Warren Jeffs FLDS compound in Texas surrounded by police #5

[golfmom]

LadyBass I read your first post.........and I don't think you have to apologize one bit.

I think I too can recognize the voice of a black person, went to school with ton's of black people, was the only white music major to ever graduate from this school, have been around the music business for years, and have very close friends and neighbors who are black but are educated and speak just like I do. . I've been called "UGLY" which to a young black girl mean's 'good lookin'........a white 'honkey by the the black kids at the playgrounds where I worked.........So what!


Hey, does nobody here watch Saturday nite live or the late nite shows.
Get over it. I don't think LadyBasses comment was not the least disrespectful and those of you who think so I consider 'white honkies'!

P.S. I am also voting for Barack Obama.
:woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:

xxxxxxxooooooo
mama

Back to thread............sorry to interupt.

xxxxooooo
mama
:blowkiss:

Well Love_Mama, I was willing to let the subject drop, however, I do consider the claim that someone can identify a person's race by voice only very offensive. It's no different than claiming you can tell a person's sexual orientation by their voice as well. It doesn't matter to me that your voting for Obama.

 

[LinasK]

I do consider the claim that someone can identify a person's race by voice only very offensive. .

I was gone from this thread for awhile when the claims were made. Tell me exactly what about identifying a person's voice is offensive?????

 

[mollymalone]

http://humanproject.blogspot.com/2006/09/text-of-warren-jeffs-song-for-students.html

Deseret Morning News, Thursday, September 07, 2006
Text of Warren Jeffs song for students
Text of a song taught to first- and second-grade students in FLDS schools

Excerpt: WE LOVE YOU, UNCLE WARREN
Uncle Warren is a tall man; he is nearly six-feet-four,
He sometimes has to duck a bit when coming through a door;
But never is he known to flee or duck responsibility.

 

[LinasK]

http://humanproject.blogspot.com/2006/09/text-of-warren-jeffs-song-for-students.html

Deseret Morning News, Thursday, September 07, 2006
Text of Warren Jeffs song for students
Text of a song taught to first- and second-grade students in FLDS schools

Excerpt: WE LOVE YOU, UNCLE WARREN
Uncle Warren is a tall man; he is nearly six-feet-four,
He sometimes has to duck a bit when coming through a door;
But never is he known to flee or duck responsibility.

Kind to all, full of love, doesn't hold a grudge, plain man, shuns riches?????:bang:
Not at all the public face of the Warren Jeffs we know!

 

[Native New Yorker]

Sorry, but I have to chime in with my two cents as to voices...
I lived in Georgia for nearly 20 years, and if you hear poor white Southerners speak, it is often heard to discern their race...many of them sound just like black folks....they have lived in close proximity for hundreds of years, unlike in the more segregated North.
I am a native Yankee, but married a Southerner. Have also traveled in Miss, Ark, Ala....
no way to tell over the phone, is what I say...
but I found nothing offensive in the original observation, since it could mean that Sarah is still out there.

 

[mollymalone]

Kind to all, full of love, doesn't hold a grudge, plain man, shuns riches?????:bang:
Not at all the public face of the Warren Jeffs we know!

Nope! Private jets, fancy red car, laptops, wigs, lotsa money and let's not forget the grudge one! Excommunicating those who say "no or why?"

http://www.ruralwomyn.net/polygamy_lecture.html
A lecture where Jessop spoke about the women's hygiene. I'd read about the Lost Boys and their lack of knowledge regarding hygiene and I'd wondered just how many of the women there had std's since they were sharing the men. Jessop says that many of them have infections because they only wash their hair. Wearing that much clothing and it gets awful hot in high temps, the thought is ugh!

 

[mollymalone]

Women suing to end abuse
http://www.ruralwomyn.net/polygamy_2004_02.html

"Rodney Parker, a Salt Lake City attorney who represents the polygamist groups in Colorado City; Hildale, Utah; and Bountiful, has said that members of the fundamentalist church deny charges that women or girls are forced into marriage. "They enter those relationships voluntarily with the consent of their parents and extended family," Parker wrote earlier this year in a letter to Utah Attorney General Mark Shurtleff. "Although their model of marriage by revelation runs counter to traditional notions of romantic love and marriage, the model works for them because they have confidence in it," Parker added."

http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2006/07/06/lost_boys/index2.html
"Some boys ran away or left after a family member did. Others were ousted for violations such as wanting to go to public school, something that Rod Parker, a Salt Lake City attorney and church spokesman, denies.
Parker said it was hard to generalize about the boys, but noted they were not involved with the church anymore because of the choices they made.

"These people are minimizing the reasons for their not being part of the church anymore," he said. "They tend to be juvenile delinquents, they tend to have criminal problems, they have drug problems. They have all kinds of things going on with their lives that are incompatible with the church."

