Was Burke Involved? #6

[Kabken]

Burke could be the only reason a family sticks together and blocks law enforcement efforts. A ton of evidence leads in that direction granted most is circumstancial. I firmly believe he is guilty.

 

[wilkeysau]

Some have reported they've found the above link problematic due to pop-up ads. If anyone here experiences the same issue, here is an alternative link:

Afterword - Grand Jury Indictments

Neither link is working these days ‘Error 404’ page removed

 

[wilkeysau]

Some have reported they've found the above link problematic due to pop-up ads. If anyone here experiences the same issue, here is an alternative link:

Afterword - Grand Jury Indictments

Neither link is working these days ‘Error 404’ page removed

 

[wilkeysau]

Rain on my Parade,

No, because we can uncover the truth.

Note where Kolar refers to two jurors telling Charlie Brennan that the parents had been hit with a Child Abuse Count.

This process of revelation will simply multiply into the future. Kolar must be thinking along these lines as his analysis of LHP's attempts to publish her story suggests.

I reckon LHP's story will eventually be published even if its postmortem or via kindle publishing.

With Kolars latest remarks it appears the case is BDI, else why would the courts continue with sealing evidence, etc.

We all know the parents were hit with GJ Counts, so if one unsigned Count was Murder In The First Degree, why can we not all see that?

The clue lies with Kolars footnote on this subject:
Afterword, Ventus Publishing, 2021 Excerpt

Above BBM: Now for JonBenet afficionados the important word there is unindicted.

Which I suspect must mean both parents were hit with Murder In The First Degree, as they formed part of a conspiracy to evade detection, e.g. Count VII, Accessory to a crime

This explains why both parents had similar counts?

The case being BDI explains why it was never going to court and why Hunter did what he did, along with all the other lukewarm interviews undertaken by BPD investigators, they knew the case was going nowhere?

Kolar has read up on much of the case evidence including the GJ testimony, so his opinion on many fronts are really facts he cannot claim as such, due to his legal duty of non-disclosure.

We should all support Kolar in his efforts, make sure his book is well known as this will encourage him to reveal more nuggets of information as time passes, and will secure Justice for JonBenet.

.

Sadly (from what I understand of the US/Colorado legal system) is that if BDI, the parents could have just admitted that instead of circling the wagons because he was under the age of legal implication at the time and could not have been charged.

Personally, while I see JR as intelligent enough to recognize that “out” - I’m not so sure PR would have let that happen…I just don’t think that there will ever be a resolution to this matter because a) BR was of and age he could not be charged for the crime if he did it, b) PR is sadly no longer with us and cannot answer to anything more that comes out, c) JR has moved on and now simply needs to stick with everything “as advertised”, and d) the likelihood of anything new and verifiable coming out now from the police, prosecutors or public is very limited.

FW has the answers. I’d almost guarantee it.

 

[UKGuy]

Sadly (from what I understand of the US/Colorado legal system) is that if BDI, the parents could have just admitted that instead of circling the wagons because he was under the age of legal implication at the time and could not have been charged.

Personally, while I see JR as intelligent enough to recognize that “out” - I’m not so sure PR would have let that happen…I just don’t think that there will ever be a resolution to this matter because a) BR was of and age he could not be charged for the crime if he did it, b) PR is sadly no longer with us and cannot answer to anything more that comes out, c) JR has moved on and now simply needs to stick with everything “as advertised”, and d) the likelihood of anything new and verifiable coming out now from the police, prosecutors or public is very limited.

FW has the answers. I’d almost guarantee it.

wilkeysau,

Sadly (from what I understand of the US/Colorado legal system) is that if BDI, the parents could have just admitted that instead of circling the wagons because he was under the age of legal implication at the time and could not have been charged.

Yes I agree, but it is possible that the parents were aware of BR's prior behavour as it is alleged he was undergoing some form of therapy, as was JonBenet.

This could be where the neglect or abuse True Bills originate from, suggesting the parents knew that their reputations were on the line and did not want to lose BR as well as JonBenet?

d) the likelihood of anything new and verifiable coming out now from the police, prosecutors or public is very limited.

