Was Burke involved?

Was Burke involved in JB's death?

  • Burke was involved in the death of JBR

    Votes: 377 59.6%
  • Burke was totally uninvolved in her death

    Votes: 256 40.4%

  • Total voters
    633
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  • #341
Patsy told LE that JB wouldn't have been able to reach the pineapple bowl in the fridge. JB's prints were NOT on the bowl. Only Patsy's and BR's.
The Rs had a huge walk-in fridge. The stainless-steel door can be seen in crime scene photos of the kitchen. The door looks like a standard-sized fridge door, but when opened, it was a huge walk-in fridge (similar to a walk-in closet) that was built in to the wall. There were shelves along the two sides like closet shelves, not like fridge shelves in your own fridge. These went up much higher than a regular fridge.
John is trying to account for his fresh fingerprints being on the walk-in fridge in their book,so it makes you wonder what all they did consider immediately after JB passed,or was in the process of doing so.
 
  • #342
John is trying to account for his fresh fingerprints being on the walk-in fridge in their book,so it makes you wonder what all they did consider immediately after JB passed,or was in the process of doing so.

There are definitely some things that I feel both parents attempted to "account" for- Patsy's fibers were "accounted" for by her throwing herself on the body (or so she thought- her fibers were found in 2 places that never made it out of the basement- the tape and paint tote- and the garrote knot that contained Patsy's fibers was at the back of JB's neck, whereas she was face up on the carpet PLUS being covered by an afghan. No way Patsy's fibers got where they were found from her throwing herself on the body).
JR carried her upstairs, and he also attempted to say that he looked under her bed wearing only his underwear.
But as far as things like the fridge- that is getting into a fuzzy area. This was his house- and it would not be unexpected to find his prints on the fridge door. Patsy's either. Her prints on the bowl of pineapple are not suspicious in and of itself. What us suspicious is her attempt to distance herself from the pineapple bowl- by first trying to say it wasn't hers, then by saying she didn't know where the pineapple found in JB's stomach came from.
 
  • #343
There are definitely some things that I feel both parents attempted to "account" for- Patsy's fibers were "accounted" for by her throwing herself on the body (or so she thought- her fibers were found in 2 places that never made it out of the basement- the tape and paint tote- and the garrote knot that contained Patsy's fibers was at the back of JB's neck, whereas she was face up on the carpet PLUS being covered by an afghan. No way Patsy's fibers got where they were found from her throwing herself on the body).
JR carried her upstairs, and he also attempted to say that he looked under her bed wearing only his underwear.
But as far as things like the fridge- that is getting into a fuzzy area. This was his house- and it would not be unexpected to find his prints on the fridge door. Patsy's either. Her prints on the bowl of pineapple are not suspicious in and of itself. What us suspicious is her attempt to distance herself from the pineapple bowl- by first trying to say it wasn't hers, then by saying she didn't know where the pineapple found in JB's stomach came from.
yes,weird isn't it,like an intruder would really bring in a bowl and pineapple..and Patsy could have just said her prints got on it when she got it out.
and John even bothering to put that in DOI..the underwear and fridge...apparently there may have been more evidence in those places than has been revealed.I recall reading there were 'spots' found on JB's carpet,with no explanation as to what they were.
 
  • #344
yes,weird isn't it,like an intruder would really bring in a bowl and pineapple..and Patsy could have just said her prints got on it when she got it out.
and John even bothering to put that in DOI..the underwear and fridge...apparently there may have been more evidence in those places than has been revealed.I recall reading there were 'spots' found on JB's carpet,with no explanation as to what they were.

JMO8778,

Interesting points. There will be more evidence, and the R's know this, thats probably why they returned the size-12's. They know stuff we do not. e.g. where the primary crime-scene is located and I'll bet a cent to a dollar its this that the R's are talking around and attempting to distance themselves from?



.
 
  • #345
JMO8778,

Interesting points. There will be more evidence, and the R's know this, thats probably why they returned the size-12's. They know stuff we do not. e.g. where the primary crime-scene is located and I'll bet a cent to a dollar its this that the R's are talking around and attempting to distance themselves from?



.
yes and anyone else (short of OJ and Casey Anthony) would have been charged with withholding evidence,but not the R's.it was 'ohhhh.. lookey what WE found!!' for them.
 
