to her husband and to "the prophet" is demanded.

4. All children are taught to fear anyone outside the cult as soon as they are old enough to understand.

5. Female children are groomed to become wives and mothers, and are taught that this is their only role in life, and above all......obedience.

6. According to ex-FLDS members who've escaped, children are physically abused to instill fear. Beatings, food and water withheld, and being locked in a closet has been stated. Deliberate use of spanking and holding a child's face under a water tap to "break them" has been attributed to Merrill Jessop, who is the leader of the YFZ ranch.

7. According to ex-FLDS members, there is incest among the FLDS. There are reports of some female children as young as 5-years-old being molested by their fathers.

8. Female children are considered ready for marriage and having children as soon as they reach puberty. It is reported by ex-FLDS members that sex is forced upon young girls, by much older men, and the child has no choice.

9. Women and children are not free to come and go from the community. They are virtually prisoners.

10. Teenage boys who are at all rebellious, or are seen as competition for the older men, are forced to leave the cult with no skills to cope.

11. Warren Jeffs decreed that children will not play with toys (stated by Flora Jessop on Nancy Grace on 04-21-08). This is the reason we've not seen any toys in the tour of Marilyn's home.

12. In building the perfect FLDS community, Warren Jeffs, took children age 6 and under from their biological families in other states, and sent them to the Texas ranch to live with other families. No doubt this is why there's some Canadian children among those removed from the YFZ ranch.

13. Because of generations of inter-marriage within the cult, genetic diseases are now showing up in children born into the group.

Above are some statistics about the FLDS gleaned from various online material on the cult. If I was in charge, and had to make a decision as to whether the children were safer remaining at the YFZ ranch, or with CPS, it would be no contest. The children are by far safer with CPS than they would be if left at the YFZ ranch. And again, if I were in charge, the mothers would be separated from their children, as I feel they've demonstrated that they owe more allegiance to their "prophet" than they do to their children.

 

[Fairy1]

Pedophilia or paedophilia (Commonwealth usage) is the primary or exclusive sexual attraction of adults to prepubescent children.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia

Usage of the correct term indicating the age they are attracted to seems to be important to the ones I have seen on blogs.

They also don't call themselves child molesters. They are "child lovers". More specifically "girl lovers or boy lovers."

That doesn't make it right.

 

[Ca-Sun]

You are so right! Michael Jackson doesn't consider himself a pedophile either.

Even members of NAMBLA will tell you they aren't pedophiles.

 

[Fairy1]

Glow - what exactly is your position here? Do you honestly believe that this case can - or should - be handled as any other CPS case in the state of Texas? Or any other state for that matter? This is a unique situation and must be handled as such. The FLDS wants the world to believe they are suffering religious persecution. That is so completely removed from the truth. They hide behind their "religion" in order to perpetrate sexual abuse of minors. I notice the only wives on TV are the older ones. Where are the the 14 year old wives with 2 or 3 children? Oh yes, they are being protected by the state of Texas.

 

[mysteriew]

Placing the children with relatives is a counter intuitve suggestion, given who we are talking about here.

the "proof" is in these words,

in Tom Green County, where San Angelo is located, only 286 children were provided foster care.
Even the Houston/Dallas area, which has the most resources available, ends up sending children to other counties for care, said Johana Scot, director of the Parent Guidance Center in Austin. The center assists parents whose children have been removed.
"San Angelo doesn't have the capacity for [this]," Scot said. "If they do end up going into foster care, they'll be all over Texas. It will be a mess."
Because San Angelo is isolated in west Texas, fewer resources are immediately available - such as lawyers, judges and mental health professionals

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_8859784

You should check out the link! There is a lot more there.

Why would it be counter intuitive? Some have relatives who have left the sect. Some have relatives who are LDS, not FLDS. Some relatives may even have never been associated with the sect.

 

[Fairy1]

Some statistics about the FLDS:
Snipped for space....


Above are some statistics about the FLDS gleaned from various online material on the cult. If I was in charge, and had to make a decision as to whether the children were safer remaining at the YFZ ranch, or with CPS, it would be no contest. The children are by far safer with CPS than they would be if left at the YFZ ranch. And again, if I were in charge, the mothers would be separated from their children, as I feel they've demonstrated that they owe more allegiance to their "prophet" than they do to their children.

Leila, I totally agree. Children are remarkably resilient and can be saved. Most of the "mothers" I've seen in the media say they "want THE children back" - not THEIR children. The babies are a form of currency for them - particularly the girls. The majority of the boys are disposible to this sect. Shameful....

 

[Fairy1]

Even members of NAMBLA will tell you they aren't pedophiles.

O.M.G. What is your point?

 

[Ca-Sun]

O.M.G. What is your point?

My point is that people who abuse children don't see themselves as what they really are - pedophiles. The lowest of the low. There is NO excuse that could ever justify hurting a child.

What did you think I meant? I was simply adding to what was being said.

 

[Glow]

It's almost a given that the children will be moved to other counties. San Angelo is small and doesn't have the resources needed for this. However, that isn't necessarily bad. There are some great group homes in the state of TX that could take groups of siblings in to keep them together. I read an article last week (and posted a link), that said they were going to put them in group homes rather than individual foster homes.

And look who you are quoting here from this article, Johana Scot, director of the Parent Guidance Center in Austin. The center assists parents whose children have been removed. Of course they are going to put the worst spin possible on this situation, they have a vested interest in doing so.

