Was BR involved? #2

[WhoKnowsWhat]

Folks, I've been stirred up by all of this 20-year stuff, but now I'm MAD!

For one thing, the trailer for the A&E special confirmed my suspicions: there's nothing new here. It's the same old garbage we'd expect from David Mills and the usual suspects repackaged for a new audience. One thinks of a cicada showing up every few years. And among the normal RST bulls**t is the tired, worn-out claim that anyone in the original investigation who believed in the intruder theory was dismissed. We've heard that one, right? But anyone who actually knows about this case knows that they were dismissed because they were unprofessional at best, deliberately broke the law at worst (and I'm looking at you, Lou Smit). Both Alex Hunter and Mary Lacy believed in the intruder theory like a Jesuit believes in Christ. If they got rid of people on their team, it's because those people were drawing too much negative attention.

But that's not the half of it. No, no. I'm speaking directly to YOU, John Ramsey. You say the Boulder police were convinced you did it? Yeah, that's the funny thing about police in this country: they have a knack for zeroing in on killers. But for you, an elderly, white, wealthy businessman to talk about being the "victim" of a "lynch mob" is just the latest in a SERIES of indignities that you and those who side with you, whether they were hired by you or just threw in with you, have perpetrated against the memories of the REAL victims, not just the little victim in this case, but ALL the victims of REAL lynchings!

Let me show you something, John. THIS is what a lynching looks like:

View attachment 100606

Oh, you're a great talker, John Ramsey. But as good as you are, you and Patsy were NOT the victims here. The victim was a six-year-old girl who was defenseless. But instead of thinking about her, all you've thought about is yourself. And you've taken pretty good care of yourself, haven't you? And for you to claim victimhood is more VILE, more VULGAR and more OBSCENE than anything you've ever falsely accused anyone else of being guilty of!

My man Johnny Cash said it all:

You may throw your rock and hide your hand
Workin' in the dark against your fellow man
But sure as God made black and white
What's done in the dark will come to the light
You can run on for a long time
Run on for a long time
Sooner or later, God will cut you down.

Sooner or later, God will cut you down.

Wow SD, your words sure didn't fail you. Very well said and so true.

 

[BOESP]

iirc during one of the 'interrogations the Rs were asked
if a weight might have been dropped on JBR's head.

Tadpole12 -iirc, a small barbell-like hand weight (2 or 3 pounds???) was found in JonBenet's bedroom.

 

[SuzDuJour]

While I don't believe Burke did it, I've often wondered if he'd consider hypnosis to learn if he heard or saw anything that he might not even be aware of.

 

[BBB167893]

I'm still in the BDI camp, the only thing that really throws me off is the fact that the autopsy says the blow was after the strangulation not before , I cant reconcile that to this theory ? help?

I'm pretty sure the autopsy report doesn't say which one came first. But the other pathologists said the head injury was anywhere from 30 minutes to 2 hours first.

 

[BBB167893]

Here's the question every case follower needs to ask themselves:

IF this started out as an accident -- stemming from a moment of rage by someone within the family, can you ever forgive this family?

- IF it was Patsy who dealt that blow, she's dead and gone of a horrible cancer. What more can anyone do? She's facing her Karma.

- IF it was Burke who dealt that blow, what do you think should happen to him? (A 9 yr old wouldn't have been prosecuted back in 1996).

So realistically, unless you think JR himself killed JBR, there's no "justice" to be had for the fatal blow, which experts said is what ultimately would have killed her even before the garrotte.

So in the end... can you forgive?

M74, this is a question I've struggled with for a long time. And under the terms you lay out, yes, I could. I've even said that I forgave Patsy. This is what I wrote in my book:

"If I had been with her at the moment of death, I would have told her, 'Patsy, it's all right. I forgive you. JonBenet forgives you. She doesn't hate you. She loves you. And she needs her mommy. Don't be afraid of death.'"

