Was BR involved? #2

[expat79]

These specials are making me ill and are doing nothing to further the investigation in to who killed JBR.

I disagree. These shows are throwing some serious shade at the Ramseys, either directly calling out their lies, or in subtle ways, as is the case of the Dr Phil show. If course, it's to be expected that JR would be allowed to present his side....probably a condition of allowing BR to be interviewed in the first place.

 

[johnjay]

Burke is not right, they knew it then, we see it now and they should have protected JonBenet and protected him from himself. You don't let a 2yo squish a baby chick to death, and if he is dealing with autism plus the disturbances suspected give the artefacts in the house, he was no more culpable than a 2yo playing roughly with a defenceless animal.

I have felt at peace with the aftermath of her death when the puzzle pieces fit as BDI because the adults actions made more sense, including officials who made solving this publicly a non starter ... But seeing Burke like that has me so upset at the failures in that family, at those useless parents ... Look at that house plan, you literally can't know what goes on elsewhere and they knew they had a disturbed kid ... They likely knew he was abusing her. Lazy selfish self centred horrors.

That sums it all up nicely.

 

[andreww]

exactly. No one will pay for this crime.
The ONLY way someone will pay is if JR fessed up to the murder himself. Otherwise all the other charges would be dropped. PR is dead. BR was too young.

If the truth came out, John could definitely go to jail for obstruction of justice. If Burke did this, John helped keep it quite.

 

[chlban]

I was really annoyed with the editing. It jumped around way too much. So annoying. An hour long with very little content.

This. I detest Dr. Phil and haven't watched him since he paid the Anthony's for being accomplices to a baby killer and discussing it on national TV. But I tried to watch this train wreck and it really was awful. WTH with John Ramsey? How dare he insult Linda Arndt. Yeah, I think she totally overreacted too, but as another murder accomplice, he has no right to disparage anyone.

Since I taped it, I also noticed how much of that so called hour is commercials, and I still detest the phony Doctor.

 

[andreww]

I disagree. These shows are throwing some serious shade at the Ramseys, either directly calling out their lies, or in subtle ways, as is the case of the Dr Phil show. If course, it's to be expected that JR would be allowed to present his side....probably a condition of allowing BR to be interviewed in the first place.

The average person is looking only at what people like Lou Smit is saying and taking that as gospel. I think it has become pretty common knowledge of the average person that the Ramsey's were cleared of any involvement by Mary Lacy and that DNA evidence does nothing but prove Lou Smit to have been right all along. These specials have done nothing to dispel those myths.

 

[johnjay]

If the truth came out, John could definitely go to jail for obstruction of justice. If Burke did this, John helped keep it quite.

I believe the statute of limitations is up for that.

 

[chlban]

You made an excellent point. If JR had been in on the initial cover up JBR body wouldn't have been found inside the house and the ransom note would have been short and sweet. "I got your kid. give me a million dollars and don't call the cops of I will kill her. I will call when I'm ready to make the drop."
The end.
Everything in the initial coverup had PR all over it.
The pineapple would have been more digested if she had ate it at the party. Plus a bowl of pineapple was found in the kitchen that no one could explain.

Plus pineapple was not served at the party. That was well established and not In dispute.

 

[AmyPond]

hahahahahaha at the last statement!!!
I needed a good laugh Kat!
I agree I think it was more irritating. I seriously think they misjudge people though. Most people have an idea what the case is about. The basic premise. Yet they spent SO much time going over things most people knew or have heard from JR's own mouth in interviews. I didn't even want to SEE JR. I knew when he started interviewing JR that we aren't going to learn a damn thing. I was hoping BR would step out from behind daddy and actually TRY to do what he said he wanted to do in the interview. A no holds barred interview. No lawyers. DP could ask anything.