Yes I carefully read who was being quoted Barb. I think more and more we are going to see that many people are invested in this for their OWN reasons...political or whatever, still their own agenda. I remember the link you posted about this. I try to read every link that anyone posts. In this case, if it goes that far I actually think group homes might be less traumatic since these children are used to being in "big" groups of children. It might mimic the communal living style they are used to in some lesser way.

 

[Glow]

This is a unique situation and must be handled as such.

That is exactly what I would like to see.:clap:

Forget protocol and try something different. What's in place is a dismal mess so this would be an ideal time to think outside the "protocol."

 

[Leila]

That is exactly what I would like to see.:clap:

Forget protocol and try something different. What's in place is a dismal mess so this would be an ideal time to think outside the "protocol."

Does your concept include returning the children to the YFZ ranch to be with their mothers?

 

[barb0301]

Yes I carefully read who was being quoted Barb. I think more and more we are going to see that many people are invested in this for their OWN reasons...political or whatever, still their own agenda. I remember the link you posted about this. I try to read every link that anyone posts. In this case, if it goes that far I actually think group homes might be less traumatic since these children are used to being in "big" groups of children. It might mimic the communal living style they are used to in some lesser way.

I agree that group homes might be the best option here. I personally think that the state is going to retain custody for a while and the kids will be placed "somewhere". I even thought about getting our license renewed in order to volunteer to take some of the children. Group homes would really work best though. As in the case of the older boys, they are able to isolate them from the rest of the kids there at the ranch and give them a more "normal" environment. At the same time, they will be able to provide educational resources, legal resources and medical resources if necessary. The staff onsite is specially trained to work with large groups of children. My husband and I spent some time visiting a foster child at one of these types of homes and it was remarkably well run and the "foster parents" were magnificent people.

To me, it's the best option available for both the kids and the state. We'll see what happens.

 

[Fairy1]

That is exactly what I would like to see.:clap:

Forget protocol and try something different. What's in place is a dismal mess so this would be an ideal time to think outside the "protocol."

And - in your opinion - what would that protocol be? What exactly do you propose?

 

[Fairy1]

My point is that people who abuse children don't see themselves as what they really are - pedophiles. The lowest of the low. There is NO excuse that could ever justify hurting a child.

What did you think I meant? I was simply adding to what was being said.

Sorry - I was afraid you were defending these freaks - which you clearly weren't. Of course many of them don't see themselves for what they really are. But, obviously, that doesn't make it ok. Based on the exposure the FLDS MEN have to the outside world, they know exactly what they are. And they know they can get away with it as long as it's cloaked in religion.

 

[barb0301]

Good information on DNA testing, and how they WILL be able to sort out relationships (of course, that depends on whether or not the parents give DNA)

http://www.ksat.com/news/15935275/detail.html

 

[Glow]

Oh yes it is!:furious::furious::furious: I was molested at age 13. Does that fact that I already had my period make it any less of a pedophile??? NO! In fact my molester took an interest in me as young as age 4 or 5, he used to rub up against me from behind on the pretext of getting my coat!

I'm going to requote myself in answer, since Glow has ignored this post of mine:


Moreover, when I got my period at age 11, did that mean I was mature enough to have a baby?????

Hi Linask,

I am sorry that I didn't respond to you. I felt that some of your previous posts bordered on the "type" of posts that I let go right by. After reading your words above I felt that I should respond to you. I don't know you at all and you don't know me but the language of "childhood innocence" betrayed is universal. I could see it and feel it in your words. I am so sorry that the little girl that was you had to experience what you did. I can only imagine how confused and uncomfortable you felt when this other person acted as they did. I cant speak as to "what" category that individual falls in to. I don't know if this person who robbed you by their actions was an adult sexual predator or it was a teen aged baby sitter or neighbor boy. Perhaps it was a relative, it often is. Regardless I am so very sorry for what you were forced to experience as a little girl.

glow

 

[philamena]

............ I don't know if this person who robbed you by their actions was an adult sexual predator or it was a teen aged baby sitter or neighbor boy.

IT DOESN'T MATTER IF THE PREDATOR WAS A TEEN OR AN ADULT OR A FRIGGIN BABY SITTER.....SINCE she was only 13 when this happened, a SEXUAL PREDATOR ABUSED HER.
WHY don't you understand that?

THERE WILL NEVER, EVER BE AN EXCUSE OR REASON TO ACCEPT SEXUAL ABUSE OF A CHILD THAT IS A MINOR.

There is a reason you use such dogged determination when taking up for sexual predators. I find that very scary.

 

[LinasK]

IT DOESN'T MATTER IF THE PREDATOR WAS A TEEN OR AN ADULT OR A FRIGGIN BABY SITTER.....SINCE she was only 13 when this happened, a SEXUAL PREDATOR ABUSED HER.
WHY don't you understand that?

THERE WILL NEVER, EVER BE AN EXCUSE OR REASON TO ACCEPT SEXUAL ABUSE OF A CHILD THAT IS A MINOR.

There is a reason you use such dogged determination when taking up for sexual predators. I find that very scary.

That's specifically why this time I didn't state whom it was, because it is irrelevant. Posters who have known me for a long time know whom I am talking about.

 

[philamena]

I'm sorry you were attacked in that way, Linask. (((hugs)))

 

[Glow]

Good information on DNA testing, and how they WILL be able to sort out relationships (of course, that depends on whether or not the parents give DNA)

http://www.ksat.com/news/15935275/detail.html

I am glad to see them explain the technology involved in sorting out the relationships, regardless of how intricate they might appear to be.