I know, some of you reading this are rolling your eyes. "Oh," you think, "there goes SD again, with his big, bleeding heart." And yes, Patsy did suffer horribly from her cancer. But so do thousands of people, even children, everyday, who never did ANYTHING to anyone. Just like my parents. Maybe that's it: my own experiences have prejudiced me toward feeling for Patsy. I also admit it's easy to say that now that she's dead.

But I can't forgive anyone else.

 

[BBB167893]

From a narcissistic / public image perspective , would JR have wanted to live with people knowing he married that woman and fathered children with her? Or, is it possible that he felt some modicum of sympathy for her ("It was really just an accident, I swear!") or that she blackmailed him ("I made it look like you did it, and I'll tell people that, and they'll believe me over you!")? Considering those questions, I am very open to JR going along with it if PDI.

I think it was some of both! That, and his own ego.

 

[BBB167893]

Thank you , on the ID special it stated that the autopsy concluded that the blow was AFTER the strangulation I wonder if she was actually strangled a little by hand or cord , then the blow , then the finish off with the cord ? that would make sense to me as well maybe if it was injury on injury it clouded it a bit and they really couldn't tell which was first

That theory has been around a while.

 

[BBB167893]

Wow SD, your words sure didn't fail you. Very well said and so true.

Very deliberate words, WhoKnowWhat.

 

[THATchick1021]

Another clip
Why can't they stop teasing and just let us hear his voice?? This is getting ridiculous

https://youtu.be/QeYpASGexuk

Oooh there's that lizard tongue

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[Madeleine74]

Maybe that's it: my own experiences have prejudiced me toward feeling for Patsy. I also admit it's easy to say that now that she's dead.

But I can't forgive anyone else.

Not even Burke? (if he's the one who struck the head blow)

 

[otg]

Oooh there's that lizard tongue

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Ha! You're right, THATchick. It must be hereditary :floorlaugh::

[video=youtube;At1sAG66-j4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=At1sAG66-j4[/video]

 

[ozazure]

I assume no one intended for JBR to be killed that night/morning. But the head blow, which we know came first, was swift and was either a moment of rage or some kind of 'accident.'

Let's say it might have been BR: my brother had moments of rage against me when we were little--one time he kicked me and my bottom teeth came partway through under my lip. Lots of blood (no stitches). His displaced rage was for some really good reasons I understand now, but when I was 7 and he was 8 I certainly saw no reason for it. Violence is not acceptable, but let's not pretend it doesn't happen between young siblings--we know it can and does. No, not to the level of that skull fracture, not usually.

For me, the sympathy I muster comes at the point of the head blow and then what must have been "OMG, what have I/ what has he/ done? What do we do now? I/he killed her!" PR must have thought JBR was dead; she certainly would have been unconscious.

Now what? This moment of rage or accident cannot be undone. There's no fixing it, no going back in time.

That level of desperation is something I can find sympathy for.

The instinct to try and save what's left of the family, to protect oneself or whoever did it, would be natural.

However, the way PR & JR went about it, the plan, the execution of that plan, the lies that hurt other people and the ripples out from there... that's what I think has created most of the hatred. It's the BIG LIE that mushroomed and grew and grew and grew beyond anyone's possible imagination. An accident can be accepted and forgiven, eventually. Lying and lying and lying is the ongoing wound.

Yes the impulse to protect what's left is something many can have empathy for but I think the "mushroom" you describe let's us know what fed that impulse ... not so much empathy for Burke, certainly no empathy for JonBenet, but concerned with their own experience and being able to conduct themselves in the world as victims rather than colossal failures as parents, and human beings. This level of callousness is truly breath taking ... JonBenet's death didn't have to make the media, their connections could have worked to suppress details being made public with the truth being known to police. They could move away, get Burke treatment and live in a new place where this was unknown. But then they couldn't live in the lie themselves and that was not palatable.

 

[THATchick1021]

Ha! You're right, THATchick. It must be hereditary :floorlaugh::

[video=youtube;At1sAG66-j4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=At1sAG66-j4[/video]

He really is as creepy as daddy.