Once JR passes on it is game over for Lin Wood and his legal scare tactics, his only remaining possible legal client might be BR, but not anything relating to JR or PR.

So further unseen evidence will be released by the BPD, along with the personal recollections of various BPD investigators, likely in some interesting documentaries.

This will lead to a court case requesting the forensic material currently stored in some Colorado Evidentiary Depositary should be made available to the public.

So there is more to come, the case might be sealed, but some of the GJ jurors might be ready to tell us what they heard?

There is currently enough forensic evidence out there in the wild to suggest who it was that initially assaulted JonBenet. So we do not need a smoking gun, just confirmation that some items are bona fide evidence and not deliberate red herrings.

Anything that confirms the parents were involved in the crime-scene staging might see the Ramsey Estate in court litigated by the companies who had settlements awarded against them in favor of the Ramsey's, seeking to recover the settlement amount plus interest.

FW definitely knows whether the case is BDI, he is the only person to be present postmortem in BR's bedroom!

 

[Rain on my Parade]

FW definitely knows whether the case is BDI, he is the only person to be present postmortem in BR's bedroom!

UKGuy,
There is more then meets the eye with FW. In JR interview 1998 with LS:
23 LOU SMIT: What I'd like you to do, John,
24 is just kind of look at the photograph and tell me
25 who's in it. And if you can remember when this was
0057
1 taken and by who.
2 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah. Well, of course, that's
3 myself and John Fernie. I don't know what he's got
4 in his hand there. Must be some kind a bag. Could
5 be that.
6 LOU SMIT: Is that the one where he's also
7 holding a scarf?
8 JOHN RAMSEY: He's holding a scarf. I guess
9 it looks like -- Patsy gave all the men scarves.
10 That might have been the scarf she gave him, in
11 which case it would have been as Santa passed out
12 the gifts.

Do you think this ties into JR’s parting gift he left with JB for eternity?

I have always wondered why FW got so angry during the funeral in Atlanta with JR? I understand he was angry with JR for not cooperating with the BPD. Seems there has to be more to it then this.

FW was also the only other person to enter the wc not once but three separate times. As you point out FW had good vision where as JR had bad eye sight. Yet, FW did not see JB in that room. Which I would think JR couldn’t have seen JB immediately upon opening that door.

Tying further into the White’s… the movie that was played at their Christmas party that night stated “Listen Carefully”. JR stated he and FW were on the floor playing jewelry making with their daughters this night. This seems so very unusual. Grown men playing with their daughters, sitting on the floor @ a Christmas party? Not so abnormal today; as it would have been in 1996.

JR heading straight away to the basement at LA’s command. Why not head upstairs? FW almost seemed to be JR’s shadow that morning.

Then FW takes BR to his house that morning. BR’s bed doesn’t appear to be made very neatly. Not a question or comment from BR about what was going on at his house that morning? When asked, BR if he is curious he is most likely to find out what is going on.

One other question … since the R’s had an apartment on Pearl street why did they not stay there instead of with friends?

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy,
There is more then meets the eye with FW. In JR interview 1998 with LS:
23 LOU SMIT: What I'd like you to do, John,
24 is just kind of look at the photograph and tell me
25 who's in it. And if you can remember when this was
0057
1 taken and by who.
2 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah. Well, of course, that's
3 myself and John Fernie. I don't know what he's got
4 in his hand there. Must be some kind a bag. Could
5 be that.
6 LOU SMIT: Is that the one where he's also
7 holding a scarf?
8 JOHN RAMSEY: He's holding a scarf. I guess
9 it looks like -- Patsy gave all the men scarves.
10 That might have been the scarf she gave him, in
11 which case it would have been as Santa passed out
12 the gifts.

Do you think this ties into JR’s parting gift he left with JB for eternity?

I have always wondered why FW got so angry during the funeral in Atlanta with JR? I understand he was angry with JR for not cooperating with the BPD. Seems there has to be more to it then this.

FW was also the only other person to enter the wc not once but three separate times. As you point out FW had good vision where as JR had bad eye sight. Yet, FW did not see JB in that room. Which I would think JR couldn’t have seen JB immediately upon opening that door.