  • #346
yes and anyone else (short of OJ and Casey Anthony) would have been charged with withholding evidence,but not the R's.it was 'ohhhh.. lookey what WE found!!' for them.

JMO8778,
Exactly. Also allowing PP to indulge herself with a supermarket sweep through the house removing evicence is a complete setup.

That screams conspiracy to me. This was probably when the underwear was removed.



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  • #347
JMO8778,
Exactly. Also allowing PP to indulge herself with a supermarket sweep through the house removing evicence is a complete setup.

That screams conspiracy to me. This was probably when the underwear was removed.



.

Pretty hard to argue at this point!
 
  • #348
yes,weird isn't it,like an intruder would really bring in a bowl and pineapple..and Patsy could have just said her prints got on it when she got it out.
and John even bothering to put that in DOI..the underwear and fridge...apparently there may have been more evidence in those places than has been revealed.I recall reading there were 'spots' found on JB's carpet,with no explanation as to what they were.

There were some urine stains on the carpet, weren't there? Sections were cut away and taken into evidence. The sheets, though not wet, did also have urine stains on them, but because housekeeper LHP last changed her sheets on the 23rd (the day of the R party, and the last day she was in the house) there is a possibility that JB wet her bed on the night of the 23rd after the party, or on Christmas Eve. LHP told LE that the sheets in the crime scene photos she was shown were not the ones she put on the bed on the 23rd. LHP always washed the white blanket (the one JB was found wrapped in) also, but because it did not fit in the smaller washer/dryer outside JB's room, the white blanket was always laundered in the basement washer/dryer.
I believe that Patsy herself put the sheets on JB's bed either the 24th or Christmas morning, but because LHP had put the blanket in the basement dryer, Patsy was too busy to got down to the basement to get it. Instead, she made the bed up without the blanket. In the crime photos, the foot end of the bed is clearly still made neatly (though there are clothes strewn about it), and there is clearly NO blanket on the bed. LE mentioned this specific thing during an interview with Patsy, finally getting her to admit that the bed did appear to not have a blanket under the spread, nor did it appear that someone could have pulled a blanket off that bed without mussing the foot section of the spread.
Like so much that LE dropped the ball on in the interviews, they dance all around the topic, but never ask the REAL questions. WHY was there no blanket on bed. Isn't the blanket missing because it was never put back ON the bed after being last laundered on the 23rd by LHP? Who besides you (Patsy) and LHP would have even known it was in the basement dryer?
These questions all went unasked. And any other important questions all met the same response "And we understand you will not permit your client to answer that question".
 
  • #349
There were some urine stains on the carpet, weren't there? Sections were cut away and taken into evidence. The sheets, though not wet, did also have urine stains on them, but because housekeeper LHP last changed her sheets on the 23rd (the day of the R party, and the last day she was in the house) there is a possibility that JB wet her bed on the night of the 23rd after the party, or on Christmas Eve. LHP told LE that the sheets in the crime scene photos she was shown were not the ones she put on the bed on the 23rd. LHP always washed the white blanket (the one JB was found wrapped in) also, but because it did not fit in the smaller washer/dryer outside JB's room, the white blanket was always laundered in the basement washer/dryer.
I believe that Patsy herself put the sheets on JB's bed either the 24th or Christmas morning, but because LHP had put the blanket in the basement dryer, Patsy was too busy to got down to the basement to get it. Instead, she made the bed up without the blanket. In the crime photos, the foot end of the bed is clearly still made neatly (though there are clothes strewn about it), and there is clearly NO blanket on the bed. LE mentioned this specific thing during an interview with Patsy, finally getting her to admit that the bed did appear to not have a blanket under the spread, nor did it appear that someone could have pulled a blanket off that bed without mussing the foot section of the spread.
Like so much that LE dropped the ball on in the interviews, they dance all around the topic, but never ask the REAL questions. WHY was there no blanket on bed. Isn't the blanket missing because it was never put back ON the bed after being last laundered on the 23rd by LHP? Who besides you (Patsy) and LHP would have even known it was in the basement dryer?
These questions all went unasked. And any other important questions all met the same response "And we understand you will not permit your client to answer that question".

