Warren Jeffs FLDS compound in Texas surrounded by police

[Pepper]

I have a question, too.

Why, when some Perverted Old Freaks (POF) sexually abuse children in the name of religion, do people break out the kid gloves instead of reacting with absolute outrage as they do in all the other threads about child sexual abuse?

Is there something in the bible that says that creepy old dudes have some right to Eff their young daughters? Does anybody here agree that creepy old dudes should have any right to force a young girl to have sex with her older male relatives? Speak up, anybody who actually believes that a creepy old man has the right to rape and molest children in the name of his religion.

If that is his religion, then his religion is a lie.

Of course you are right. Unfortunately this happens among other sects too, and it needs to stop! Here is an interesting link about the Amish and if you take the time to read through the pages, you will find that sexual abuse of children, as well as physicial abuse of children happens and is ignored by law enforcement, because it is thought that the Amish will punish their own. However Amish punishment is usually a period of shunning, which does nothing to prevent further abuse.

http://www.amishdeception.com/Home.htm

 

[SuziQ]

A couple of years back Flora Jessop went back to Colorado City with a news crew from 20/20 or something like that. She would only go in disguise and in a vehicle with a tinted window. She was visibly scared and shaking, you could hear it in her voice. LE in town followed them and harrased them. BTW, LE were law breaking polygamists themselves. The rumor is, and may not be a rumor at all, is that the reason Flora packs a gun is because the FLDS has put a bounty on her head.

 

[SuziQ]

These groups can be scary. I can understand why flora packs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ervil_LeBaron

While in prison, LeBaron continued to order his remaining followers to murder his opponents, including some of his wives and children. It has estimated that upwards of 25 people were killed as result of LeBaron's prison-cell orders. Many of his family members and other ex-members of the group still remain in hiding for fear of retribution from LeBaron's remaining followers. Before his death, he reportedly wrote a 400 page "bible" (The Book of the New Covenants) which included a commandment to kill disobedient church members. Some 20 copies were printed.
Several of his followers have been convicted for murder, while others are still on the run. Ervil's daughter Jacqueline Tarsa LeBaron is wanted by the FBI.

 

[SuziQ]

Mormon Fundamentalism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormon_fundamentalism

 

[SuziQ]

I still can't copy and paste from the below linked site. But LE told patrons of a coffee shop that the temple search was productive and worth the effort. That authorities found every thing they wanted and more...

http://www.myeldorado.net/

 

[Taximom]

Thanks for the updates. I remember seeing segments about this group on shows like 20/20 (or whatever). I can't believe they've gotten away with this for so long, frankly. I feel very sorry for those young girls because of what they've gone through. Hopefully life will get better for them in the long run, but it's sure going to take a while to get deprogrammed. As in decades.

 

[mysteriew]

I remember when we were looking into Synanon (sp?) and other cults. And some contact was made with past members. They were fearful and secretive decades later. Jeffs "religion" reminds me a lot of Synanon.

Very secretive, marrying at young ages, forced marriages, marriages at the whim of the "church", remarrying at the whim of the "church." Everyone required to serve the "church" leaders.

 

[mysteriew]

You know it is pretty amazing. They entered on Thurs. to get one girl. Now here it is Sun. and they are still there and more than a hundred have been removed to check on their welfare. I am so thankful that it has been peaceful, despite the leaderships threats. If Jeffs had been there I am afraid that it wouldn't have been so peaceful.

 

[ttrachel04]

i agree with you mysteriew ... even though i was VERY VERY little when it happened, i keep having memories of waco. hopefully it will NOT go that far.

 

[Floh]

I was just catching up what's been going on with the sect in the last 5 years or so. I gotta tell you, Flora Jessop is one smart cookie. She caught on to what was going on in Eldorado long before anyone else. Check out this article from 2004 where she begins to alert people that the sect may be planning to set up headquarters there. They even ask her, "What if she's wrong?"

Jessop says she is convinced that the FLDS has set its sights on Eldorado. That means she has set her sights here, too. When asked what if she is wrong about the buildings that are going up just north of town, and what if they turn out to be nothing more than a corporate hunting retreat, she just pauses and says, “I'm not wrong. This has all the signs and it people need to be aware.”

http://www.religionnewsblog.com/6586/who-is-flora-jessop-and-why-is-she-coming-to-eldorado

I remember from way back then the stories about Eldorado. and the circumstances of the FLDS.