Edited to add this link: http://www.ruralwomyn.net/polygamy.html
Rod Parker, a Salt Lake City lawyer who represents the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in the adjoining towns of Hildale, Utah, and Colorado City, Ariz., said stories of young teenagers being forced into marriage were exaggerations. "I don't see it happening," Mr. Parker said. "In rare instances, girls under 15 are married to other teenagers, but that is not common in the community I represent."

THIS IS THE SAME PARKER WHO IS ATTORNEY FOR THE FLDS that's been in the news recently. Talk about spin and turning a BLIND EYE.

 

[LinasK]

I started watching the Video: "Lifting the Veil of Polygamy"-82 min. long, (I have to go now), but I learned that what appealed to the women was the prospect of them becoming Goddesses!

 

[barb0301]

So do I. That's why I'm hoping the FLDS parents were treated the same way other parents are treated.

Do other parents get individual hearings before their children are taken from them?

Or does The State take the kids away/place them in
foster care FIRST, then give the parents a hearing afterwards?

Hi Seven,
the way it works here in TX, is that under "emergency circumstances" (which is what CPS is calling their removal of the children), the children can be removed from the home (and both parents, incl. all adults living within that home), with an order from the judge, given ex parte. An emergency hearing must be held with the judge within 3 working days of removal of the child. Parents do not have to be there. An adversarial hearing must be held within 14 days to decide if the child will remain in custody temporarily or return to the home. Parents are entitled to be present and/or represented by counsel at the adversarial hearing.

The biggest differences in this situation have been:

• The number of children removed
• Mothers were allowed to accompany their children (CPS never allows a parent to accompany a child removed from the home)
• The adversarial hearing was held as a "group" hearing within the 14 days, due to the sheer numbers, rather than 400+ individual hearings (this is what the lawyers for FLDS are arguing now and appealing).

Individual hearings are scheduled to be done by June 5th for all 462 children now in state custody. WHEW, what a job !!!

 

[mollymalone]

I started watching the Video: "Lifting the Veil of Polygamy"-82 min. long, (I have to go now), but I learned that what appealed to the women was the prospect of them becoming Goddesses!

:chicken: Well, if their "man" is supposed to be come Gods and rule planets that might appeal to a certain amount of the women, especially those who embrace the lifestyle even with it's negative aspects. But I don't see how they'd be goddesses since they're lower caste than the men. Heck, even on those planets they'd be wanting younger goddesses than them.

 

[Seven]

Hi Seven,
the way it works here in TX, is that under "emergency circumstances" (which is what CPS is calling their removal of the children), the children can be removed from the home (and both parents, incl. all adults living within that home), with an order from the judge, given ex parte. An emergency hearing must be held with the judge within 3 working days of removal of the child. Parents do not have to be there. An adversarial hearing must be held within 14 days to decide if the child will remain in custody temporarily or return to the home. Parents are entitled to be present and/or represented by counsel at the adversarial hearing.

The biggest differences in this situation have been:

• The number of children removed
• Mothers were allowed to accompany their children (CPS never allows a parent to accompany a child removed from the home)
• The adversarial hearing was held as a "group" hearing within the 14 days, due to the sheer numbers, rather than 400+ individual hearings (this is what the lawyers for FLDS are arguing now and appealing).

Individual hearings are scheduled to be done by June 5th for all 462 children now in state custody. WHEW, what a job !!!

Thank you, barb0304!

I suppose the State could point out that the parents failed when asked (if they were in fact asked) to identify which children were theirs. Because that would have forced The State to find temporary accommodations for the children while their parentage is sorted out.

I got another question ..... Is polygamy against the law in Texas?

I know the FLDS try to squirm out of it by saying there's only one legal marriage and the rest are "celestial" marriages, but does that fly as a defense against what the FLDS (and others like them) are obviously doing?

 

[Seven]

:chicken: Well, if their "man" is supposed to be come Gods and rule planets that might appeal to a certain amount of the women, especially those who embrace the lifestyle even with it's negative aspects. But I don't see how they'd be goddesses since they're lower caste than the men. Heck, even on those planets they'd be wanting younger goddesses than them.

LOL .... starting to sound a lot like "72 virgins" in heaven!

Apparently, men when thinking with the little head can believe anything!

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

BREAKING NEWS: All sect children have now been shipped out from San Angelo Fairgrounds


http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008/apr/25/more-buses-leave-coliseum/

 

[mollymalone]

http://www.childbrides.org/dakota.html
Picture of guard tower at Pringle SD compound.

These places all seem to have prison like guard towers. A "religion" with guard towers yet the faithful are no longer allowed to attend church. PFFT

 

[barb0301]

Thank you, barb0304!

