Was Burke involved?

[MyBelle]

And you don't think the Ramseys were smart enough to know that they might as well call the police? Like the hospital wasn't going to report it?

The hospital would not automatically report the head injury to police. In the case of Max Shacknai, the hospital only reported after doctors determined his head injuries did not fit with the description of the accident. I think this is true in almost all cases. Children are in accidents every day. The sheer volume would make it impossible for police to open an investigation into each and every one that shows up at the ER.

 

[MyBelle]

I wouldn't have expected them to call the police! but a trip to the ER with the explanation that their 9 year old child caused this through some horrible accident. And no matter how you look at it, an accident would have been easier to stage, and made more sense, than all of this other stuff. moo

Absolutely true. My son had a tether ball pole fall on his head when he was nine. AT SCHOOL on the playground. My son let out a blood-curdling scream that I heard and I was inside the school. Cops were not called by the hospital. It truly was an accident by another kid who was clumsy.

 

[SapphireSteel]

It was ME who said BDI is not logical.

I dont think i used the word "impossible" but parts of this crime ARE impossible for a child to execute.

I guess I'm struggling to understand BDI, especially when some think he's only responsible for part a or part b.

There is zero evidence circumstantial or otherwise.

BDI as far as I understand, still relies on the parents murdering the injured JB instead of calling 911.

This IS impossible imo.

A lifetime spent nurturing a baby only to rape and murder that baby when an "accident" occurs?

Come on!!!!!!!!

There would be no hospitals if all anyone did was euthanise the injured at home!

 

[SapphireSteel]

The hospital would not automatically report the head injury to police. In the case of Max Shacknai, the hospital only reported after doctors determined his head injuries did not fit with the description of the accident. I think this is true in almost all cases. Children are in accidents every day. The sheer volume would make it impossible for police to open an investigation into each and every one that shows up at the ER.

My son broke his arm age 2.

The hospital barely raised an eyebrow. The break was a clean snap in two which is not the sort of injury you get with abuse.

The orthopedic clinic was FULL of boys.

 

[SapphireSteel]

What was the Ramseys greatest fear?

Having B put in a juvenile home, or JB dying?

BDI presupposes that B being punished was a far greater fear than JB dying in agony.

In what universe does this make sense?

 

[Mama2JML]

What was the Ramseys greatest fear?

Having B put in a juvenile home, or JB dying?

BDI presupposes that B being punished was a far greater fear than JB dying in agony.

In what universe does this make sense?

Great questions...

 

[Chewy]

It was ME who said BDI is not logical.

I dont think i used the word "impossible" but parts of this crime ARE impossible for a child to execute.

I guess I'm struggling to understand BDI, especially when some think he's only responsible for part a or part b.

There is zero evidence circumstantial or otherwise.

BDI as far as I understand, still relies on the parents murdering the injured JB instead of calling 911.

This IS impossible imo.

A lifetime spent nurturing a baby only to rape and murder that baby when an "accident" occurs?

Come on!!!!!!!!

There would be no hospitals if all anyone did was euthanise the injured at home!

Not to mention this is supposed to have been a shocking unexpected event with no premeditation on the part of the parents. They both immediately fell into a lockstep of evil without any doubt they'd succeed.

 

[MyBelle]

It was ME who said BDI is not logical.

I dont think i used the word "impossible" but parts of this crime ARE impossible for a child to execute.

I guess I'm struggling to understand BDI, especially when some think he's only responsible for part a or part b.

There is zero evidence circumstantial or otherwise.

BDI as far as I understand, still relies on the parents murdering the injured JB instead of calling 911.

This IS impossible imo.

A lifetime spent nurturing a baby only to rape and murder that baby when an "accident" occurs?

Come on!!!!!!!!

There would be no hospitals if all anyone did was euthanise the injured at home!

I agree. It's a convoluted theory that makes no sense other than fit with the "anybody but the Ramseys" goal.

I just did a little research on the comment that JR's phone records weren't available. That's straight from Steve Thomas who said Trip DeMuth refused to sign a subpoena for the long distance phone records. Trip DeMuth later went to work for Ramsey's attorneys. And I'm pretty sure his daddy, Larry DeMuth was legal counsel for U S WEST. Those long distance records would have shown any phone calls made by Ramsey to their attorney or anybody else.

I think it is entirely possible the two-hour window John Ramsey mysteriously left his house was go to his office to call his attorney and the strategy was hatched.

 

[MyBelle]

Not to mention this is supposed to have been a shocking unexpected event with no premeditation on the part of the parents. They both immediately fell into a lockstep of evil without any doubt they'd succeed.

What I can believe that the first thing a CEO would do is call his attorney and tell him his son just killed his sister so what do I do? How old is the son? Would be a logical question and "Contaminate the crime scene and make it look like an intruder" would be the answer.

JMO

 

[Chewy]

You think a lawyer would advise his client to commit a felony and implicate his wife in felony to cover up an accident committed by a 9 year old boy?


Really?

 

[SapphireSteel]

You think a lawyer would advise his client to commit a felony and implicate his wife in felony to cover up an accident committed by a 9 year old boy?


Really?

Does the lawyerly advice extend to finishing JB off?

Most of us are parents here.

You find one child dying and the other watching with a guilty expression.