Flora is the business! just wonderful.

i only wish the people who could have done something had listened to her.

 

[LionRun]

I just heard on our local news that they are still looking for the girl who made the call to initially report the abuse. I sure hope that she is found safe.

They mentioned that they were making sure that she is not already among the 200 or so girls who were removed from that compound. What a courageous girl to have made the initial report! She and all of the girls and children are in my prayers.

Lion

 

[SuziQ]

Still can't copy and paste. The latest is CPS aknowedges relocating 159 children and 60 adults. Most adults said to be mothers of young babies. Search ongoing, no word on when the 4 day raid will conclude. Firefighters used Jaws of Life to enter the temple. KSL.com is reporting that the 16 year old girl has not been located and authorities have not named a legal basis for removing so many people which at last count is over 200.

http://www.myeldorado.net/

 

[SuziQ]

Authorities have now removed a total of 219 residents from the polygamous ranch and are continuing to look for more children in the remote secretive compound.
Of the 219 taken, 159 are children.
Most of Sunday was spent busing the residents 45 miles northward to Fort Concho in San Angelo.
But Child Protective Services spokeswoman Marliegh Meisner said they do not believe they have found all of the children. (more at link)

http://www.star-telegram.com/804/story/565881.html

 

[Glow]

Is anyone but me wondering exactly how this is all playing out for the children who have been removed. Let me suggest some possible scenerios...

what about nursing infants? Did their mothers get to go?

What about a mother of say, a 4 year old little boy. He was taken and she is not one of the 59 adults who were also taken. What must she be feeling. How about the little boy?

What about authorities having not named a legal basis for removing so many people?

It's easy to just go with the obvious and feel relief that "somebody" is finally doing "something" about an obviously bad situation, but what kind of precedents are being established here?

 

[barb0301]

Is anyone but me wondering exactly how this is all playing out for the children who have been removed. Let me suggest some possible scenerios...

what about nursing infants? Did their mothers get to go?

What about a mother of say, a 4 year old little boy. He was taken and she is not one of the 59 adults who were also taken. What must she be feeling. How about the little boy?

What about authorities having not named a legal basis for removing so many people?

It's easy to just go with the obvious and feel relief that "somebody" is finally doing "something" about an obviously bad situation, but what kind of precedents are being established here?

According to news reports that I have read, many of the women left the compound with their children. Here is one that states some mothers left: http://www.star-telegram.com/804/story/565539.html I would hazard a guess that unless the CPS workers felt that the mother was an imminent risk to the child, they would be allowed to leave the compound with the children, at least until the initial interviewing was done and a decision was made.

At this point, only 18 girls have had been placed in foster care. A hearing is scheduled for later this week (maybe Monday) for an update on the case to the judge. As far as them not publicly announcing a legal basis, there is a gag order in place. You will not be hearing a whole lot of info from the authorities for now. According to this article, they did find enough evidence to feel as if the children were in imminent danger: http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008/apr/05/official-on-children-at-flds-ranch-it-is-not-for/

For one, I am glad it is being handled as it is. It seems as if the authorities are trying as hard as they can to respect the differences in the way of life that the children have been brought up in compared to how most of us and yet, comply with the law and protect these children. I hope that the precedent is being set that we WILL protect our children, at all costs and NOT let them be ABUSED and USED in the name of religion.

jmho !!

 

[SuziQ]

Glow, I have the same questions. Not to sound flip or make a joke, but I hope they have a good OB/GYN with this group. And while I cheer the fact that someone is finally taking action against this group, I hope it doesn't backfire and hurt futher down the line when it ends up in court...if it ever does. I hope LE is going exactly by the book. These women and children could end up being sent back to their abusers and the one's that are viewed or merely rumored as having cooperated with LE will be punished severly.

 

[mysteriew]

Technically they are going overboard to protect the women and children. If children are found to be in immenient danger, the authorities have no obligation to take the mothers too- and in all cases before, they have not done so. The children would be removed and possibly the mother would also be charged. So they are bending over backwards to make this the least traumatic as they can- both for the mothers and the children.

I am reading a lot of commentary that says LE couldn't do this. Except they can. They received a complaint of abuse, they had a duty to investigate. When they attempted to investigate, they got a search warrant to do so. Members of the compound broke the law when they attempted to deny entry to the authorities.

When child services find a child they believe to be in immentient danger, they are required by law to protect the child and remove it from a harmful situation. Getting a hearing and a court order comes later.

