Was BR involved? #2

[THE BUNK]

I doubt it. The Rs asked for and got an "island of privacy" for BOTH kids medical records. I can't see AH obtaining a warrant for the kids' medical records when he refused to get warrants for things like the phone records.

Why both Burke and Jonbenet?

I can understand keeping Jonbenet's records a secret..but what could possibly be in Burke's records that would warrant them being sealed?

 

[Frigga]

On December 27, 1996 detectives attempted to interview both Patsy and John Ramseys. John only agreed to a 45 minute interview as long as his brother, JonBenet's Pediatrician Dr. Beuf, and Rod Westmorland (who was John's financial adviser who introduced himself as an attorney), and a local lawyer named Mike Bynum were present. Dr. Beuf told authorities JonBent's brother Burke could not be interviewed. During the interview John did not ask any questions about the murder, the autopsy, or how JonBenet was killed. Feels more like criminals trying to defend themselves rather than parents concerned about helping the police investigators find the murderer of their child.

The pediatrician said Burke couldn't be interviewed?

How interesting.....



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I don't care how someone spins it- no innocent parent of a murdered child, found in their own home, behaves this way within 24 hours of his baby girl being found dead. No way- no how. Not how an innocent parent behaves in my book, and don't even get me statrted on the bizarre friendship and comraderie with the murdered childs pediatrician... especially one where there are implications of ongoing, chronic sexual abuse of the child. Who is this Dr Beuf? Does he still practice in Boulder?

 

[Frigga]

I have wanted to say for awhile that I find it equally disturbing we hear nothing good about Burke Ramsey from others who know him- not just the fact we hear nothing bad. We hear nothing at all... the silence is deafening, IMO.

 

[bettybaby00]

Why both Burke and Jonbenet?

I can understand keeping Jonbenet's records a secret..but what could possibly be in Burke's records that would warrant them being sealed?

B/c clearly they were hiding something.

Regarding the June '98 interview, this is from the transcript.

Present with Smit and representing the D.A.’s office was special prosecutor Mike Kane. John Ramsey was accompanied by attorney Bryan Morgan and their private investigator David Williams. Morgan expressed the desire of wanting to continue to cooperate with the D.A.’s office, but there was a caveat. Morgan stated that the family felt the need to withhold certain medical records from the criminal inquiry, claiming that they deserved an “island of privacy” when it came to the investigation into JonBenét’s murder.

The following is an excerpt from that interview:

Morgan: “I have a real problem with certain kinds of medical records. These people are entitled to an island of privacy to try to recover what they’ve been through.” “I think you will get virtually everything you’ve described with the possible exception of personal medical records that I think John and Patsy are at least entitled to make a reasonable decision on….” “I’ve already discussed these matters with Hoffstrom and he knows how we operate.”

FF 3258

The fact that a defense lawyer can make a police interview contingent on conditions benefiting his client should never have been allowed. But allow it they did, b/c you know, that's how "they operate."

And "...get virtually everything you need..."

Why wouldn't they hand over everything? These are the same people who give interviews claiming to fully cooperate with authorities. These are the same people who vilify law enforcement for "only focusing" on them.

:banghead::banghead:

To your point Frigga

I don't care how someone spins it- no innocent parent of a murdered child, found in their own home, behaves this way within 24 hours of his baby girl being found dead. No way- no how. Not how an innocent parent behaves in my book, and don't even get me statrted on the bizarre friendship and comraderie with the murdered childs pediatrician... especially one where there are implications of ongoing, chronic sexual abuse of the child. Who is this Dr Beuf? Does he still practice in Boulder?

 

[Tawny]

Where did the idea of pull ups come from? Have they ever been mentioned in MSM or case files before, regarding JBR wearing them?

 

[bettybaby00]

Where did the idea of pull ups come from? Have they ever been mentioned in MSM or case files before, regarding JBR wearing them?

Did I miss something???



hope it's not a reference to one of my own comments!

 

[Linda7NJ]

Where did the idea of pull ups come from? Have they ever been mentioned in MSM or case files before, regarding JBR wearing them?

As far as I can recall.
A package was pulled halfway out of a drawer ...
The housekeeper or Patsy's mother said Patsy decided to not use pull-ups hoping the uncomfortableness of being wet would curb the bed wetting.
According to the housekeeper, it was a big deal in the house. It wasn't "no big deal" as Patsy would later claim.




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[DeeDee249]

Why both Burke and Jonbenet?

I can understand keeping Jonbenet's records a secret..but what could possibly be in Burke's records that would warrant them being sealed?

