Was Burke involved?

[Rashi'sDaughter]

UKGuy,
You have finally made sense of the mysterious pre-Christmas 911 call. My guess is that it was BR plus an older friend. I just can't quite fathom who made the call....

 

[UKGuy]

UKGuy,
You have finally made sense of the mysterious pre-Christmas 911 call. My guess is that it was BR plus an older friend. I just can't quite fathom who made the call....

Rashi'sDaughter,
Thanks. I think your guess might be correct. The person that made the 911 call can be guessed at from the guest list by eliminating all the Ramsey relatives and employees, etc. Obviously not foolproof but its not a large list.

For me it fills in the collusion aspect that seemed to play out in the early postmortem period. Then later on lots of strange behaviour from the Ramsey friends. Which for me can only be explained if they share a common agenda, i.e. to hide the prior abuse of JonBenet?

I think all the former Ramsey friends probably know all this, they will have discussed all of this privately, but cannot prove much in terms of matters of fact. So rather than face the prospect of litigation, they have just kept quiet.


.

 

[redheadedgal]

The former DA ...

what the current DA stan garnett says:

[ame="http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showpost.php?p=185302&postcount=1"]Forums For Justice - View Single Post - A quick interview with Boulder DA, Stan Garnett, about the Ramsey case![/ame]


and,

Call him Mr. Cautious. Boulder, Colo., District Attorney Stan Garnett isn't about to make the same mistakes as his two predecessors by opening or closing the umbrella of suspicion on any suspects in the unsolved murder of 6-year-old JonBenét Ramsey.

Garnett, 52, who took over the DA's office on Jan. 13 of this year, immediately gave the case back to the Boulder Police Department after a span of nearly six years. He thinks the Boulder PD has been "unfairly maligned in connection with the Ramsey's." Garnett says he looked into the department quite carefully "because I didn't want to give it back to an agency I didn't think could handle it."

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20263921,00.html


(btw, imo, the JMK fiasco should be enough for anyone and everyone to disregard any and all of ML's "opinions" about this case)

 

[arielilane]

I'm anxiously waiting for my book to arrive. I finally ordered James Kolar's book. I have followed this case since the story broke in 1996. I have always felt it was jr and pr never considered br and from what I heard/read, still don't - my opinion...
I'll see what the evidence shows.

 

[DeeDee249]

I'm anxiously waiting for my book to arrive. I finally ordered James Kolar's book. I have followed this case since the story broke in 1996. I have always felt it was jr and pr never considered br and from what I heard/read, still don't - my opinion...
I'll see what the evidence shows.

Please let us know what you think when you have finished the book!

 

[thefragile7393]

Call him Mr. Cautious. Boulder, Colo., District Attorney Stan Garnett isn't about to make the same mistakes as his two predecessors by opening or closing the umbrella of suspicion on any suspects in the unsolved murder of 6-year-old JonBenét Ramsey.

Garnett, 52, who took over the DA's office on Jan. 13 of this year, immediately gave the case back to the Boulder Police Department after a span of nearly six years. He thinks the Boulder PD has been "unfairly maligned in connection with the Ramsey's." )

:banghead::what::screwy: puhleeeze. Unfairly maligned my booty!

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2

 

[OneLove]

Thanks MM! Dreaming about being under that palapa is what gives me reason to get through the other 51 weeks a year. Love the Caribbean and the South Pacific. Fiji & Tahiti are definitely are on my bucket list! lease:

I wonder what their church feels about some of the things the Rs have said and done? Is their behavior accepted in their church? Or are clergy and fellow members mortified about what they have found out regarding some of the R's activites?