If authorities made any mistakes, it would be in releasing the name of the suspect in the case. When they made the call to the suspect, the leaders knew which child to hide. I fear for that child- and her child. Because either she will be beaten and threatened to deny what she said, or she will be killed so that she cannot give evidence about the church. And her child will have to be taken from her so that she cannot be matched to the child through DNA, and so that no suspect can be matched.

My greatest fear is that some girl made this call about herself, and out of fear of being found out used an alias and gave a false name about the suspect who harmed her. The man she named would have been known to her through the congregation and through his history of arrest for the other child. But she may have used his name hoping that it would give her more credibility. If she did, there is a possibility this might fail, and because of the 'scandal' involved all the others involved will be returned.... no matter what was found about them.

 

[Glow]

According to news reports that I have read, many of the women left the compound with their children. Here is one that states some mothers left: http://www.star-telegram.com/804/story/565539.html I would hazard a guess that unless the CPS workers felt that the mother was an imminent risk to the child, they would be allowed to leave the compound with the children, at least until the initial interviewing was done and a decision was made.

At this point, only 18 girls have had been placed in foster care. A hearing is scheduled for later this week (maybe Monday) for an update on the case to the judge. As far as them not publicly announcing a legal basis, there is a gag order in place. You will not be hearing a whole lot of info from the authorities for now. According to this article, they did find enough evidence to feel as if the children were in imminent danger: http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008/apr/05/official-on-children-at-flds-ranch-it-is-not-for/

For one, I am glad it is being handled as it is. It seems as if the authorities are trying as hard as they can to respect the differences in the way of life that the children have been brought up in compared to how most of us and yet, comply with the law and protect these children. I hope that the precedent is being set that we WILL protect our children, at all costs and NOT let them be ABUSED and USED in the name of religion.

jmho !!

Hi barb, I wasnt sure anyone would answer me so thank you :blowkiss:

I appreciate your references. I agree with you that the right thing is being done here if we only think about these women and children in a "right now" kind of way.

My concerns aside from that are about what this means for all of us as to the direction this country is headed in.

Exactly how is it that an armored vehicle can enter w/o a legally authorized search warrant? Has that happened?

look at this:

More details of the siege of the sprawling FLDS ranch are coming out. There was first a standoff at the gate and then at the FLDS temple. Sheriff Gary Painter of neighboring Midland County was asked to break both standoffs with his SWAT and an armored vehicle.

“They had the temple surrounded with their vehicles,” the sheriff explained. “We rolled the armored personnel carrier up and asked to be admitted and they complied."

ok, that sounds real nice but have you ever seen a group of cops making an arrest? It is always tense and the testosterone is free flowing. This sounds a little :waitasec:

also at the same link:

Other accounts say the sheriff put the options more bluntly: “Either make way so we can search or risking being run over.” Despite such confrontations, the sheriff reported no violence. “There was resistance. But that’s okay. Resistance we can handle.”

This sounds more like what would really happen in live time.

Again I want to stress that I think the cops are the good guys and the children need intervention. I am just concerned about the "way" it is all happening. Historically when societies move away from democracy and civil liberties they begin with compromising the "rights" of those on the margin of society. The people that mainstream feels indignant against already.

here is the link for the above quotes.

http://www.abc4.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=540ffaeb-dc67-40dc-8757-4f0aac3388c1

 

[Glow]

Glow, I have the same questions. Not to sound flip or make a joke, but I hope they have a good OB/GYN with this group. And while I cheer the fact that someone is finally taking action against this group, I hope it doesn't backfire and hurt futher down the line when it ends up in court...if it ever does. I hope LE is going exactly by the book. These women and children could end up being sent back to their abusers and the one's that are viewed or merely rumored as having cooperated with LE will be punished severly.

Thanks for your response Suzi. Like I said above, I didnt expect anyone to respond so I appreciate that you did! I too am glad that this situation is being handled. I still have questions like why now? Obviously this has been a problem that was known...

but thats just me :crazy:

 

[SuziQ]

Athorites have found another 32 children. They and 9 adults have been taken to CPS headquarters. Other buses seen unknown how many are being taken. Ok, I have to ask, LE has been there for four days...where are all these kids being hidden? I am now feeling this is way beyond the 16 year old girl and her baby. Either LE had info about something major before this started or they found something major after going in.

http://www.myeldorado.net/