Tying further into the White’s… the movie that was played at their Christmas party that night stated “Listen Carefully”. JR stated he and FW were on the floor playing jewelry making with their daughters this night. This seems so very unusual. Grown men playing with their daughters, sitting on the floor @ a Christmas party? Not so abnormal today; as it would have been in 1996.

JR heading straight away to the basement at LA’s command. Why not head upstairs? FW almost seemed to be JR’s shadow that morning.

Then FW takes BR to his house that morning. BR’s bed doesn’t appear to be made very neatly. Not a question or comment from BR about what was going on at his house that morning? When asked, BR if he is curious he is most likely to find out what is going on.

One other question … since the R’s had an apartment on Pearl street why did they not stay there instead of with friends?

Rain on my Parade,

Do you think this ties into JR’s parting gift he left with JB for eternity?

It might do. Patsy seemed to like scarves for some reason, whats wrong with gloves?

I have always wondered why FW got so angry during the funeral in Atlanta with JR? I understand he was angry with JR for not cooperating with the BPD. Seems there has to be more to it then this.

Most likely because FW had had time to mull over the case events and realized where things did not add up? there was a definite mismatch between what FW thought he knew and what JR claimed he knew or did not.

I reckon FW's earlier WC visit clinched it for him, this is why he returned back downstairs, i.e. to check out what he could see compared with his earlier visit, i.e. definitely not to look at the wallpaper, check the blanket was white or if there was any wine in the WC!

FW was also the only other person to enter the wc not once but three separate times. As you point out FW had good vision where as JR had bad eye sight. Yet, FW did not see JB in that room. Which I would think JR couldn’t have seen JB immediately upon opening that door.

IMO JR's bad eyesight should prevent him from observing JonBenet as the conditions were similar to that of FW looking in the WC.

Tying further into the White’s… the movie that was played at their Christmas party that night stated “Listen Carefully”. JR stated he and FW were on the floor playing jewelry making with their daughters this night. This seems so very unusual. Grown men playing with their daughters, sitting on the floor @ a Christmas party? Not so abnormal today; as it would have been in 1996.

It will be true otherwise JR will have had to answer a question regarding this topic put to him when interviewed by the BPD.

JR heading straight away to the basement at LA’s command. Why not head upstairs? FW almost seemed to be JR’s shadow that morning.

Yes, with JR as the homeowner FW probably had to play follow my leader?

Then FW takes BR to his house that morning. BR’s bed doesn’t appear to be made very neatly. Not a question or comment from BR about what was going on at his house that morning? When asked, BR if he is curious he is most likely to find out what is going on.

FW made up BR's bed. BR knew fine what was going on, JR had briefed him earlier. FW did talk with BR, but what about has been sealed by the BPD.

One other question … since the R’s had an apartment on Pearl street why did they not stay there instead of with friends?

Most likely because they thought staying with friends would allow them to evade the press. Being neophytes regarding the media they never realized they can find you almost anywhere, e.g. NI pays dollars for info.

A better question is why did JR decide BR was to go with FW?

.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

A better question is why did JR decide BR was to go with FW?

UKGuy,
Probably because he knew FW had guests staying @ his house that could watch over BR. Little did they realize that BPD sent detectives over to question BR before JB was found.

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy,
Probably because he knew FW had guests staying @ his house that could watch over BR. Little did they realize that BPD sent detectives over to question BR before JB was found.

Rain on my Parade,
Yes, how did the investigators know that?

On BR why send him anywhere, what's the big deal?

All part of JR's evolving Get Out Of Dodge City plan ASAP.

IMO BPD engineered the case to suit the circumstances. BPD knew more than JR or PR ever thought.

Alex Hunter finessed the strategy using the GJ to massage the evidence funneled to the jurors, then failed to file the True Bills with the court.

What does that look like?

.