Personally, I can't understand how any good mother, Christian or not, can put her child in some of the risque costumes and poses that JBR was in. IMO it is just sexualizing a defenseless child, advertising her to every pervert around. It seems especially strange, and wrong, for a woman that was supposedly abused herself as a child (and I'd bet that she was). OTOH, maybe that is exactly why she did it! She grew up that way, so she figured her daughter should too. I truely believe PR was a very sick woman, and I'm not referring to her cancer! :furious:

JMO

On the subject of "sexualization" and Christianity, many Christian churches promote the role of women as being subservient and submissive to men in every way, and their "careers" are being wives and mothers. Attracting a man, then, becomes the primary "job" of a girl, this focus starting at a young age since there is to be no serious thought of developing any other distinctive career. You see the "beauty queen mentality" among many Christian communities. Once the beauty queen has secured her survival by nabbing a "provider", the job becomes keeping him. And preserving the image (or maintaining the facade). Sometimes at all costs. Because she isn't prepared to be "whole" in and of herself. It's hard for those who didn't grow up in this kind of culture to understand that this is "preservation of LIFE" for women who did. I think of it as somewhat in the same category as Borderline Personality Disorder being about preservation of security and primordial fear of abandonment. It's a very powerful prompter of impulsive behaviors.

We know Patsy came from a "beauty queen mentality" in her family and pseudo-Christian culture. We know she was very, very ill physically. We know she worked VERY hard at sexualizing her young daughter. We know Nedra felt that JonBenet was only a "little bit" abused. :what: :what: :what: We know Patsy had high needs to preserve image and maintain her way of life. We surmise JR valued the beauty queen status. We heard the rumors that he sexualized his beauty queen fascination with at least one hooker.

Altogether, a formula for disaster. All IMO

 

[Nom de plume]

On the subject of "sexualization" and Christianity, many Christian churches promote the role of women as being subservient and submissive to men in every way, and their "careers" are being wives and mothers. Attracting a man, then, becomes the primary "job" of a girl, this focus starting at a young age since there is to be no serious thought of developing any other distinctive career. You see the "beauty queen mentality" among many Christian communities. Once the beauty queen has secured her survival by nabbing a "provider", the job becomes keeping him. And preserving the image (or maintaining the facade). Sometimes at all costs. Because she isn't prepared to be "whole" in and of herself. It's hard for those who didn't grow up in this kind of culture to understand that this is "preservation of LIFE" for women who did. I think of it as somewhat in the same category as Borderline Personality Disorder being about preservation of security and primordial fear of abandonment. It's a very powerful prompter of impulsive behaviors.

We know Patsy came from a "beauty queen mentality" in her family and pseudo-Christian culture. We know she was very, very ill physically. We know she worked VERY hard at sexualizing her young daughter. We know Nedra felt that JonBenet was only a "little bit" abused. :what: :what: :what: We know Patsy had high needs to preserve image and maintain her way of life. We surmise JR valued the beauty queen status. We heard the rumors that he sexualized his beauty queen fascination with at least one hooker.

Altogether, a formula for disaster. All IMO

I know what you are saying about some churches is true. I'm not so sure that the church the R's attended have that kind of attitude though. It's such a foreign concept to me, although I know that way of life does exist for a lot of women.

Nedra's comment about a "little bit abused" was quite telling IMO. Sounds like minimalization and justification to me. She may have had some practice at it before JBR.

BBM Yep! :banghead:

 

[belimom]

I've wondered about the quote from Nedra so I googled and this is the best I could find - if someone else can find something that directly links the quote to Nedra, it would carry more weight with me. Not saying it's not true - I just would love to see the direct link. TIA!

Originally Posted by southcitymom

Yes, I researched this a litle and found the exact reference is to PMPT, papareback, page 519, where Nedra was being interviewed for Geraldo and she said she didn't know that JBR had "been molested to some extent and hit on the head." Also, it sounds like this scene was translated in the movie and something similar was said by Nedra about hearing JBR had been a "little molested"
So, taken in context, it doesn't sound like Nedra's comment indicated any prior knowledge about chronic molestation.

 

[midwest mama]

UKGuy,
You have finally made sense of the mysterious pre-Christmas 911 call. My guess is that it was BR plus an older friend. I just can't quite fathom who made the call....

Mrs. "Bulldog" Stine was at the door to greet the police and assure them all was well inside the house. Since her son, Doug, was supposedly a very good friend of Burkes, could we possibly think of him being involved?

The Stines provided living quarters for the R's for about 6 months after JB's murder. In one interview JR said the Stines weren't really all that close as friends. Right. So "not close" as to provide them a home for nearly 6 months.

