Warren Jeffs FLDS compound in Texas surrounded by police #5

[Fairy1]

Yep. Mothers who fail their children due to their own faults are in a whole other catagory from mothers who are so blinded by fanatisism that they willingly hand their children over to child molesters. I honestly think that the only reason a mother would ever conciously turn her back on her child is because some male 'prophet' said so...and she was so brainwashed that she believed him.

Why haven't all women realized that we are the ones who make life; that we are the ones who make breath? Why would any woman listen to a man telling her to be silent while giving birth? I just don't get how people believe these con-men cowards. I guess they breed them into it. Certainly no one from 'the real world' joins.

Oh Truly - we are kindred spirits! :clap: :clap: :clap:

 

[barb0301]

Because any marriage after the first is "spiritual" LE has no recourse there. They must investigate and prosecute under other circumstances.

Hi Fairy !!

In TX, we do recognize common law, and the adults in ElDorado could be prosecuted under our bigamy law. There is a 3 part test to determine if you are legally married under the TX common law statute, and you can find it here (good info too) http://www.co.travis.tx.us/dro/common_law.asp

UT and AZ, I believe, must have a formal marriage license for it to be considered a legal marriage.

 

[mollymalone]

So far, 80 men and women have submitted DNA in the hope of being reunited with their children, Ms. Rolfe said.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/25/us/25raid.html?ref=us

I wonder how many of that 80 is from the 175 ordered to submit, or whether these are the voluntary ones?

 

[Leila]

I had seen the trailer for Banking on Heaven before but didn't find it again until tonight. Others may have posted it. Anyways, one woman talks about drowning deformed babies as acceptable behavior. Below is the link if you haven't seen if before.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gI6pBftroEc

Thanks Suzy! I hadn't seen this one before, and it was excellent.

 

[Fairy1]

Hi Fairy !!

In TX, we do recognize common law, and the adults in ElDorado could be prosecuted under our bigamy law. There is a 3 part test to determine if you are legally married under the TX common law statute, and you can find it here (good info too) http://www.co.travis.tx.us/dro/common_law.asp

UT and AZ, I believe, must have a formal marriage license for it to be considered a legal marriage.

Hiya Barb! I know I've said this before, but I seem to recall a common law marriage is legally recognized after a certain number of years. Do you know if that's the case in Texas? I wouldn't doubt old Warren looked into this before building his compound there.

 

[cheko1]

Watch this interview of Carolyn Jessop describing her escape from the FLDS. All these years later, the anxiety in reliving that night is severe. You can see it in her face and hear it in her voice. Notice her breathing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJAvqc5u9KM

SuziQ,
My heart was pounding so hard. I can't imagine the fear she felt...especially when her daughter re-entered the home & she had to go find her.

 

[mollymalone]

There's a program in Canada called the Fifth Estate and they do indepth documentaries and interviews.

http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/bustupinbountiful/interview.html
Interviews with:
WINSTON BLACKMORE - Bountiful, B.C. is rumoured to have 26 wives and some 80
children, excommunicated "Bishop of Bountiful" who had disagreements with Warren Jeffs.

SAM BROWER - Sam Brower is a private investigator based in Cedar City, Utah. He was
hired as an investigator by a firm representing a number of victims of Warren Jeffs in a civil
law suit. Brower's law firm has successfully put pressure on Utah Attorney General Mark
Shurtleff to make a move and take over the UEP Trust.

MARK SHURTLEFF - Utah Attorney General Mark Shurtleff was re-elected for a second
term as Utah Attorney General in November, 2004. Shurtleff is the first Utah official to
take on polygamy since a disastrous raid in 1950. When first elected AG in 2000 he
decided to take on the polygamists and end generations of abuse.

JANE BLACKMORE - Former wife of Winston Blackmore. As the first of his 26 wives Jane
says she lived a privileged life and stood by Winston during their 17 years of marriage
bearing him 7 of his reported 80 children.

DEBBIE PALMER-Given in marriage at age 15 to a 57 year old man.
It was only after her third 'celestial marriage' that she found the courage to run from
the community with her 8 children. After years of silent suffering she has emerged as
a leading activist against polygamy.

 

[cheko1]

I think she will too. With all the lying the mothers did about who is who and whose child is it, how would the judge know if the person requesting to get a child back is even the parent of one of the children in custody?

One question I have, if the parents of the children don't obey the court ordered DNA- can't the judge declare the children abandoned because the parents did not present themselves to be identified as a parent?

I heard on Nancy Grace the other evening a lawyer answered that question & That lady that is a Judge Pero (Not sure how to spell it) stated: it will be considered abandoned children.

 

[mollymalone]

Now take this for what its worth considering it's coming from Winston Blackmore, an Flds leader. There may be some truth in what he says because two of his wives left him to follow Jeffs in the big bust up between them.

Hana Gartner: SO WHY ARE PEOPLE FOLLOWING HIM?
Winston Blackmore: And one of the biggest reasons is – the reasons why a lot of the men are
is their wives would leave them in a second. You know, if, if they didn't follow Warren.
Hana Gartner: WHY, WHAT KIND OF POWER DOES HE HAVE OVER THE LADIES?

Winston Blackmore: A good question, but he does. If he told those – if he told, told the women
to leave their husband, they do, and they don't even ask any questions why.