This however is BS. JR wasn't ever mentioned as being part of the damn interview. It was supposed to be BR's time to talk.
Shut up JR! Let your son speak! Damn if they are going to throw him to the wolves then throw him. Don't dangle him over the edge.
The interview should have been like a two hour segment of BR speaking with DP only. Then maybe another hour the next day explaining why he smiled etc etc. with experts. I would have rather seen that and I damn well would have tuned in to see WHY he acted that way.
Unlike most cases, this particular case is world news. Everyone knows the basics of it. It was kind of similar to the media show on OJ.
We all know what JR and PR have said. We all know the basic story. Don't waste our time! Actually interview BR only like you hyped the show!
It just angers me how the media does. All hype no real truths.
<snip>

I don't know...a couple weeks ago, I knew very little. Never saw any interviews with the parents or anything. And until I started jabbering on about the case...literally the only thing my husband knew was that a young "beauty queen" had been murdered.

Honestly though IMHO, he's always been an odd duck. He was like this in the beginning. That's why people suspected him. Now seeing his interview.... it kind of makes even more sense.
You know they said JR wasn't rich anymore. That he was struggling. I BET the reason they are talking again is because they know even if they tell the truth, nothing will happen. It's all for money. I can imagine this check will be big. JR will disappear to some island with his bride and BR will go sit on the big windfall in his secluded world. JBR will not have justice. The end game over.
Honestly I am not going to have sympathy for BR. Not right now. Just because he mayyyy be on the spectrum? Nope. I'm sure a lot of killers have diagnosed issues right? Doesn't mean we should feel sorry for them. :notgood:
He is an adult and if it was my sister who was murdered I'd want damn justice! I'd want the killer to be caught! I'd be screaming from the roof tops for justice!
I wouldn't be like "well I wanted to talk about it because it's like people still WONDER?" What the heck!
Heck yes we still wonder and so should you! Her killer hasn't been caught!
Has anyone realized this is strictly a defense interview? Why isn't he asking who killed her?
Him not being sheltered that morning and being left in his room by himself for so long tells me what kind of parents they were. Period.
Him supposedly not wondering downstairs because he was scared? A man walks into your room shining a flashlight all around and you don't immediately
run to your parents for protection?????? You don't immediately try to hide under your bed or something? You just lay in your bed waiting?
Hell no. I don't buy it for a minute. JR is too cool and calm in the interview. He knows there is nothing anyone can do to them now. He can admit everything except that he did the murder himself and he is safe. He can throw PR under the bus and nothing will happen.
BR can admit it and due to his age at the time nothing will happen.
Makes me mad.
Let me stress this again... he is an adult.... why isn't he trying to look for the killer? Why isn't he using this chance to ask for help finding his sister's killer???

Do you know many people on the autism spectrum? We obviously don't know if Burke is on the spectrum but IF he is....he really can't be lumped in with what a neurotypical child or adult would do in these situations. Because it could be drastically different for someone on the spectrum.

Since we don't know one way or the other about Burke....for me, I just have to keep an open mind about his behaviors.

 

[chlban]

If the truth came out, John could definitely go to jail for obstruction of justice. If Burke did this, John helped keep it quite.

Could. Highly doubtful, IMO. Otherwise exemplary life, dead wife, dead daughter (even if he covered for said dead wife), troubled son.

But, yes, he could. He could be ostracized and humiliated and finally proven to be a liar as well. To everyone, not just those of us that have no doubt already. However, I don't see the truth ever coming out. Neither of the survivors are going to admit the truth.

 

[buggiegirl]

I have felt at peace with the aftermath of her death when the puzzle pieces fit as BDI because the adults actions made more sense, including officials who made solving this publicly a non starter ... But seeing Burke like that has me so upset at the failures in that family, at those useless parents ... Look at that house plan, you literally can't know what goes on elsewhere and they knew they had a disturbed kid ... They likely knew he was abusing her. Lazy selfish self centred horrors.

I can't imagine that law enforcement had any conclusive proof or concrete idea that Burke did it, if he did. They are not going to waste years pretending to investigate things, just to not name a 9 year old as the killer. If they knew he did it with any reasonable amount of certainty, they'd just quietly stop going after leads. They definitely would not have arrested JMK!