 

[proust20]

The Rs already knew that JB was dead, and they didn't want BR to view the corpse? The 'discovery' of the body, and it eventually winding up under the Christmas tree with PR wailing on top of JB is part of the staging - the denouement. BR would not have been up to performing in this high-pitched melodrama; and maybe he would forget his lines. JR was antsy that BPD didn't find JB as soon as he expected? Flight plans on his mind? Not mentioning the broken window, even though it'd support IDI is quite puzzling. JR has oblique relationships with the evidence. He circles about while avoiding the center. After all, LE only captures the unsuccessful criminals.

FW probably first got suspicious because of the absurd RN. Making BR's bed strikes me as odd. Did he think the boy would return or never come back? Besides, tidiness was not characteristic of the residence. (Had FW been upstairs before?) Then, there's JR trying to arrange a flight to GA immediately; while it was known that they were to fly to MI with the extended family. An untypical error of judgement by JR which FW would have picked up on. Flight equals guilt is a simple concept, which is well known to movie viewers.

A major question is what BR may have told FW in the car. He'd have known that anything that a minor says is inadmissible. Telling BPD would be pointless; however, he could confront JR. How much suspicion of SA was there in the community? Is it possible the Rs feared blackmail?

Wasn't FW angry about the first CNN interview which he thought of as a public relation stunt? PR: "There are two people out there." Please forgive any perceived insensitivity on my part; but it is darkly ironic that PR achieved the notoriety which she coveted. In the end, she will remain an enigma in American history, but at a horrendous cost.

IMO this case will never be solved, ranking it along side Lizzie Borden and the Black Dahlia.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Rain on my Parade,
Yes, how did the investigators know that?

UKGuy,
Probably through communication.
As you said the BPD knew more then the R’s ever thought.

On BR why send him anywhere, what's the big deal?

I always felt they sent him away because of the events that were to unfold. He was sent to his room to pretend being asleep. He was not suppose to say anything. Which he basically never has = hear no evil, speak no evil, see no evil. What he has allowed was JB was awake when they got home.

Alex Hunter finessed the strategy using the GJ to massage the evidence funneled to the jurors, then failed to file the True Bills with the court.

What does that look like?

Looks like Guilt!

 

[proust20]

"What did you find?"/"We're not talking to you." - could mean that the parents weren't going to explain things to BR? If, and only if, BR had nothing to do with the crime, keeping him in the dark would be wise. Of course, BR soon displayed a knowledge of what happened.

But if BR is the culprit, it is usually put down to impulsive anger. Yet, just hours after a brutal, violent murder, he just goes beep-beep? If so, this is more than just a neuroses.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

The Rs already knew that JB was dead, and they didn't want BR to view the corpse? The 'discovery' of the body, and it eventually winding up under the Christmas tree with PR wailing on top of JB is part of the staging - the denouement. BR would not have been up to performing in this high-pitched melodrama; and maybe he would forget his lines. JR was antsy that BPD didn't find JB as soon as he expected? Flight plans on his mind? Not mentioning the broken window, even though it'd support IDI is quite puzzling. JR has oblique relationships with the evidence. He circles about while avoiding the center. After all, LE only captures the unsuccessful criminals.

You hit the nail on the head!

FW probably first got suspicious because of the absurd RN. Making BR's bed strikes me as odd. Did he think the boy would return or never come back? Besides, tidiness was not characteristic of the residence. (Had FW been upstairs before?) Then, there's JR trying to arrange a flight to GA immediately; while it was known that they were to fly to MI with the extended family. An untypical error of judgement by JR which FW would have picked up on. Flight equals guilt is a simple concept, which is well known to movie viewers.

It is very odd that FW makes BR bed. Maybe he was just following the cleanup unit that morning?
Yep, JR definitely missed up trying to fly to Atlanta after finding JB.
JR and PR left JB by herself very easily. Wild horses couldn’t have drug me away; unless of coarse I needed to distance myself from her due to guilt.

A major question is what BR may have told FW in the car. He'd have known that anything that a minor says is inadmissible. Telling BPD would be pointless; however, he could confront JR. How much suspicion of SA was there in the community? Is it possible the Rs feared blackmail?

IMO, BR basically kept his mouth shut as he was told. Also because of guilt. I do not believe there was suspicion of SA in the community. Boulder items are a breed of their own. Yet, something happened on the 23rd via the 911 call. Was it JB, was it FW?