Then, the Stines are pictured with the R's in a party mode at their home in Charlevoix, and later, Mr. Stine went to work at his "not close" friend's (JR's) company.

Also, the Stines and Ramseys made a trip to NY together just prior to Christmas. Again, them not being close, seems rather strange to me.

 

[UKGuy]

Mrs. "Bulldog" Stine was at the door to greet the police and assure them all was well inside the house. Since her son, Doug, was supposedly a very good friend of Burkes, could we possibly think of him being involved?

The Stines provided living quarters for the R's for about 6 months after JB's murder. In one interview JR said the Stines weren't really all that close as friends. Right. So "not close" as to provide them a home for nearly 6 months.

Then, the Stines are pictured with the R's in a party mode at their home in Charlevoix, and later, Mr. Stine went to work at his "not close" friend's (JR's) company.

Also, the Stines and Ramseys made a trip to NY together just prior to Christmas. Again, them not being close, seems rather strange to me.

midwest mama,
OMG, all these James Bond procedures between the Stines and Ramsey's. Don't forget Susan Stine's impersonation of a police chief via email.

Just what could they have in common?

Why should Susan Stine be the one to answer the door, just who could she be protecting?


.

 

[Whaleshark]

Serious food for thought:

"Stine appeared to Kaempfer to have been disturbed by the conversation and had listened to Burke and Doug talk about how JonBenét had been strangled. Based upon Kaempfer’s statement, it appeared that Stine had overheard the boys discussing whether or not manual strangulation had been involved in JonBenét’s death.
Stine described the conversation as being “very impersonal,” and it struck her that the discussion about the details of JonBenét’s death was like the boys were “talking about a TV show.”

Foreign Faction, Who Really Kidnapped JonBenet, James Kolar, page 353

 

[UKGuy]

Serious food for thought:

"Stine appeared to Kaempfer to have been disturbed by the conversation and had listened to Burke and Doug talk about how JonBenét had been strangled. Based upon Kaempfer’s statement, it appeared that Stine had overheard the boys discussing whether or not manual strangulation had been involved in JonBenét’s death.
Stine described the conversation as being “very impersonal,” and it struck her that the discussion about the details of JonBenét’s death was like the boys were “talking about a TV show.”

Foreign Faction, Who Really Kidnapped JonBenet, James Kolar, page 353

Whaleshark,
Really, now why should boys at that age be concerned with such a subject? How could they know any details, particularly Burke Ramsey since he was shuttled out of the house early that morning?

As I've suggested in another thread, manual strangulation is not inconsistent with Coroner Meyer's autopsy conclusion regarding the COD.


.

 

[DeeDee249]

Mrs. "Bulldog" Stine was at the door to greet the police and assure them all was well inside the house. Since her son, Doug, was supposedly a very good friend of Burkes, could we possibly think of him being involved?

The Stines provided living quarters for the R's for about 6 months after JB's murder. In one interview JR said the Stines weren't really all that close as friends. Right. So "not close" as to provide them a home for nearly 6 months.

Then, the Stines are pictured with the R's in a party mode at their home in Charlevoix, and later, Mr. Stine went to work at his "not close" friend's (JR's) company.

Also, the Stines and Ramseys made a trip to NY together just prior to Christmas. Again, them not being close, seems rather strange to me.

The Stines also pulled up stakes from Boulder to follow their "not close" friends to Atlanta, where JR gave Mr S a job. Who MOVES away and pulls kids out of a school, etc to follow "not close" friends to another state?
Seems fishy to me, and it did back then, too. Had to be a reason, and many people think that BR may have had a friend over that night- possibly to take along on the trip.

 

[midwest mama]

The Stines also pulled up stakes from Boulder to follow their "not close" friends to Atlanta, where JR gave Mr S a job. Who MOVES away and pulls kids out of a school, etc to follow "not close" friends to another state?
Seems fishy to me, and it did back then, too. Had to be a reason, and many people think that BR may have had a friend over that night- possibly to take along on the trip.

I'm down with the Stines being caught up in this whole stinking fishy thing.

