Was Burke involved?

[Linda7NJ]

I don't think it's implausible at all that Burke could have hurt his sister and the parents covered it up. But unless the parents absolutely thought she was dead or were completely evil you get a road block in what happened.



I know not all crimes are logical.



But your suggestion is that Burke hits her over the head and the parents react by killing her to cover it up.



Jonbenet's cause of death was by asphyxiation not by head injury. That means she was breathing when they took her downstairs. Now this turns into a lot of time between step A. Burke hits Jonbenet and translates to Parents trying to figure out what to do and then jumping to



"I know, let's asphyxiate her with a garrote and mutilate her body and hide her in the basement and fake a kidnapping"



How?

IMO they could have believed she was dead. IMO she was very very close to death from the head injury.


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[Tawny]

I don't believe that BR premeditated murder of his sister. Grabbing a flashlight, ball bat, whatever would be intentional infliction and I don't know that there is any evidence the death was intentional.

JMO

You've never experienced or witnessed an accidental head injury by something like a flashlight or bat? I was accidentally whacked in the head by a plastic PVC pipe by my husband while we were horsing around. It doesn't take malice to cause severe injury, especially with something as heavy at the far end as a Maglite flashlight.

 

[Tawny]

IMO they could have believed she was dead. IMO she was very very close to death from the head injury.


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I agree. I believe the staging, to include the asphyxiation, happened after they thought she was already dead.

Now imagine the internal turmoil of finding out from the autopsy that you as the parent unintentionally finished her off. Yikes.

 

[Chewy]

Yes, I do mind as I have too many possible scenarios which I previously documented here.
The ability to search and read threads by an individual poster & topic is available.


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I've spent the last hour reading through the thread and like I said I don't see any step by step argument about what happened. I see jumping from one theory to another.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Chewy, every now and again. I will re-read an entire thread with the mindset of a theory. In this BDI case for example, I'd go through and read it pulling the information that tends to support the theory.

Then, I go through it, read it again some time later, with the mindset he didn't do it. I will pull information that supports that theory.

Then I make a choice as to which I believe. I did that recently on the Oscar trial thread.


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[MyBelle]

From your own post:

"The charges didn't directly accuse the Ramseys of killing their daughter. Instead they alleged that the parents permitted JonBenét to be placed in a dangerous situation that led to her death and it accused them of helping whoever killed the girl"

"PERMITTED JonBenet to be Placed in a dangerous situation that lead to her death"

That means to me... They knew of the jealousy, the ongoing sexual molestation and did nothing to protect their daughter or ensure her safety.

"And helping whoever killed the girl"
They would not help an intruder. They didn't believe they were covering for each other. They would have been indicted for conspiracy to commit or conceal a murder.


All IMO


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Yes, the Ramseys' "Burke did it" ploy worked beautifully. I can understand why Hunter refused to sign it.

JR can still be indicted for conspiracy, murder, sex abuse.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I've spent the last hour reading through the thread and like I said I don't see any step by step argument about what happened. I see jumping from one theory to another.

And there you have it. I have many possible scenarios as to how much and what involvement Burke had.
I don't feel the need to have only ONE step by step. That would be silly and serve no purpose. IMO

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[Chewy]

I agree. I believe the staging, to include the asphyxiation, happened after they thought she was already dead.

Now imagine the internal turmoil of finding out from the autopsy that you as the parent unintentionally finished her off. Yikes.

She wasn't dead. She was strangled to death. So let's consider the logic in this theory. Where was she when she was hit over the head?

Injury Revealed in Autopsy. "Although no head injury was visible when she was first discovered, the autopsy revealed that she received a severe blow to her head shortly before or around the time of the murder.

What makes the parents think this is true? She wasn't dead. There wasn't a visible horrific injury that would deceive the parent into believing she was dead and gone. She was unconscious. So where's that leap where the parent sees an unconscious child and immediately thinks she dead.

So unless the parents immediately come up with the scenario and whisk the child downstairs in an instant, it doesn't add up.

Unless you think this is a fantasy of the Ramsey's they've saved up for a rainy day, how do you explain the steps.

 

[MyBelle]

You've never experienced or witnessed an accidental head injury by something like a flashlight or bat? I was accidentally whacked in the head by a plastic PVC pipe by my husband while we were horsing around. It doesn't take malice to cause severe injury, especially with something as heavy at the far end as a Maglite flashlight.

I don't believe Burke inflicted any head injury based on the circumstances we know. It was late at night and he was nine-years-old. I don't believe he reached for any bat or flashlight and I don't believe his sister was "horsing around" with that kind of energy.

 

[Tawny]

I said it pretty plainly a few posts back, IMO.

Accidental head injury, assumed she was dead (shallow breathing, undetected due to panic and/or assumption), sent BR to bed, staged cover up not realizing the asphyxiation is what caused her ultimate death.

JMO.

 

[Tawny]

Where was she when she was hit over the head?

What makes the parents think this is true?

RSBM

In her bed or in the basement. She was either hit while they were in her bedroom, playing or experimenting or whatever, and then upon discovery, JR moved her... or they were in the basement for whatever reason and that's where it happened.

They aren't medical experts, EMTs, etc. Maybe BR told them what happened. If her breathing is shallow enough, the average person will assume death has occurred. ETA: Combine that with the high emotions of the entire situation and they may not have been thinking very clearly.