DeeDee249,
the white blanket was always laundered in the basement washer/dryer.
Now thats interesting because someone deliberately went upstairs to fetch the longjohns, but left out a clean pair of size-6's?

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  • #350
DeeDee249,

Now thats interesting because someone deliberately went upstairs to fetch the longjohns, but left out a clean pair of size-6's?

.

Why would they have to go upstairs to grab long johns?
 
  • #351
Why would they have to go upstairs to grab long johns?

vlpate,
Maybe they dont have to. From memory I think Patsy stated she retrieved the longjohns from upstairs was it JonBenet's bathroom drawer?

Where do you think they originated?



.
 
  • #352
DeeDee249,

Now thats interesting because someone deliberately went upstairs to fetch the longjohns, but left out a clean pair of size-6's?

.

We don't know that they had to go upstairs to get them just for the staging. You see, I believe, that like all people who weave a web of lies to cover up something, they always weave some elements of truth in as well. The R are lying (MOO) about a great many things that happened that night, but that doesn't mean they are lying about everything. This is how I see it:
I believe the Rs left the White's party just as they said, and stopped to deliver some gifts on the way home (truth). I believe JB may have fallen asleep in the car, just as many kids do. (truth). BUT I believe she woke up and walked into the house just as her brother said she did, but her parents deny this (their first lie). I believe Patsy helped JB get ready for bed. There us a pink garment lying near the head of JB'd bed- I believe this is the pink pajama TOP she wore that morning. I believe JB was sleepy/cranky and, just as many mothers will do at bedtime, Patsy decided to let her sleep in the white top she wore that day, as it was a cotton sweatshirt-type fabric. (truth). I believe Patsy really couldn't find the pink pajama bottoms, they seem to not have been with the top. (truth) WHERE they were and why may be the second lie. I believe Patsy did pull a pair of longjohns from JB's drawer, because these are just as good for sleeping as pajamas. (truth). So we have JB dressed by Patsy in the longjohns, which were pulled on over whatever underwear she wore to the White's (I believe these were size 6 Wednesday panties) leaving her top in place. So far this is all as Patsy said it was, with the above 2 exceptions.
From this point on, the R are lying about everything. I believe JB, dressed in her longjohns and white top, went to the kitchen for her pineapple snack, within about a half-hour of arriving home. (10-ish). Patsy got the bowl from the fridge, both Rs admitted JB would not have been able to reach it where it was kept- they had a huge walk-in fridge, with shelves that were high.
BR may or may not have actually been there with her while she ate it- the tea glass with his prints are meaningless as proof he was there at that table- prints can't be dated, it only shows he touched the bowl and glass at some point. I do believe he was there, though, and there is no way to know whether he was ever asked this question by LE.
By now we are getting into the horrific events of the night, culminating in JB's death about 2 hours later. The child's scream heard by the neighbor around midnight was JB, IMO, but there are many who feel it was Patsy's screaming, which is very possible. The scream coincided with another neighbor seeing "strange, moving lights" (their words) in the kitchen window, which I believe was one of the Rs walking around with the flashlight. From there, it can only be conjecture where the head bash happened (and why), but I believe the strangulation probably happened in the basement, the cord AND paintbrush being in Patsy's art tote. This type of thin cord was mentioned here long ago as possibly a commonly-used artist's tool to fashion a lightweight sling to carry a rolled-up painting. I went to art school- I have made that exact type of sling. You don't want to fold an paining. Watercolors don't get stretched on a frame the way canvas does, and even dried oil on canvas can be taken from the stretcher and rolled up for storage or for easy transport. Patsy liked to give her paintings as gifts. In my mind, I can walk through the whole crime in various ways. The only thing that changes is the face of the killers. It breaks my heart to think the last face JB saw was one of her own family.
 
  • #353
vlpate,
Maybe they dont have to. From memory I think Patsy stated she retrieved the longjohns from upstairs was it JonBenet's bathroom drawer?

Where do you think they originated?



.

I tend to think Patsy completely changed JonBenet's clothes. Maybe she had put her pajamas on, the pants that match or the nightgown....something happened - bedwetting or hair coloring gone wrong. Patsy has a fit, clothing is stained, . Something that's always stuck in my head - when Patsy was being interviewed by Thomas 4/2007, she mentioned TWICE that she colored her hair on the 25th or the 26th - and I tend to think she had a reason for it. Maybe something she felt they had in evidence had to do with hair coloring. JonBenet's hair was parted the way you would part hair to color it when she was found. Maybe if KK reads this, she can refresh my memory about all the posts that were done concerning the ingredients in hair color - wish I could recall why it was important at the time.