How about the remarks about bike tracks found in the snow leading away from the house, and Patsy's bike (Christmas gift from John) not really being accounted for thereafter?

And S. Stine driving the boys to and from school, ever the vigilant "bulldog".

 

[redheadedgal]

puhleeeze. Unfairly maligned my booty!

yes-- mistakes were made in the beginning...

but it seems you appeared to hold ST with esteem a while back... you read his book AND recommended it to another poster to learn the facts (best book?/the ramseys are cleared threads).

#confused

 

[UKGuy]

I'm down with the Stines being caught up in this whole stinking fishy thing.

How about the remarks about bike tracks found in the snow leading away from the house, and Patsy's bike (Christmas gift from John) not really being accounted for thereafter?

And S. Stine driving the boys to and from school, ever the vigilant "bulldog".

midwest mama,
It could be that a Ramsey friend used it to leave the house early that morning?

IMO the Stine's are central to events leading upto and after the death of JonBenet.

Why should the Stines align themselves with one of the most notorious child murder cases in USofA history?

I reckon the Stines and the Ramsey's colluded to avoid not only JonBenet's killer facing justice but also that of any other alleged person who was simultaneously also molesting JonBenet.


.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

13 Q. Do you have anyone running interference for you
14 with respect to social contacts or attempts? Anyone
15 taking calls or screening calls?
16 A. Not -- we did for a while, only because we lived
17 with some people.
18 Q. Who were those people?
19 A. Susan and Glenn Stine.
20 Q. Should I add them to your list of close friends?
21 A. They were not close friends, believe it or not.
22 They were friends, but we didn't socialize a lot with
23 them.

Here's a quote where they say about not being good friends.

24 A. Glenn Stine now works with me. He joined our
25 company in August of this year

Lots of discussion about the relationship with the Stines here: http://www.acandyrose.com/jonbenet-foundations.htm

 

[Anyhoo]

midwest mama,
It could be that a Ramsey friend used it to leave the house early that morning?

IMO the Stine's are central to events leading upto and after the death of JonBenet.

Why should the Stines align themselves with one of the most notorious child murder cases in USofA history?

I reckon the Stines and the Ramsey's colluded to avoid not only JonBenet's killer facing justice but also that of any other alleged person who was simultaneously also molesting JonBenet.


.

I too strongly suspect the involvement of others (outside of the immediate R family) in the death of JBR. I am interested in hearing your theories in more detail about the fundemental/secret relationship between the Stines and the Ramseys. I have already hinted in other posts what I think the relationship may be, but I am always interested in hearing other opinions. And let me just add that whenever someone starts looking outside of the immediate R family it gets me very interested, because I have always thought that the solution lies there. Those who only focus on the R's are missing a major peice of the picture. I am not saying the R's were not involved but I am saying they were not the only ones involved, IMO. Some of these other people they knew were also involved in some way. This case is not what it appears to be from the surface.

 

[DeeDee249]

If a "friend" was there that night and involved, then I do not believe it was an adult friend of the Rs. I would think it would have been a friend of BR's or JAR's, with my first thought the S's son. It would explain a few things...for one, the extreme behavior of SS. I can't believe she wasn't prosecuted for impersonating a police officer in those e-mails - but I can imagine why not. Prosecuting her for that might have led to uncovering BR's participation in the crime, especially if her son was involved as well. And Colorado law would prohibit identifying him as well because doing so would expose the involvement of the younger child. Even though he was over 10 (I believe he was a few years older than BR-) a common age for sexual exploration, possibly even erotic or auto-erotic asphyxiation. Don't underestimate this phenomena as a point of interest for young boys, regardless of how you feel about it personally. As distasteful as it is, it is out there and some kids are doing it.
This could explain the bike tracks and the apparent disappearance of Patsy's bike as well. I can envision them sending him home on that bike. Oddly, his parents were NOT among those friends called over that morning. WHY? Why call all your other friends and not them?
It explains JR's odd comment (if it actually was said) that they didn't MEAN to kill her because they wrapped her up. And it explains Patsy odd comment "We didn't MEAN for this to happen".