Hana Gartner: HE THREW A LOT OF MEN OUT, RIGHT?
Winston Blackmore: Yeah, he did. He told their wives to leave them and they left. And in one
week's time, they were someone else's wives.

 

[Pepper]

I keep hearing references to blood atonement. I want to know if this really happens, and if so, couldn't the perps be arrested for murder? Do you think anyone will ever talk about this?

 

[Truly]

Oh Truly - we are kindred spirits! :clap: :clap: :clap:

Awwww...that's sweet.

I know we must refuse to let these serial child rapists own the word 'sweet'!

Sweet is what children really are!

The FLDS order to 'Keep Sweet' is just some nasty old perverted child abuser forcing kids to submit to rape by twisting a perfectly good word into his own sick disturbing distorted lies. {I really hate the FLDS and every other person who would lie to a child in order to sexually assault them.}

Sweet. Let us remember what it really means. It does not mean little girls raped by nasty old men.

I hope that these people who have abused children on such a massive scale rot in prison. Or hell. Whatever they fear the most.

Mutually consenting adults can do whatever floats their boat.

But when they harm children, it's time to sink that ship of fools.

 

[mollymalone]

Pepper, Warren Jeffs was talking about bringing it back, and I believe it was Carolyn Jessop who was afraid that he would. I think I recall Evril LeBaron's sect did practice it. As far as Jeffs, it would have only been a matter of time...

 

[Pepper]

Thanks Molly!

After watching the trailer, I really want to see Banking on Heaven.

 

[mollymalone]

Thanks Molly!

After watching the trailer, I really want to see Banking on Heaven.

You're welcome Pepper! I do too. I'm reading those interviews by the Fifth Estate and its interesting to see how Jeffs and his control is described by those who were close to him as well as by that investigator.

 

[Leila]

I think she will too. With all the lying the mothers did about who is who and whose child is it, how would the judge know if the person requesting to get a child back is even the parent of one of the children in custody?

One question I have, if the parents of the children don't obey the court ordered DNA- can't the judge declare the children abandoned because the parents did not present themselves to be identified as a parent?

Mysteriew........I think the judge can declare the children abandoned if they fail to abide by simple court order. Here in California, in a custody case, if one party fails to comply with a court order, the judge usually finds for the other party. In Texas, the state is one party to the custody case and the parents are the other party. If the parents fail to comply with a court order, the judge could find for the state.

 

[mollymalone]

"Jane Blackmore: Just since I have been a midwife I have a very close relationship with a lot of women in the community. And there was this 15 year old girl who was married and she became pregnant just very soon after she was married and she was crying and she didn't want to be married. She didn't want to be pregnant. She was 15…

This girl's mother was married to Winston and she is not Winston's daughter and I said Winston 'weren't you supposed to be this girl's parent? Like this girl's mother is married to you. Like aren't you supposed to be her parent?' And I said 'how come, how come she was married – she was 15? And he said 'well mother, I want you to mind your own business because you are not the bishop'. And I said 'this is my business, these girls come to me and I deal with it.' So I said,' I think this is my business, I don't think these girls should be married.'

Jane Blackmore: I don't want to be part of this - and I have a 9-year-old girl who is very intelligent and I don't want her to be married when she is 15 or 16 or 17. I want her to go to school and be the scientist that she dreams about being."

 

[mollymalone]

"Debbie Palmer: It's all about sex, it really is. There is great pretence that it's a very moral sort of back to basics family fundamentalist type of community but there's sex everywhere."

"one of the really horrific things about some of the inbreeding that has happened in the polygamist communities is that most of the men that have been in positions of control that have instigated these marriages are men that have studied breeding stock in animals .”
Hana Gartner: THIS IS ALL BASED ON ANIMAL HUSBANDRY?
Debbie Palmer: Yes it is."

 

[barb0301]

Hiya Barb! I know I've said this before, but I seem to recall a common law marriage is legally recognized after a certain number of years. Do you know if that's the case in Texas? I wouldn't doubt old Warren looked into this before building his compound there.

In TX, there is no length of time requirement. The 3 tests that you must go through are:

A: Three elements must be present to form a common law marriage in Texas.

• First, you must have "agreed to be married."
  Second, you must have "held yourselves out" as husband and wife. You must have represented to others that you were married to each other. As an example of this, you may have introduced you partner socially as "my husband," or you may have filed a joint income tax return.
  Third, you must have lived together in this state as husband and wife
  

The FLDS "spiritual marriages" would meet each of these 3 requirements, therefore being a legal common law marriage. If they have found documents of the temple to add to that, it would just be additional evidence.

 

[mollymalone]

Barb, among other charges some of them could be facing charges related to bigamy, what about failure to support? The women are on welfare and yet the man is still head of their household. Could they charge them with that?

 

[Leila]

Today's exodus included the women and 63 children. Seventeen women with babies 12 months and under were to be taken to a care facility with their children.
Texas Child Protective Services workers separated 47 women from their children. Of those, 40 went to another, undisclosed location, and seven returned to the polygamous Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints' ranch in Eldorado.
http://www.sltrib.com/ci_9044448

Wow...........that's interesting! From the way it's worded, it sounds like 40 women opted to go to a shelter rather than be returned to the FLDS ranch. If that's true...........then we may have some adult women who have decided to leave the FLDS. And not just a handful, but 40 out of 47!