I can't understand keeping the records secret on ANY murdered child. This was a murder- and to solve it, LE should have had access to as much information as they could. Ss for why BR as well- I think the only thing we can infer from this is that there was likely something in the records for both kids that refer to some type of inappropriate contact between them. This could also include incidents of physical, as well as sexual, assaults on JB. Revelation of this type of incidents could certainly point suspicion to BR as the killer, and part of the reason why the DA allowed the parents' request for that "island of privacy" to stand. The DA just wasn't going to allow anything that would possibly advance BR as perp to police.

 

[midwest mama]

I don't care how someone spins it- no innocent parent of a murdered child, found in their own home, behaves this way within 24 hours of his baby girl being found dead. No way- no how. Not how an innocent parent behaves in my book, and don't even get me statrted on the bizarre friendship and comraderie with the murdered childs pediatrician... especially one where there are implications of ongoing, chronic sexual abuse of the child. Who is this Dr Beuf? Does he still practice in Boulder?

Prior to deciding to become a doctor, Beuf was employed by NASA in the space program. JR related in one of his books, sorry I forget which one now, that Burke was really impressed when he saw a photo of Dr. Buef on the mantle of their fireplace taken at a NASA facility, during a visit the Ramsey's made to the home of the Buef's. IIRC, Buef was also a member of their Boulder church.

When Burke asked Buef about the photo, Buef told Burke that he decided to leave the rocket science job because he really wanted to become a pediatrician. He graduated from medical school in 1976.

From: http://health.usnews.com/doctors/francesco-beuf-498638
Dr. Francesco Beuf is a pediatrician in Boulder, Colorado. He received his medical degree from Temple University School of Medicine and has been in practice for 34 years.

His office is on Arapahoe Rd in Boulder.

 

[Tadpole12]

Where did the idea of pull ups come from? Have they ever been mentioned in MSM or case files before, regarding JBR wearing them?

Heyya Tawny

ST: JonBenet: Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation

http://books.google.ca/books?id=pC3k1vnwLhEC&pg=PA40&lpg=PA40&dq=jonbenet+ramsey+steve+thomas+pullups&source=bl&ots=IBWqnCO1xy&sig=zlqKuxyTlblEzf7PfOEtpAZZOnI&hl=en&sa=X&ei=hTBGU7DYPOah2gWrsYCgDQ&ved=0CD8Q6AEwAzgK#v=onepage&q=jonbenet%20ramsey%20steve%20thomas%20pullups&f=false

"On the stair landing just outside the victim's bedroom were a washer and dryer and some wall cabinets, and the door of one cabinet stood wide open, with a large package of pull_up diapers hanging half way off the shelf." (p.40)

LHP: http://www.acandyrose.com/s-linda-hoffmann-pugh.htm

" In the summer of "96, JonBenet started wearing those diaper type underpants-Pull-Ups. She even wore them to bed. There was always a wet one in the trash. By the end of the summer, Patsy was trying to get her to do without them. Then JonBenet started wetting the bed again. Almost every day I was there, there was a wet bed. Patsy said she wasn't going to use Pull-Ups again. She just put a plastic cover on the bed. No big deal to her. By the time I'd come in the morning, Patsy would have all the sheets off the bed and in the laundry. JonBenet's white blanket would already be in the dryer. The Ramseys had two washer-dryers-one in the basement and a stackable unit in a closet just outside JonBenet's room."

 

[Tawny]

Heyya Tawny

ST: JonBenet: Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation

http://books.google.ca/books?id=pC3k1vnwLhEC&pg=PA40&lpg=PA40&dq=jonbenet+ramsey+steve+thomas+pullups&source=bl&ots=IBWqnCO1xy&sig=zlqKuxyTlblEzf7PfOEtpAZZOnI&hl=en&sa=X&ei=hTBGU7DYPOah2gWrsYCgDQ&ved=0CD8Q6AEwAzgK#v=onepage&q=jonbenet%20ramsey%20steve%20thomas%20pullups&f=false

"On the stair landing just outside the victim's bedroom were a washer and dryer and some wall cabinets, and the door of one cabinet stood wide open, with a large package of pull_up diapers hanging half way off the shelf." (p.40)

LHP: http://www.acandyrose.com/s-linda-hoffmann-pugh.htm

" In the summer of "96, JonBenet started wearing those diaper type underpants-Pull-Ups. She even wore them to bed. There was always a wet one in the trash. By the end of the summer, Patsy was trying to get her to do without them. Then JonBenet started wetting the bed again. Almost every day I was there, there was a wet bed. Patsy said she wasn't going to use Pull-Ups again. She just put a plastic cover on the bed. No big deal to her. By the time I'd come in the morning, Patsy would have all the sheets off the bed and in the laundry. JonBenet's white blanket would already be in the dryer. The Ramseys had two washer-dryers-one in the basement and a stackable unit in a closet just outside JonBenet's room."

Thank you!