Anyway - after whatever happened, Patsy puts the same shirt back on jonbenet and the longjohns because the bottoms were either soaked with urine, or they had hair color on them. Patsy had to put the shirt back on JBR so she could stick to the story JonBenet never woke that night. Why did Patsy continue to say she was the one to put the longjohns on JonBenet? So they wouldn't look for the pj bottoms she was really wearing that night - no one even questions it.

At some point Patsy, thinking JonBenet is dead, carries her downstairs and starts grabbing whatever is handy for the cover-up...the paint brush, some rope, a piece of duct tape. She grabs the blanket out of the dryer to wrap her in, not noticing the gown attached. She finishes all the staging and then writes the ransom note....and act II begins.

Rough, but bottom line is, don't think JBR went to bed in the shirt she wore to the Whites.
 
  • #354
We don't know that they had to go upstairs to get them just for the staging. You see, I believe, that like all people who weave a web of lies to cover up something, they always weave some elements of truth in as well. The R are lying (MOO) about a great many things that happened that night, but that doesn't mean they are lying about everything. This is how I see it:
I believe the Rs left the White's party just as they said, and stopped to deliver some gifts on the way home (truth). I believe JB may have fallen asleep in the car, just as many kids do. (truth). BUT I believe she woke up and walked into the house just as her brother said she did, but her parents deny this (their first lie). I believe Patsy helped JB get ready for bed. There us a pink garment lying near the head of JB'd bed- I believe this is the pink pajama TOP she wore that morning. I believe JB was sleepy/cranky and, just as many mothers will do at bedtime, Patsy decided to let her sleep in the white top she wore that day, as it was a cotton sweatshirt-type fabric. (truth). I believe Patsy really couldn't find the pink pajama bottoms, they seem to not have been with the top. (truth) WHERE they were and why may be the second lie. I believe Patsy did pull a pair of longjohns from JB's drawer, because these are just as good for sleeping as pajamas. (truth). So we have JB dressed by Patsy in the longjohns, which were pulled on over whatever underwear she wore to the White's (I believe these were size 6 Wednesday panties) leaving her top in place. So far this is all as Patsy said it was, with the above 2 exceptions.
From this point on, the R are lying about everything. I believe JB, dressed in her longjohns and white top, went to the kitchen for her pineapple snack, within about a half-hour of arriving home. (10-ish). Patsy got the bowl from the fridge, both Rs admitted JB would not have been able to reach it where it was kept- they had a huge walk-in fridge, with shelves that were high.
BR may or may not have actually been there with her while she ate it- the tea glass with his prints are meaningless as proof he was there at that table- prints can't be dated, it only shows he touched the bowl and glass at some point. I do believe he was there, though, and there is no way to know whether he was ever asked this question by LE.
By now we are getting into the horrific events of the night, culminating in JB's death about 2 hours later. The child's scream heard by the neighbor around midnight was JB, IMO, but there are many who feel it was Patsy's screaming, which is very possible. The scream coincided with another neighbor seeing "strange, moving lights" (their words) in the kitchen window, which I believe was one of the Rs walking around with the flashlight. From there, it can only be conjecture where the head bash happened (and why), but I believe the strangulation probably happened in the basement, the cord AND paintbrush being in Patsy's art tote. This type of thin cord was mentioned here long ago as possibly a commonly-used artist's tool to fashion a lightweight sling to carry a rolled-up painting. I went to art school- I have made that exact type of sling. You don't want to fold an paining. Watercolors don't get stretched on a frame the way canvas does, and even dried oil on canvas can be taken from the stretcher and rolled up for storage or for easy transport. Patsy liked to give her paintings as gifts. In my mind, I can walk through the whole crime in various ways. The only thing that changes is the face of the killers. It breaks my heart to think the last face JB saw was one of her own family.

Very interesting about the sling - I think it was discussed a long time ago, but I don't recall ever seeing a photo of said sling...could you find one? I agree - I don't think everything they said was a lie....
 