Wasn't FW angry about the first CNN interview which he thought of as a public relation stunt? PR: "There are two people out there." Please forgive any perceived insensitivity on my part; but it is darkly ironic that PR achieved the notoriety which she coveted. In the end, she will remain an enigma in American history, but at a horrendous cost.

Yes, FW was angry about the CNN interview which was obviously a publicity stunt. How did PR have knowledge that there were two people out there that knew who had killed JB? The person that committed the crime and the person that they told? Yes, PR got her notoriety that she did indeed covet; which followed her beyond the grave. Sacrifice is the word that comes to mind.

IMO this case will never be solved, ranking it along side Lizzie Borden and the Black Dahlia.

I completely agree, sadly.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

"What did you find?"/"We're not talking to you." - could mean that the parents weren't going to explain things to BR? If, and only if, BR had nothing to do with the crime, keeping him in the dark would be wise. Of course, BR soon displayed a knowledge of what happened.

But if BR is the culprit, it is usually put down to impulsive anger. Yet, just hours after a brutal, violent murder, he just goes beep-beep? If so, this is more than just a neuroses.

proust20,
BR knew to much, as early as 2 days after the 26th; not to be involved.

 

[Swirlz]

He didn't know anything other than that the body had been found in the basement.

 

[UKGuy]

He didn't know anything other than that the body had been found in the basement.

Swirlz,
Most of the USofA knew this too, it was all over the media.

BR also knew details regarding JonBenet's injuries he should not have known.

i.e.

James Kolar, Foreign Faction, p30, Excerpt

There was one other troubling aspect to Burke’s DSS interview that bears mention, but I need to provide another piece of information to place it into proper perspective.


During my review of police reports, I came across a transcript of an interview conducted with Mary Ann Kaempfer,66 whose son Anthony Pecchio was a classmate and friend of Burke. Anthony and his mother had been invited to accompany the Ramsey family to Atlanta for JonBenét’s funeral services, Anthony to be a playmate for Burke. Kaempfer, not knowing anyone in attendance, assumed the duty of being a nanny to the boys throughout the course of their stay in Georgia.

Boulder Police investigators, interested in a first-person account of what had transpired in Atlanta, interviewed Kaempfer on the evening of her return from Georgia.

She described Burke as being a “very withdrawn little boy”, who didn’t care much for hugs and would “rather you leave him alone.”

While attending the memorial services in Boulder, and while playing with Anthony in Atlanta, Burke was described by Anthony as acting like “he kind of knew what happened and trusted that people would find out.”

Anthony indicated that Burke may have appeared “confused” at times, but was not acting upset and indicated that he was not scared. When asked how he was doing, Burke said he was “fine.” Anthony told investigators that he never saw Burke cry during their stay in Atlanta.

Kaempfer advised that the only time she had seen him display some emotion and sadness was at the cemetery after the graveside services. He had left a group of people and went to the side of JonBenét’s casket, patting it gently.

After that brief display of caring, Burke and Anthony went exploring, skipping through the headstones in the cemetery.

Upon returning from Atlanta on January 2, 1997, Kaempfer spoke to fellow parent Susan Stine and was told about a conversation Stine had overheard taking place between Burke and her son, Doug. This was reported to have taken place on the afternoon following the grief counseling session that had been hosted at JonBenét’s school on the morning of Saturday, December 28, 1996.

Stine appeared to Kaempfer to have been disturbed by the conversation and had listened to Burke and Doug talk about how JonBenét had been strangled. Based upon Kaempfer’s statement, it appeared that Stine had over overheard the boys discussing whether or not manual strangulation had been involved in JonBenét’s death.

Stine described the conversation as being “very impersonal,” and it struck her that the discussion about the details of JonBenét’s death was like the boys were “talking about a TV show.” This discourse between Burke and Doug had taken place no more than two days following JonBenét’s murder and apparently had such an impact upon Stine that she brought it up in conversation with Mary Kaempfer at the first opportunity.