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[Estelle]

Ha! You're right, THATchick. It must be hereditary :floorlaugh::

[video=youtube;At1sAG66-j4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=At1sAG66-j4[/video]

Body language: How to spot a Liat

Mind Your Mouth - Mouth, Lips, and Tongue Cues

Be careful of pursing or licking your lips. Condit pursed his lips and sucked them inward more than 14 times in his famous 2002 television interview with Connie Chung. This can indicate extreme anxiety, withholding information and withholding aggression. Tight lips indicate you may be planning to keep the truth in. If you actually suck the lips part way in, you may be withholding anger. When you are nervous, your mouth becomes dry, and you lick your lips and swallow as you struggle to find the right words to say.

http://www.pattiwood.net/article.asp?PageID=2314

 

[TeaTime]

While I don't believe Burke did it, I've often wondered if he'd consider hypnosis to learn if he heard or saw anything that he might not even be aware of.

Who wouldn't? I would be doing anything, including calling psychic hotlines, trying to find out who was responsible for ruining my life, my parents's lives, my step-siblings lives, causing so much pain, heartache and fear by murdering my baby sister in our house in Boulder, Colorado, a city so safe that hers was the only murder in 1996.

He may not remember anything of that night. Yet. Deep memories of past trauma can lie hidden for a long time and I think that is what JR meant when he said that BR was handling things well but that he suspected it would come out later, like at age 40. One day, POP!, the memory comes back. It happens.

Why is this all being stirred up now? The anniversary of her death is December.

 

[awillis0513]

Why is this all being stirred up now? The anniversary of her death is December.

Sweeps.


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[madeleine]

I've not seen a verified autopsy report that specifies strangulation BEFORE blow to the head.

Do you have a verified source for that? (not the A&E special, as I don't think they had the info correct).

IIRC it was cyril wecht writing about this scenario?

 

[UKGuy]

Who wouldn't? I would be doing anything, including calling psychic hotlines, trying to find out who was responsible for ruining my life, my parents's lives, my step-siblings lives, causing so much pain, heartache and fear by murdering my baby sister in our house in Boulder, Colorado, a city so safe that hers was the only murder in 1996.

He may not remember anything of that night. Yet. Deep memories of past trauma can lie hidden for a long time and I think that is what JR meant when he said that BR was handling things well but that he suspected it would come out later, like at age 40. One day, POP!, the memory comes back. It happens.

Why is this all being stirred up now? The anniversary of her death is December.

TeaTime,
BBM: because Christmas is time for cutesy corporate movies like Its a Wonderful World, Coca-Cola colored Santa's, lots of bell ringing, reminding you to whip out your credit card, etc.

JonBenet specials won't sell many dolls or themed music, MacDonald's won't run any burger ads against them, and Bloomingdales will not sponsor underwear either.

Once Christmas and New year is over and its time for Pizza delivery ads, and they are doing the reruns you might get: Our Sponsor brings us a JonBenet Special tonite?

.

 

[madeleine]

can we have a DR phil show thread please?

dunno where to post this

[video=youtube;fkfOUfGHJxE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkfOUfGHJxE[/video]

already makes me sick...

HE recovered the missing interrogation tapes? UH HUH

 

[eileenhawkeye]

As a case follower, I am always searching for the case on Google, Facebook, Twitter to see what people are saying. It seems to me that the upcoming Dr. Phil and Case Of episodes are getting a ton of media coverage/promo. So I am wondering...not counting the times when you purposely looked for information on the case, would you have heard about the upcoming CBS shows?

For me, the answer is yes. Three websites I have check very frequently have each posted 2+ articles about Dr. Phil and The Case Of. My friend on FB also posted the trailer for Case of, and I also saw each show trending a few times on FB.

In comparison, I feel like there's no promo for the Investigation Discovery show. It starts on Monday and is three parts. IDK, maybe we will see a lot more this weekend. Also if I didn't follow the case, I would have no idea about Dateline tomorrow or A&E's show.