I suppose the State could point out that the parents failed when asked (if they were in fact asked) to identify which children were theirs. Because that would have forced The State to find temporary accommodations for the children while their parentage is sorted out.

I got another question ..... Is polygamy against the law in Texas?

I know the FLDS try to squirm out of it by saying there's only one legal marriage and the rest are "celestial" marriages, but does that fly as a defense against what the FLDS (and others like them) are obviously doing?

Yes, polygamy is against the law in TX. TX also recognizes common law marriages, so the FLDS "celestial" marriages are legal marriages here in TX.

The failure of the parents to cooperate in the investigation by giving proper i.d.,names, names of children, etc. could conceivably add more charges to them from the research I am doing now. I'll update on that later when I finish. But it definitely will not help them to get their children back. TX is going to take a hard stand on allowing children to go back to homes without proper parentage established, either by DNA or legal adoption papers or something.

 

[golfmom]

I was gone from this thread for awhile when the claims were made. Tell me exactly what about identifying a person's voice is offensive?????

I'm not exactly sure what I can add to the conversation other than some members have stated that they can tell the race of a person by their voice alone.

What if a person is racially mixed? Can their percentage be determined? At what racial mix do they lose the "color" in their speech?
What if a person is adopted and raised in a community outside of their race? Would those vocal racial identifiers still be so strong that you can determine their race?
What about a second generation American? Can you identify their family's origins?
If as the poster claims that they can "mock" a black speech patterns, are black's physically incapable of "mocking" a "whites"?
So, if someone of another race, speaks English proper, do you then say they're "speaking white?" What about all those little suburban wannabe gangsters? Are they "speaking black?"
Is it not stereotypical and discrimination to assume that all whites speak "white" English and all blacks speak "black" English?

 

[LinasK]

What if a person is racially mixed? Can their percentage be determined? At what racial mix do they lose the "color" in their speech?
What if a person is adopted and raised in a community outside of their race? Would those vocal racial identifiers still be so strong that you can determine their race?
What about a second generation American? Can you identify their family's origins?
If as the poster claims that they can "mock" a black speech patterns, are black's physically incapable of "mocking" a "whites"?
So, if someone of another race, speaks English proper, do you then say they're "speaking white?" What about all those little suburban wannabe gangsters? Are they "speaking black?"
Is it not stereotypical and discrimination to assume that all whites speak "white" English and all blacks speak "black" English?

I never made this assumption, to do so would be putting words in my mouth. I have a Master's Degree in Speech Pathology (and a Bachelor's in Linguistics). Part of the curriculum besides Voice Disorders, is to study Speech Science, in which we do look at vocal patterns, pitch, intonation, inflections, etc. There are patterns that can be identified for certain people, and it may go back more than one generation. For example, my mother was raised in the midwest and said the word "roof" differently from most people in California, where I was born, yet being around my mother, I picked up her pronunciation and would sometimes say [roof], like book-short u, instead of [ruf]- long u. People would ask where I was from because of that.
Gang wannabes, although they may adopt the lingo, don't usually also pay close enough attention to also mimic the pitch and other intonation changes. There is an actual identified speech pattern called "Black English". It has certain liguistic characteristics to it, such as reversing the sk in the word ask to become [aks], and simplifying the verb "to be", such as saying "I be black" instead of "I am black".
Hope this helps answer some of your questions...

 

[LinasK]

BREAKING NEWS: All sect children have now been shipped out from San Angelo Fairgrounds


http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008/apr/25/more-buses-leave-coliseum/

So Ladybass, has there been any word on you going down there to help?

 

[Linda7NJ]

Is it not stereotypical and discrimination to assume that all whites speak "white" English and all blacks speak "black" English?

Yes it is...

I am still stunned by some of the comments............keeping notes too

 

[mollymalone]

Warren Jeff's car had several wigs in it, and apparently there are those men who don't wish to be recognized within the flds who use them. I suppose they think that if they're wearing wigs no one will recognize them from photographs. They're probably some of the men who feel they'll be prosecuted for abuse or other issues.


http://www.childbrides.org/dakota_RCJ_fences_seperate_members_society.html

Two Canadian women who recently tried to visit relatives at the Pringle compound were turned away by several men. The men were wearing wigs, but the women recognized several of them anyway, according to Cecelia Blackmore of Lister, British Columbia. Wyler said the wigs don’t make sense because as far as he knows, none of the men at Pringle is a fugitive. "It’s almost as if they’re in this fantasy land," he said. "It’s like they’re running from things. I’m sure they’ve done things they know they should run from. Half of the time, they’re running because they know they’re guilty, not because anybody’s chasing."