James Kolar, Foreign Faction, p30, Excerpt

I leaned back in my chair and contemplated the scenes I had just witnessed on the DSS video. There were red flags popping up all over the place, and I wondered why, assuming Burke had not been misled himself, he apparently would feel it necessary to mislead Dr. Bernhard about his knowledge of the circumstances surrounding the death of his sister and the possibility that a stabbing was involved.

As I reviewed the video time and again, I found it noteworthy that Burke never once mentioned the fact that he knew that JonBenét had been strangled during this conversation with Dr. Bernhard.

Big red flag here!

Paraphrasing Kolar: Although it was in the public domain that JonBenet had been asphyxiated the method or means was not released.

James Kolar, Foreign Faction, p30, Excerpt

I thought it noteworthy that neither one of these first two newspaper articles mentioned any blow to JonBenét’s head, and I wondered how Burke could have known about that injury.

I would later find through research of the news media coverage that the Boulder Daily Camera would make passing comment about a head injury a few days later, but full details of the depressed skull fracture wouldn’t be revealed to the public by the Boulder County Coroner until July 1997.67

The first public mention of any type of head injury appeared to have been reported by the Daily Camera in an article published on January 6, 1997, and read as follows:

BR told Dr. Bernhard that the killer had whacked JonBenet on the head, he mimicked the downward strikes in front of her.

As the above remarks relate nobody outside of the autopsy knew about the details about the head injury.

Yet BR was telling Dr. Bernhard precisely that!

Then there is BR debating with Doug Stine whether JonBenet had been manually strangled, again the precise details via autopsy had not been released.

PR and JR are on record stating they never discussed the case details with BR.

Bottom line is that 9-year old BR knew details about JonBenet's death that were not fully available until a later date.

.

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy,
Probably through communication.
As you said the BPD knew more then the R’s ever thought.



I always felt they sent him away because of the events that were to unfold. He was sent to his room to pretend being asleep. He was not suppose to say anything. Which he basically never has = hear no evil, speak no evil, see no evil. What he has allowed was JB was awake when they got home.



Looks like Guilt!

Rain on my Parade,

I always felt they sent him away because of the events that were to unfold.

I agree, meaning JR was planning ahead, he knew he was going to find JonBenet, and for some reason he did not want BR present, or he did not want BR to see his father and mother being arrested?

Another thought is if BR caught sight of JonBenet then due to the staged redressing Burke would know his parents were involved as he knew how JonBenet was dressed during the pineapple snack?

This is independent of any BDI consideration!

.

 

[icedtea4me]

<snip>BR told Dr. Bernhard that the killer had whacked JonBenet on the head, he mimicked the downward strikes in front of her.

As the above remarks relate nobody outside of the autopsy knew about the details about the head injury.

Yet BR was telling Dr. Bernhard precisely that!</snip>

Why would it have been absolutely, positively 100% impossible for Burke to have overheard his mom and/or dad say something that night? Were you unaware that voices carry?

Then there is BR debating with Doug Stine whether JonBenet had been manually strangled, again the precise details via autopsy had not been released.

PR and JR are on record stating they never discussed the case details with BR.

Bottom line is that 9-year old BR knew details about JonBenet's death that were not fully available until a later date.

.

Voices carry.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Why would it have been absolutely, positively 100% impossible for Burke to have overheard his mom and/or dad say something that night? Were you unaware that voices carry?



Voices carry.

icedtea4me,
Sure voices do carry. The R’s were IMO lawyered up before the cops even arrived that morning. At the very least that night @ the Fernie’s. I am sure they were advised to keep their mouths shut when in the vicinity of others. Besides PR was still going through her dramatic, drug me up stage. BR knew to much for any child to be privy to.
Ask yourself this: Had you gone through what this family went through, would you want to discuss the events, within distance of others? At the very least within ear distance of your remaining child?

 

[proust20]

BR was removed because he might blurt something out or be contradictory? The parents were still making it up as they went along. They didn't need a third wheel. Although, if it is BDI and the Rs knew that, it'd seem to make sense to keep him close by to avoid slip ups. As they had legal advice ASAP, the Rs would have known that BR could never be charged in CO.