  • #355
We don't know that they had to go upstairs to get them just for the staging. You see, I believe, that like all people who weave a web of lies to cover up something, they always weave some elements of truth in as well. The R are lying (MOO) about a great many things that happened that night, but that doesn't mean they are lying about everything. This is how I see it:
I believe the Rs left the White's party just as they said, and stopped to deliver some gifts on the way home (truth). I believe JB may have fallen asleep in the car, just as many kids do. (truth). BUT I believe she woke up and walked into the house just as her brother said she did, but her parents deny this (their first lie). I believe Patsy helped JB get ready for bed. There us a pink garment lying near the head of JB'd bed- I believe this is the pink pajama TOP she wore that morning. I believe JB was sleepy/cranky and, just as many mothers will do at bedtime, Patsy decided to let her sleep in the white top she wore that day, as it was a cotton sweatshirt-type fabric. (truth). I believe Patsy really couldn't find the pink pajama bottoms, they seem to not have been with the top. (truth) WHERE they were and why may be the second lie. I believe Patsy did pull a pair of longjohns from JB's drawer, because these are just as good for sleeping as pajamas. (truth). So we have JB dressed by Patsy in the longjohns, which were pulled on over whatever underwear she wore to the White's (I believe these were size 6 Wednesday panties) leaving her top in place. So far this is all as Patsy said it was, with the above 2 exceptions.
From this point on, the R are lying about everything. I believe JB, dressed in her longjohns and white top, went to the kitchen for her pineapple snack, within about a half-hour of arriving home. (10-ish). Patsy got the bowl from the fridge, both Rs admitted JB would not have been able to reach it where it was kept- they had a huge walk-in fridge, with shelves that were high.
BR may or may not have actually been there with her while she ate it- the tea glass with his prints are meaningless as proof he was there at that table- prints can't be dated, it only shows he touched the bowl and glass at some point. I do believe he was there, though, and there is no way to know whether he was ever asked this question by LE.
By now we are getting into the horrific events of the night, culminating in JB's death about 2 hours later. The child's scream heard by the neighbor around midnight was JB, IMO, but there are many who feel it was Patsy's screaming, which is very possible. The scream coincided with another neighbor seeing "strange, moving lights" (their words) in the kitchen window, which I believe was one of the Rs walking around with the flashlight. From there, it can only be conjecture where the head bash happened (and why), but I believe the strangulation probably happened in the basement, the cord AND paintbrush being in Patsy's art tote. This type of thin cord was mentioned here long ago as possibly a commonly-used artist's tool to fashion a lightweight sling to carry a rolled-up painting. I went to art school- I have made that exact type of sling. You don't want to fold an paining. Watercolors don't get stretched on a frame the way canvas does, and even dried oil on canvas can be taken from the stretcher and rolled up for storage or for easy transport. Patsy liked to give her paintings as gifts. In my mind, I can walk through the whole crime in various ways. The only thing that changes is the face of the killers. It breaks my heart to think the last face JB saw was one of her own family.

DeeDee249,
We don't know that they had to go upstairs to get them just for the staging.
I agree, but why bother with longjohns, why not leave her in her underwear?

Of course the R's have to weave some truth and falsehood together, precisely to match the staging. It's the ransom note that determines JonBenet is not located in her bed.

How do we know that Patsy is not lying through her teeth about the pink pajamas? Maybe JonBenet did wear them that night along with her size-6 underwear, that is the simplest assumption to make.

BPD have never mentioned the pink pajama bottoms, who has them?

Why would Patsy dress a sleepy JonBenet for bed, then allow her up for a pineapple snack, knowing full well, the pineapple may cause her to wet the bed?

I'm not so sure that JonBenet ever saw her bed anyway. She may still be wearing her white gap top, precisely because she never dressed for bed, the rest is staging.

When killed I reckon JonBenet was naked from the waist down e.g. no underwear, no longjohns.

For whatever reason all the evidence suggests she was redressed from the torso down in the basement. Not after she arrived home.

If you accept that John redressed JonBenet in those size-12's, what was she wearing prior to John redressing her, the old size-6's?

Why does the redressing matter if it was a nasty pedophile abductor who removed JonBenet from her bed?