 

[Tawny]

I don't believe Burke inflicted any head injury based on the circumstances we know. It was late at night and he was nine-years-old. I don't believe he reached for any bat or flashlight and I don't believe his sister was "horsing around" with that kind of energy.

What circumstances leads you to believe he didn't/couldn't have inflicted the head injury?

 

[MyBelle]

She wasn't dead. She was strangled to death. So let's consider the logic in this theory. Where was she when she was hit over the head?

What makes the parents think this is true?

So unless the parents immediately come up with the scenario and whisk the child downstairs in an instant, it doesn't add up.

Unless you think this is a fantasy of the Ramsey's they've saved up for a rainy day, how do you explain the steps.

Blaming it on Burke is just another fantasy of the Ramseys but it worked beautifully. They pointed at their friends, neighbors, housekeeper, coworkers and when none of that worked, it was Burke's turn to be thrown under the bus.

To even try to blame their 9-year-old son and pretend their cover-up was to protect him shows how little they cared about their daughter or him.

 

[Chewy]

And there you have it. I have many possible scenarios as to how much and what involvement Burke had.
I don't feel the need to have only ONE step by step. That would be silly and serve no purpose. IMO

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It would serve a purpose of showing how you add up the reaction of the parents, the involvement of Burke and then how they came up with the cover up.

The reason people don't put it down step by step is that when you do it just doesn't make any sense.


I'll try


Burke is jealous of Jonbenet and resentful. She won awards over the holiday and she's been getting all sorts of attention. She's also annoying him. She's been doing things lately like touching his toys and he has a boiling rage and hatred towards her. They come back tired and cranky from the Christmas party and mom and dad are finishing up downstairs. They all eat a bit of pineapple and Jonbenet greedily snatches the last piece out of the bowl and gives a smug grin to Burke and enrages him further.

They go upstairs and he decides to get even when the parents go to sleep. No Christmas for Jonbenet according to Burke. He sneaks into her room when she's asleep and holds her at knife point with a knife from the kitchen. But she gets scared and pees the bed. This makes him mad so he tells her to change her clothes and goes to the drawer and pulls out the wrong size underwear. Then he takes her downstairs into the basement and .....

ok meanwhile no noise nothing waking up parents but hey, they are deep sleepers etc.....

so he's in the basement and he grabs the flashlight and bashes her over the head cause she starts whining. He's angry now. He fashions the garrote and strangles her and mutilates the body.

Now he's done. He goes upstairs to bed.


So mom and dad wake up as he's coming up the stairs. He's busted. They ask him what happened and what's going on. They sit down and realize he's killed her and there's no hope. They swear him to secrecy and send him to his room. Then they sit down and write the ransom note and John decides this, let's call everyone into the house.

John's motive for this is that he and Patsy have been sexually molesting the kids for years and he knows he's going to be looked at as a suspect. After all he's the one who sexualized Burke this way. They can't even let this be looked at as an inside job because John would take the fall.


The ransom note distracts the cops so they think she's been abducted. Cops don't search the house when there's a ransom note as we all know. We'll call everyone we know into the house to get them to contaminate the crime scene...............

and evil John's plan works perfectly how clever of him to know the police wouldn't properly contain the scene..........

He tells Patsy that she's got to make sure she and John both throw themselves on the body as soon as she's found (what a stroke of luck that he's the one to actually find her) and that they've got to make sure they ruin the investigation.

All goes according to plan.

It worked. Everyone knows that something is amiss but noone can prove it.

And this is a perfect crime except for two things.

Burke never broke his lie to the cops
His DNA was not all over Jonbenets body.


Oh.....right..............

so let's hear another version of how this went down please? Start to finish? I'm asking because I'm not seeing a scenario that makes any sense. If anyone has one I'd love to hear it.

 

[Tawny]

Holds her at knifepoint?

 

[MyBelle]

What circumstances leads you to believe he didn't/couldn't have inflicted the head injury?

The time of night and the ages of the children. Plus, if it had been an accidental head injury inflicted by Burke, one of the parents would have called 911.

It was impossible to tell the severity of the head injury just by looking at her head. Any normal adult would react by calling 911.

 

[Chewy]

RSBM

In her bed or in the basement. She was either hit while they were in her bedroom, playing or experimenting or whatever, and then upon discovery, JR moved her... or they were in the basement for whatever reason and that's where it happened.

They aren't medical experts, EMTs, etc. Maybe BR told them what happened. If her breathing is shallow enough, the average person will assume death has occurred. ETA: Combine that with the high emotions of the entire situation and they may not have been thinking very clearly.

Yet they are thinking clearly enough to come up with a massive cover up?

 

[Tawny]

If you think that coverup and ransom note were "thinking clearly" then we are definitely not on the same page.

 

[Chewy]

Holds her at knifepoint?

Well he must have done something to get her downstairs? There was no evidence showing she was dragged downstairs unconscious. So he grabs a kitchen knife.

 

[Chewy]

If you think that coverup and ransom note were "thinking clearly" then we are definitely not on the same page.

It took me two minutes to type out a theory. How about you do the same?

Because like I said when you lay it out, you're going to see where it just doesn't match the evidence or stand up to scrutiny.