Do you -

a. immediately call 911
b. immediately call your lawyer
c. immediately euthanise the injured child and stage a Foreign Faction invasion?

Clue - it should be a no-brainer.

 

[Linda7NJ]

When you have to add "Maybe" it's because it is a weak argument. I suppose, based on your own experience, you can view that level of sexual depravity and moral corruption as something that could apply to the whole family but I think it is really pushing credibility to suggest the mother, father and nine year old boy were all equally sick and evil to the point that Burke could fool law enforcement in ways that Ted Bundy couldn't

He was questioned as a witness. He claimed to be asleep.

That doesn't exactly require a criminal mastermind.

I add maybe because, like I said, I gave more than ONE.

All that's needed is him doing the initial head bash and other adults to attempt to conceal and a long ongoing set if lies and deception. The exact order and details IMO are irrelevant, unable to be proven and silly to argue about.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[SapphireSteel]

He was questioned as a witness. He claimed to be asleep.

That doesn't exactly require a criminal mastermind.

I add maybe because, like I said, I gave more than ONE.

All that's needed is him doing the initial head bash and other adults to attempt to conceal and a long ongoing set if lies and deception. The exact order and details IMO are irrelevant, unable to be proven and silly to argue about.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They are not "irrelevant". A lot of the details can be proven, we know B could not have physically moved JB for example.

They show that BDI is illogical at best, and impossible in most people's opinions INCLUDING the experts.

 

[Chewy]

Claiming to be asleep is probably the easiest alibi to pick apart under interrogation and interviews, a simple slip mentioning something would undo it. [modsnip]


Also details ARE important and how crimes are solved in real life.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Why would the children be looking for wrapped gifts in the basement? They had already opened their gifts. It doesn't make sense to me that Patsy would immediately know the sexual assault took place and that Burke was the perp rather than John unless it is also true that Patsy was aware of the on-going sexual assault. Yet she did nothing about the ongoing sexual assault by a 9-year-old? She ignored it? I think it is more likely Patsy knew that her husband was the culprit. Patsy could control her son, she couldn't control her husband.

You're missing the fact there were partially opened gifts in the basement.

In my scenario Burke didn't re-dress her. Of course Patsy knew, dictionary dog eared and pointed to incest, the housekeeper had caught them playing "doctor games" no less than three times in the months before Christmas and reported to her each time. Do you believe that was the only time they were playing doctor? I don't. Maybe whatever the Ramsey's were doing about it, they believed it was enough.
If you read the indictment with that in mind, it makes sense.

All IMO


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MyBelle]

You think a lawyer would advise his client to commit a felony and implicate his wife in felony to cover up an accident committed by a 9 year old boy?


Really?

Yep. No way to prove the call was made if there are no phone records.

The lawyers knew the 9-year-old couldn't be charged with a crime which is why they threw that kid under the bus intentionally.

It is simply outrageous that DeMuth refused to obtain a search warrant for those phone records. Everybody should be outraged over that one.

 

[MyBelle]

You're missing the fact there were partially opened gifts in the basement.

In my scenario Burke didn't re-dress her. Of course Patsy knew, dictionary dog eared and pointed to incest, the housekeeper had caught them playing "doctor games" no less than three times in the months before Christmas and reported to her each time. Do you believe that was the only time they were playing doctor? I don't. Maybe whatever the Ramsey's were doing about it, they believed it was enough.
If you read the indictment with that in mind, it makes sense.

All IMO


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The partially opened gifts were part of the staging to explain why either child was in the basement.

I certainly do not believe late at night either of those children was in the basement playing doctor. I also do not believe Patsy opened a dictionary to incest because she didn't know what it meant. I think it was just more staging to implicate her son.

 

[SapphireSteel]

If Burke was a vicious raping psychopath at 9, chances are he would be even worse now he's a grown adult.

From all appearances he has never repeated the violence of that night, before or since.

He's functional, has an education and a career and a girlfriend and a private life which seems to be going well despite his traumatic childhood.

Very often, time is the best judge. This case is an excellent example, general agreement is that the Ramseys were not able to be exonerated by Lacy. Emotion has died, common sense replaces it, and people slowly start to agree that if it looks like a snake, it probably isn't a kitten.

I suggest the adult Burke is PROOF that he wasn't a sociopathic sadist at age 9.

This crime looks like an adult in that house abused JB repeatedly, went too far on Christmas night, then tried to cover it up, forcing their likewise abusing spouse into helping.

Perhaps that's because, it's what happened?

 

[Chewy]

Really chewy?

Tell me exactly how Scott Peterson killed his pregnant wife, Lacy.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

He arranged a boat, spent weeks preparing, made cement anchors, took her out to sea and dumped her overboard.

We don't know precisely how he killed her because of the condition of the body which different in Jonbenets case.

We line up the evidence, motive and timeline

 

[Chewy]

Yep. No way to prove the call was made if there are no phone records.

The lawyers knew the 9-year-old couldn't be charged with a crime which is why they threw that kid under the bus intentionally.

It is simply outrageous that DeMuth refused to obtain a search warrant for those phone records. Everybody should be outraged over that one.

Do you realize how ridiculous this statement is? A lawyer is going to tell a client to commit a felony and risk implicating himself and his wife in murder, to cover for a crime they knew Burke wouldn't be charged with anyway????

It has nothing to do with proving the call, those conversations are privileged anyway