They could have dressed JonBenet in the pink top and left her naked from the torso down, wrapped her in the blanket and blamed it all on the abductor. Saying we put JonBenet to be in pink pajamas?

The longjohns are redundant at the crime-scene you also have a pink barbie nightgown this would not raise an eyebrow if JonBenet had been discovered deceased wearing it.

The ransom note determines an abduction scenario this then mandates an explanation as to why JonBenet was wearing her White Gap Top when discovered dead.

In your version of events someone removed JonBenet's longjohns e.g. allegedly a Ramsey, and her size-6 underwear, sexually assaulted her then redressed again in what?

If I were Patsy and JonBenet got up for a pineapple snack, a condition might be, put your nightdress or pink top on?



.
 
  • #356
DeeDee249,

I agree, but why bother with longjohns, why not leave her in her underwear?

Of course the R's have to weave some truth and falsehood together, precisely to match the staging. It's the ransom note that determines JonBenet is not located in her bed.

How do we know that Patsy is not lying through her teeth about the pink pajamas? Maybe JonBenet did wear them that night along with her size-6 underwear, that is the simplest assumption to make.

BPD have never mentioned the pink pajama bottoms, who has them?

Why would Patsy dress a sleepy JonBenet for bed, then allow her up for a pineapple snack, knowing full well, the pineapple may cause her to wet the bed?

I'm not so sure that JonBenet ever saw her bed anyway. She may still be wearing her white gap top, precisely because she never dressed for bed, the rest is staging.

When killed I reckon JonBenet was naked from the waist down e.g. no underwear, no longjohns.

For whatever reason all the evidence suggests she was redressed from the torso down in the basement. Not after she arrived home.

If you accept that John redressed JonBenet in those size-12's, what was she wearing prior to John redressing her, the old size-6's?

Why does the redressing matter if it was a nasty pedophile abductor who removed JonBenet from her bed?

They could have dressed JonBenet in the pink top and left her naked from the torso down, wrapped her in the blanket and blamed it all on the abductor. Saying we put JonBenet to be in pink pajamas?

The longjohns are redundant at the crime-scene you also have a pink barbie nightgown this would not raise an eyebrow if JonBenet had been discovered deceased wearing it.

The ransom note determines an abduction scenario this then mandates an explanation as to why JonBenet was wearing her White Gap Top when discovered dead.

In your version of events someone removed JonBenet's longjohns e.g. allegedly a Ramsey, and her size-6 underwear, sexually assaulted her then redressed again in what?

If I were Patsy and JonBenet got up for a pineapple snack, a condition might be, put your nightdress or pink top on?



.

