Was Burke a Victim of Sexual Abuse?

[nellicat]

I agree that Burke may have been abusing his sister, but the "evidence" that he himself was abused is ridiculous. Lots of little boys play openly with their penises, or they would unless an adult told them not to. My 4 year old has his hands in his pants all the time until we remind him to wait until he's somewhere private, and I can say with 100 percent certainty that he has never been sexually abused!

Regarding whether pre-pubescent children have orgasms: yes, they do, sometimes. I can vividly recall getting "that feeling" and having an orgasm from climbing/rubbing against the swingset, LOL. It wasn't until puberty hit that I connected those feelings with anything sexual. Similarly, many boys will have "dry" orgasms without ejaculation occurring until puberty.

Sheesh. Children are sexual creatures - they explore themselves and, sometimes, other children. That doesn't mean they were sexually abused by anyone else!

 

[BlueCrab]

I dont have anything in front of me supporting but if I remember correctly from what Ive read I belive the asphyxiation causes a "high" of sorts (not as intense as it is during orgasm) but there would be a sensation .

Messiecake,

You are partly correct. Breath control games can give a person a sexual high. One bizarre example of this is when a man is hanged, in death he will sometimes have an erection.

However, in EA and AEA the goal is to enhance the orgasm while masturbating.

JMO

 

[Ivy]

BlueCrab... Some years ago on the JusticeWatch forum, a couple of posters from Boulder who had young kids in elementary school said that around the time JonBenet died, kids were playing "choking games" at school. (I wonder if this was investigated by the BPD. Probably not.) I don't recall if the posters elaborated by saying the games were EA games. Do you know anything about choking games being played at Boulder elementary schools at that time?

imo

 

[BlueCrab]

It's generally known that when children have been sexually abused, they often will later become sexual abusers themselves.

CORRECTION

I was wrong about this. After Ivy challenged me, I researched the subject and found that most male victims of sexual assault DO NOT become sexual offenders later in life.

From the National Center for PTSD; FACT SHEET, by Julia M. Whealin, Ph.D.:

"ARE MEN WHO WERE SEXUALLY ASSAULTED AS CHILDREN MORE LIKELY TO BECOME CHILD MOLESTERS?"

In the article Dr. Whealin says:

"Another myth that male victims of sexual assault face is the assumption that they will become abusers themselves..... However, it is important to know that most male victims of child sexual abuse DO NOT become sex offenders."

JMO

 

[Ivy]

Interesting, BC. Thanks for posting that. It comes as a surprise to me.

Btw, I didn't challenge you. I was just askin'. :blowkiss:

 

[Deleted member 278]

Is the letter referred to in this post the mysterious letter from Shreveport?

 

[BlueCrab]

Is the letter referred to in this post the mysterious letter from Shreveport?

Rocket,

The answer is NO.

JMO

 

[VespaElf]

I agree that Burke may have been abusing his sister, but the "evidence" that he himself was abused is ridiculous. Lots of little boys play openly with their penises, or they would unless an adult told them not to. My 4 year old has his hands in his pants all the time until we remind him to wait until he's somewhere private, and I can say with 100 percent certainty that he has never been sexually abused!

Regarding whether pre-pubescent children have orgasms: yes, they do, sometimes. I can vividly recall getting "that feeling" and having an orgasm from climbing/rubbing against the swingset, LOL. It wasn't until puberty hit that I connected those feelings with anything sexual. Similarly, many boys will have "dry" orgasms without ejaculation occurring until puberty.

Sheesh. Children are sexual creatures - they explore themselves and, sometimes, other children. That doesn't mean they were sexually abused by anyone else!

I clearly stated there is a difference between healthy,normal exploration(i.e "playing doctor") and child on child sexual abuse.
Ive handled far too many cases of the latter and belive me I know the difference.


There is a difference between a "nice feeling" and an adult orgasm,as I also stated.


I don't know Id go as so far to say children are "sexual creatures".
Sexuality is a part of human behavior but with children it is not at the forefront (nor is exploration always exactly sexual in nature.
In most children it is simply that,exploration,)


Also yes "playing" with genitals is normal BUT it can/is also another sign of sexual abuse(if it is part of sexual abuse there are many other signs accompanying it).

 

[jat]

CORRECTION

I was wrong about this. After Ivy challenged me, I researched the subject and found that most male victims of sexual assault DO NOT become sexual offenders later in life.

From the National Center for PTSD; FACT SHEET, by Julia M. Whealin, Ph.D.:

"ARE MEN WHO WERE SEXUALLY ASSAULTED AS CHILDREN MORE LIKELY TO BECOME CHILD MOLESTERS?"

In the article Dr. Whealin says:

"Another myth that male victims of sexual assault face is the assumption that they will become abusers themselves..... However, it is important to know that most male victims of child sexual abuse DO NOT become sex offenders."

JMO

Notice how that is worded...there are probably many men that have been sexually assaulted as children and as a percentage, most do not become child molesters. However, men that do become child molesters were, many times (most as a percentage) victims of molestation as children.

 

[BrotherMoon]

Notice how that is worded...there are probably many men that have been sexually assaulted as children and as a percentage, most do not become child molesters. However, men that do become child molesters were, many times (most as a percentage) victims of molestation as children.

All sorts of destructive behavior both outward and inward can result from childhood molestation. Sexual molestation is boundary crossing. Boundary crossing can take a "non-contact" form: psychological boundary crossing. This is something pathological narcissists do. Patsy and Pam show the effects of having a pathological narcissist mother. Polly had enough self awareness to say no to pageants. Narcissist parents tend to have less influence on the later children as they lose energy.

 

[Deleted member 278]

messiecake -- do you remember the thread name on FFJ that discusses the letter? I checked a few times...can't find it. Thanks.