 

[PositiveLight]

OK. My second thought in regards to the ID show....
I find it so shocking that leaving out bits and pieces of a crime and changing the layout of the house (In the ID "replay" they show Patsy reading the note on a regular stair case.
See... The devil is in the details. Not the bigger picture. It could be easy to step over a note on a regular staircase. But not on a spiral staircase. See my point? When they redo this crimes for a show they need to be sure to act it out exactly as it happened. That actress wouldn't have picked it up and she couldn't have stepped over it without almost falling. She would have had a hard time reading it upside down too. If you go by PR and JR half truths that is. It just tells me more and more that it was all staged.
If they acted it out verbatim and on a spiral staircase viewers would see how this wasn't possible.

ALSO this might be geared for the more long term sleuths but... and this might be a stupid question but again the devil is in the details....
where did the pineapple come from?
Was it canned? Fresh? in the fridge? In the house before the attack at all? In what form was it?
See the reason I ask is, if it was canned I doubt JBR would be able to open it with a can opener. Not quite sure BR would either.
Neither would be able to cut it fresh either.
See where I'm going with this?
Pineapple when you think about it is a strange item to eat. It's not like cereal. Or cookies. Or a sandwich. And the glass of tea too. Not something a kid would normally drink. and not that way either.
It is all so weird....
JMOO

 

[chlban]

I believe the statute of limitations is up for that.

Not for Murder and there is a special provision for crimes against children as well. At least under Federal statutes.

 

[AmyPond]

She could have easily awaken hungry and fed herself the pineapple.

Except her prints weren't found on the bowl at all.

Could JB not have eaten the pineapple at the Christmas party right before they came home?

No pineapple was served at the party.

Watching Jonbenet An American murder mystery on ID that I recorded last night. In the first few minutes they play a snippet from an interview and PR crying says "Keep your babies close to you".
Well. She sure as hell didn't with Burke that morning when her other child was missing! She didn't run into his room and yank him up and hold him like most parents would do and keep him "close" to her thankful he was still alive and safe. Nope. They let him lay upstairs by himself while they were all downstairs. Just doesn't add up to me. He knows the real truth.
He was upstairs sleeping off a night of exhaustion after his mama covered up the crime scene all night. Either he did it or she did it. But he witnessed it all.
Shoot she might have medicated him to make him sleep that morning. Wouldn't surprise me. JMOO!

I find it so odd and sad that they let Burke stay in his room. It makes me wonder if Burke was a second class citizen in his own home because pre-murder so much attention was put on JB.

I don't think anyone would call these two good parents, that's for sure!

 

[buggiegirl]

ALSO this might be geared for the more long term sleuths but... and this might be a stupid question but again the devil is in the details....
where did the pineapple come from?
Was it canned? Fresh? in the fridge? In the house before the attack at all? In what form was it?
See the reason I ask is, if it was canned I doubt JBR would be able to open it with a can opener. Not quite sure BR would either.
Neither would be able to cut it fresh either.
See where I'm going with this?
Pineapple when you think about it is a strange item to eat. It's not like cereal. Or cookies. Or a sandwich. And the glass of tea too. Not something a kid would normally drink. and not that way either.
It is all so weird....
JMOO

I've always assumed it was something like this... http://www.traderjoes.com/images/fearless-flyer/uploads/article-691/pineapple-spears.jpg

When I buy pineapple for my small kids, that's what I buy (or the slightly more diced/smaller pieces container really). Fresh, not canned, but I don't have to like skin a pineapple or whatever.

 

[PositiveLight]

I don't know...a couple weeks ago, I knew very little. Never saw any interviews with the parents or anything. And until I started jabbering on about the case...literally the only thing my husband knew was that a young "beauty queen" had been murdered.



Do you know many people on the autism spectrum? We obviously don't know if Burke is on the spectrum but IF he is....he really can't be lumped in with what a neurotypical child or adult would do in these situations. Because it could be drastically different for someone on the spectrum.

Since we don't know one way or the other about Burke....for me, I just have to keep an open mind about his behaviors.