If the evening began with Patsy legitimately getting her ready for bed- it was winter. Kids kick off bedcovers. Asleep or not, I'd have still put some type of pajama bottom or longjohns on her, so Patsy saying she put the longjohns on really isn't unusual to me.
We don't know if Patsy is lying through her teeth. How could we? JB may very well have worn the pink pajama bottoms instead of the longjohns when she got home from the White's, and left the white shirt on. This theory fits as well, especially since the pink bottoms seem to be unaccounted for (as well as any size 6 panties she may have worn that day.
There WAS a pair soiled with fecal matter lying on JB's floor (not sure if it was the bathroom floor or her room- I have read both) inside a pair of black pants. Patsy was questioned about this, and said it wasn't the black pants she wore to the White's (which were velvet) but instead was a pair of black "play pants" she wore earlier in the day. I have always been suspicious about that. While plenty of little girls have black cotton or corduroy play pants, I believe these pants seen on the floor with the fecal stains in them were, in fact, the black velvet pants she wore to the White's. Her soiling them was probably the kicking off point for Patsy that evening. She was tired, stressed from the busy Christmas, and still had to get things in order for a trip she really didn't want to make. She was to meet her stepdaughter's new fiance for the first time. She then was going on to yet another family holiday on a Disney Cruise, where she would "celebrate" turning 40. BIG time stress stuff. JB soiling herself yet again was something she really didn't deal with too well.
We don't know what became of the pink pajama bottoms, OR the black velvet pants she wore to the White's that day. LE didn't really ask about them, as far as I know.
Letting a child have a bedtime snack wearing pajamas is something any parent would do. JB wet the bed every night anyway. Patsy had the sheets changed every day anyway. Cranky kids who may not have eaten much at a party, the excitement of Christmas, the presents, etc. Kids who are hungry at bedtime do not fall asleep. A snack would not seem unusual.
I also believe she never went to bed that night.
Obviously when she was assaulted, she was naked from the waist down. She bled onto her thighs and pubic area, and there was no blood on her longjohns. If she was wearing the pink bottoms, possibly they were bloodied, along with her original panties. The lonhjogns and size 12 panties were added to replace them.
We also can't assume that Patsy had to go back upstairs to get the longjohns (if they were not originally put on her)- they may have been in the basement dryer along with the white blanket. We really don't know the truth here about the pink bottoms, longjohns and black velvet pants. We can assume it was JR who redressed her because of his wool shirt fibers being found in the new panties.
Obviously the whole point of saying this wasn't a pedophile is that, just as you say, a pedophile wouldn't have redressed her anyway. I suppose they COULD have left her naked from the waist down and wrapped in her blanket, but - and this is one more thing that points to the parents' involvement- I can't see Patsy wanting JB found that way. It was all about how she would be found. They wanted to mask the sexual assault, at least to outward appearances. That is why, IMO, they both got so defensive when confronted with the evidence of sexual abuse. Patsy demanding to know "show me where it says that" and JR saying they were trying to disgrace his "relationship with his daughter".
JB could just as easily have been redressed in the longjohns whether or not she was originally wearing them. There is nothing that suggests she was or was not wearing them when she got home. Could have been either.
Frankly, she could also have been wearing the pink nightie, then been redressed in the white top and longjohns. There was a small amount of blood on the pink nightie, which could have happened at the time of the assault or could have happened as she was being cleaned up.
Again, we really have no way to know for sure WHAT she wore originally to bed.
I feel the pineapple snack was eaten in whatever Patsy dressed her in for bed. It could be any of the mentioned garments: the pink Barbie nightie, the white top and longjohns, the white top and missing pink bottoms, the pink pajama top and bottom, and throw the red turtleneck in there too somewhere. Several possibilities. Was the red turtleneck ever tested for blood/urine? I don't think so. I don't think Patsy needed to put a "condition" on JB wearing anything specific in order to have a bedtime snack. She may have said "OK, you can have a snack after you get ready for bed". Or JB may have had the snack while still dressed in her outfit she wore to the White's. Then, if she soiled her pants after eating the pineapple, I can totally see Patsy exploding over that.
There are so many variables in this case. People, clothing, actions. Lies surrounding all of it, NO witnesses that were not family members (that we are aware of). An inadequate and weak DA, incompetent police. Shady relationships with the defense. Put it all together and no wonder we are here all these years later still talking about what she was wearing when she died, what room she died in, and the exact TOD. Things that should have been determined in the first weeks of the investigation, or at least before the house was turned back over to the family and especially before ANYONE who was NOT LE was allowed back inside to remove stuff. Frankly after Aunt P went over there, the investigation was pretty much over at that point.
 
  • #357
who knew the house so well to put her in that wine cellar and use patsy's notepad? who had something against patsy and jonbenet? patsy's 911 call sounded sincere to me.
 
  • #358
DeeDee249,

Now thats interesting because someone deliberately went upstairs to fetch the longjohns, but left out a clean pair of size-6's?

.

Heyya UKGuy,

Unless the longjohns were found in the downstairs laundry room,
or were part of the load containing blanket and pink barbie nightgown, as LHP suggested.
 
  • #359
who knew the house so well to put her in that wine cellar and use patsy's notepad? who had something against patsy and jonbenet? patsy's 911 call sounded sincere to me.

runsdeep,
Hello there, well only another Ramsey obviously knew the house so well. As sincere as the 911 call might sound, how can we dismiss Patsy faking it. She probably sounds sincere because she is truly grieving.

This is one of those cases, that on the surface, appears straight forward, e.g. its patently a crazed pedophile who abducted JonBenet and failed to get her out of the house? Yet dig deeper read a book or two on the subject, and you might be rewarded with an alternative perspective, or have your original assumptions confirmed.

This is a case for Columbo because like his tv dramas, we think we know who did it, we just need the right question to nail it down!


.
 
  • #360
another ramsey could have let someone in 7/or given directions.
 
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