 

[Chiquita71]

CORRECTION

I was wrong about this. After Ivy challenged me, I researched the subject and found that most male victims of sexual assault DO NOT become sexual offenders later in life.

From the National Center for PTSD; FACT SHEET, by Julia M. Whealin, Ph.D.:

"ARE MEN WHO WERE SEXUALLY ASSAULTED AS CHILDREN MORE LIKELY TO BECOME CHILD MOLESTERS?"

In the article Dr. Whealin says:

"Another myth that male victims of sexual assault face is the assumption that they will become abusers themselves..... However, it is important to know that most male victims of child sexual abuse DO NOT become sex offenders."

JMO

Hello WS

Quote Respect BlueCrab

I saw the original statement re: children when they have been sexually abused will become...later. I am glad to have that information corrected. And I understand why some people believe that: it would seem to make sense but is incorrect.

(but I do want to add what jat said though is correct: it does make a difference to say it a way. Just because you were molested does not mean you will be a molester. But, many of those who do molest: were molested themselves. It just does not do to make a sweeping statement: all those who molest will molest which I believe was the sentiment in the original post.)

I am unaware there has been any resolution as to why anyone molests. My understanding is that it has to do more with control/power than sex. Incest runs deep in my husband's good southern family. When I first met them I would/could have never known that the mother, grandmother and grandfather all were involved with the molestation of three children in their family by family members.

I suppose this is why I do not find it impossible that "good people" could have murdered their daughter or that "good" family's could have skeleton's such as incest in their closet.

It is part of the reason I lean toward RDI. I do think it is strange re: everything we know about Burke, including him being on the 911 call.

Who was "not there" that morning? Burke was there but quickly sent away: everyone else was called to come over. The only other people NOT to come over and so was "not there" was the Steins: who has a son Burke's age.

Why wouldn't PR call the Steins? The last house to visit the night before with gifts but not who you call when you call everyone else. Everyone. Else.

And you send Burke away. Wouldn't you want to be holding your remaining child close to you? I would not have let my other child out of my sight that morning and not until the killer was found. :twocents:

Again, thank you for the correction.
...jmo...

 

[madeleine]

They had a bigger problem that morning than protecting Burke.Police was coming.......The way PR explains how they send him away....it's like he was in their way and they had more important things to do.....they didn't fear for his safety,otherwise why send him out there anyway,unsupervised with some kidnappers around the coroner.I ain't buying it.They knew he's safe wherever he goes.Maybe it was their home he wasn't safe in with LE arriving.

 

[madeleine]

The note said they were being watched.Weren't they afraid that one of the kidnappers would follow Burke???
Wasn't that the reason they wanted to leave Boulder immediately, leaving poor JB behind ,their "safety"?


Do they really think we're stupid or something?

 

[DeeDee249]

Let's be frank- they wanted BR OUTTA there. Before LE or anyone else could talk to him or observe his demeanor. He didn't seem too traumatized or even very upset, despite the fact that his sister had been "kidnapped".
But there is another reason why they needed him out of the house, even though logic dictates then when a child has been kidnapped, you keep your other kids with you at all times.
They also KNEW where his sister really was- dead in the basement. And they thought she'd be "found" either by LE or themselves. They surely didn't want BR there when that happened. And they knew it was going to happen because they knew she wasn't really kidnapped.

 

[Whaleshark]

Strong forensic evidence exists that JonBenet Ramsey had been chronically sexually abused. The question to answer, of course, is by WHOM? The list of possible suspects able to get to JonBenet multiple times would be very limited. So could it have been Burke who had been molesting JonBenet?

It's generally known that when children have been sexually abused, they often will later become sexual abusers themselves. But what evidence is there that Burke had ever been sexually abused?

Circumstantial evidence of sexual abuse to Burke having occurred does exist, although it is not strong. It exists in the form of written correspondence to a private party, a copy of which is reportedly in the hands of the police, but has never been released. I saw a copy of the correspondence, which has been cautiously circulated, and read it myself.

The correspondence states that Burke may have been sexually abused as a toddler, and it could have led to why at age 3 he would sit on the floor and openly play with himself. Patsy reportedly allowed him to continue so as not to "stigmatize" him. Also, Nedra reportedly had said that Burke was "mature" for his age.

The correspondence stated that Burke liked to be alone or with only one other person at a time. He particularly liked Aunt Pam and when he was with her he would order anyone else who entered the room to get out.

The correspondence revealed the early suspected molestation may have been the result of a close non-family member regularly treating toddler Burke by massaging him for an "itch" caused by circumcision. The family of the person reportedly doing the massaging, according to the correspondence, allegedly has an extensive history of child molestation, although the Ramseys were not aware of this history at the time.

If the information in this correspondence is credible, then it appears that Burke could have been a victim of child sexual abuse, and therefore a possible incest perpetrator.

But it's all JUST MY OPINION based on the information I read in the correspondence (the existence of which can be verified by one or two others in this forum and elsewhere).

BlueCrab

Is there any info about this correspondence the police received about Burke's possible molestation- all this issue, in Kolar's book? Or anywhere else?

Why haven't we discussed this more?

Was it just forgotten?

 

[DeeDee249]

Is there any info about this correspondence the police received about Burke's possible molestation- all this issue, in Kolar's book? Or anywhere else?

Why haven't we discussed this more?

Was it just forgotten?

I don't think it was forgotten at all. I think most of us have thought of that. It's just that, as far as THIS case goes, there is no concrete evidence of it, as there is with JB. Sometimes when there is a situational molester in a family, or with access to a family, more than one child is molested. But is is just as common for only one child to be targeted and no other.