 

[chlban]

]I don't care how someone spins it- no innocent parent of a murdered child, found in their own home, behaves this way within 24 hours of his baby girl being found dead. No way- no how[/B]. Not how an innocent parent behaves in my book, and don't even get me statrted on the bizarre friendship and comraderie with the murdered childs pediatrician... especially one where there are implications of ongoing, chronic sexual abuse of the child. Who is this Dr Beuf? Does he still practice in Boulder?

BBM. This.

If there was not a shred of other evidence and even if they had done a better job of staging an intruder, if it wasn't so clear that Patsy wrote the RN, if none of those things were trrue, their behavior is the absolute give away.

Innocent parents will do anything to move the investigation along. Innocent parents do not ignore the very distinct and detailed threats in the "RN" about contacting anyone and not only never tell the 911 operator about the "threats", but then proceed to invite everyone over.

 

[THE BUNK]

I can't understand keeping the records secret on ANY murdered child. This was a murder- and to solve it, LE should have had access to as much information as they could. Ss for why BR as well- I think the only thing we can infer from this is that there was likely something in the records for both kids that refer to some type of inappropriate contact between them. This could also include incidents of physical, as well as sexual, assaults on JB. Revelation of this type of incidents could certainly point suspicion to BR as the killer, and part of the reason why the DA allowed the parents' request for that "island of privacy" to stand. The DA just wasn't going to allow anything that would possibly advance BR as perp to police.

If Burke had confessed to a child psychologist, would that information be in the file? Doctor-patient confidentiality would prevent it from being written in his record, right? Even the psychologists own notes would not be in the file, right?

 

[Linda7NJ]

If Burke had confessed to a child psychologist, would that information be in the file? Doctor-patient confidentiality would prevent it from being written in his record, right? Even the psychologists own notes would not be in the file, right?

Well, it would depend.

If he had been in private therapy at the expense of his parents...it could be written down and it would remain confidential. Actually writing it down is the personal choice of the psychologist.
Many take very brief notes only they themselves can make much sense of. They believe honoring confidentially at all costs.

If he were interviewed at the request of the court, that would not be confidential. That would be explained to Burke at the start.

All IMO



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[2 percent]

If Burke had confessed to a child psychologist, would that information be in the file? Doctor-patient confidentiality would prevent it from being written in his record, right? Even the psychologists own notes would not be in the file, right?

I think it's up to the discretion of the therapist whether they record confessions or not.

The law is pretty specific in protecting the rights of patients against disclosure except under specific conditions - threats against the therapist, another person or harm to themselves and is perceived as serious. But past acts aren't covered under this ethical code. As a matter of fact, therapists asked about this have said if they turned over information on every past confessed crime no one would ever go to a therapist again because of the lack of confidence in the patient/therapist relationship.

I find it fascinating how all of the protected relationships, privileged communications like doctor-patient, clergy-communicant, husband-wife and client-lawyer, have taken a hit except clergy and communicant. If anything the clergy and communicant has firmed up while the rest have been eroded a bit over time.

 

[THE BUNK]

I find it fascinating how all of the protected relationships, privileged communications like doctor-patient, clergy-communicant, husband-wife and client-lawyer, have taken a hit except clergy and communicant. If anything the clergy and communicant has firmed up while the rest have been eroded a bit over time.

I think it has to do with the fact that in the clergy-communicant relationship, the clergyman never writes anything down. Nor does he have office workers that would leak information. A clergyman usually never speaks on the phone so wiretaps is useless. And also add that the usually speak to a confessor in a room the size of a phone booth. I think that is what makes it difficult for confessor information to leak out.

 

[Tawny]

IMO, it's very telling that the Dr would refuse to release not only JBR's records, but BR's as well.

Why not release BR's? What's in there that would embarrass or incriminate the family? If nothing... why??

 

[bettybaby00]

IMO, it's very telling that the Dr would refuse to release not only JBR's records, but BR's as well.

Why not release BR's? What's in there that would embarrass or incriminate the family? If nothing... why??

It's beyond suspicious IMO, especially b/c it was a concession for agreeing to further interviews by the Rs. All under the guise of "cooperating."

 

[Linda7NJ]

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Please pay attention to the excellent filming and concentration on THE window.



"Police footage from the Ramseys' basement taken hours after JonBenet's body was discovered shows the window through which some believe an intruder might have come in. About 3:36 minutes in."



http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/07/18/new-clues-in-jonbenet-ramsey-murder.html



Video is about halfway down the page.



I can't for the life of me understand Lou Schmidt's window video when this was so well documented.



I've edited to include Lou's video



[ame]http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7KkcRBbTpmM[/ame]


How strange is it that Lou went out of his way, knowingly, to mislead?
We know he had the information that it was impossible to have entered that window.

 

[bettybaby00]

Kolar effectively debunks the intruder theory via that window.

But more importantly, the GJ didn't buy that story AT ALL.