Ok to answer some questions. Yes I am VERY familiar with kids on the spectrum. I am a private duty pediatric nurse. I worked 12 hour shifts in homes with the kids with issues like this plus kids on vents, gtubes etc etc. So very familiar with it.
I am retired now. As of 2 yrs ago when my daughter had a difficult pregnancy and a very sick baby who is still sick. I stay home to keep her. She also has a gtube. She also has issues. So again very familiar with it. Not at all upset you asked it either. It was a very good question!

Him having issues should have made PR and JR even more concerned for his well being. Even more important that he feels safe too. Because he couldn't handle stressful situations I'm sure. Even if he did it. Hence (I love using that word now! haha) the reason that she possibly covered his crime. She knew BR was sick and he would be probably locked away in a psych facility for a long time.
If anything this is why I question him even more. He had issues obviously and maybe was very devious. Not all kids with spectrum issues are sweet and quiet. Some are very destructive and hard to handle. Believe me I've seen it.

ETA: Also wanted to add that I have family and friends with kids on the spectrum. Even my patients that were sick..... if my patient didn't have the spectrum issue their siblings did. A lot of times it runs in the family. I have a friend with 5 kids that all have spectrum issues. So in my job I ended up dealing with my patient plus their siblings. Families would see us as automatic babysitters when that is so far from the case.
I've witnessed a ton of craziness in my line of work as a nurse period. See too much in fact. I learned early as a nurse to look at all the small pieces because it is what creates the big picture. I like to know why and how something happened. I don't get grossed out either. So if something turns my head, I pay close attention. Your instinct should always be followed. There is a reason things make your radar go off. Things that make you pause even for a second. In this case particularly, there have always been tons of the little things. Tons of questions that haven't been properly asked or answered.

I was also taught to note everything. Use all of your senses. CYA- cover your own a&&. So I am particularly fond of details and why they happen haha

 

[PositiveLight]

I've always assumed it was something like this... http://www.traderjoes.com/images/fearless-flyer/uploads/article-691/pineapple-spears.jpg

When I buy pineapple for my small kids, that's what I buy (or the slightly more diced/smaller pieces container really). Fresh, not canned, but I don't have to like skin a pineapple or whatever.

Or those little cups of fruit. But I don't see her putting it in a bowl if that was the case. It's just WEIRD to me. I buy the fresh pineapple and cut it usually because i love the taste. But my kiddos have ate it all different types of ways. The only way I can see her eating it on her own would be out of a cup (even with the big spoon) or someone fixing it for her. JMOO

 

[johnjay]

Not for Murder and there is a special provision for crimes against children as well. At least under Federal statutes.

We were discussing what could happen if Burke confessed that he killed JonBenet. In that case, the legal system in Colorado can't do anything.

Exactly what Federal statutes are you referring to?

 

[johnjay]

Except her prints weren't found on the bowl at all.



No pineapple was served at the party.



I find it so odd and sad that they let Burke stay in his room. It makes me wonder if Burke was a second class citizen in his own home because pre-murder so much attention was put on JB.

I don't think anyone would call these two good parents, that's for sure!

They weren't perfect parents but who is? John was busy with his career - not that unusual. I suspect that they didn't want to believe the danger and under reacted to the situations that were happening at home - like a lot of parents would do if they found themselves in the same situation. It seems to be one of those sad tragic stories with no hope for any happy endings or crisp answers for what justice would be in this sort of situation.

 

[PositiveLight]

We were discussing what could happen if Burke confessed that he killed JonBenet. In that case, the legal system in Colorado can't do anything.

Exactly what Federal statutes are you referring to?

This is a good question too! Anyone know what legally they could be charged with at this point depending on what they say?

 

[andreww]

We were discussing what could happen if Burke confessed that he killed JonBenet. In that case, the legal system in Colorado can't do anything.

Exactly what Federal statutes are you referring to?

Actually we were discussing whether if Burke confessed, could John be charges as an accessory after the fact and whether the statute of limitations would prevent charges against John. Of course its not that simple. Even if Burke cracked her skull, its quite likely that someone else finished her off with the garrotte. Technically if BDI, he is only guilty of aggravated assault, the person that used the garrotte would be the murderer.