Was Christmas night special?

[BBB167893]

"I would be very disgusted to think someone could just blame God for our evil doings. Is God's plan not evil, even if a little girl experienced the ultimate terror and pain and lost her infinite life that Christmas night?"

You will find, Rupert, that throughout history, the worst among us have been able to justify their atrocities as doing God's will. In the last interview she did, Patsy said that it was GOOD that JB was dead because it's brought so many people to the lord. WHAT?! Well, I guess that proves what I've been saying: she was able to justify it as God's will. I'm gonna be sick.

NC, I stole that "quiet ones" bit from George Carlin. Sorry.

 

[tumble]

But God is all powerful and he has a plan and according to the poem (which Patsy had obviously introduced at her last interview), he sacrificed JonBenet at Christmas like a Shooting Star (not the Wandering Star)

Very interesting. It was this kind of info I was reaching for starting this thread. I kind of got the impression that PR could be guided by religious overtones. As I am reaching for a motive to this case(in case it was not an accident leading up to it).

How religious was the R's? Where they part of any extreme organisations?
I Sweden we have some pretty harmless religious groups and one of them recently had a person being killed by a woman whos mind was messed up the the chief priest.

 

[BBB167893]

"How religious was the R's?"

Patsy was heavily religious, but John, despite his claim, couldn't recite one bit of scripture.

 

[rashomon]

"I would be very disgusted to think someone could just blame God for our evil doings. Is God's plan not evil, even if a little girl experienced the ultimate terror and pain and lost her infinite life that Christmas night?"

You will find, Rupert, that throughout history, the worst among us have been able to justify their atrocities as doing God's will. In the last interview she did, Patsy said that it was GOOD that JB was dead because it's brought so many people to the lord. WHAT?! Well, I guess that proves what I've been saying: she was able to justify it as God's will. I'm gonna be sick.

So true SuperDave. Just look what's going on in the Middle East right now in the name of an alleged "God's will". And the Christian crusades of the Middle Ages were not one bit better.

Imo, all that purple ribbon stuff Patsy mentions in DOI (that by tying purple ribbons into the tree she had unknowingly 'woven death' into it) were nothing more than a pretty lame attempt to move the focus away from her as the perp. To make it appear as if she, the loving mother, had a 'premonition' that JB was going to die (but not by her own hand of course), and that this maybe was all part of 'God's plan'.

But what Patsy felt deep down inside is another story. Shall we believe what Jeff Shapiro said who claimed he watched her sitting in the church pew and moving her lips as if begging for forgiveness?

 

[rashomon]

But God is all powerful and he has a plan and according to the poem (which Patsy had obviously introduced at her last interview), he sacrificed JonBenet at Christmas like a Shooting Star (not the Wandering Star)

Very interesting. It was this kind of info I was reaching for starting this thread. I kind of got the impression that PR could be guided by religious overtones. As I am reaching for a motive to this case(in case it was not an accident leading up to it).

How religious was the R's? Where they part of any extreme organisations?
I Sweden we have some pretty harmless religious groups and one of them recently had a person being killed by a woman whos mind was messed up the the chief priest.

Patsy was religious, a regular churchgoer and active in her church community, but I don't believe she was a religious fanatic or suffered from some kind of 'religious psychosis'.

 

[BBB167893]

"So true SuperDave. Just look what's going on in the Middle East right now in the name of an alleged "God's will". And the Christian crusades of the Middle Ages were not one bit better."

That's just one of MANY instances I was thinking about!

"Patsy was religious, a regular churchgoer and active in her church community, but I don't believe she was a religious fanatic or suffered from some kind of 'religious psychosis'."

i don't think I was suggesting that it was the motive, rashomon. I was suggesting that it was justification after-the-fact.

 

[kazzbar]

Hahaha you're a funny guy
Generally speaking just because someone is quiet, that doesn't neccasarily mean there's nothing go on upstairs.
God knows what they might be thinking

Yeah, look at Jeffry Dahmer, soft looking guy, quiet and unassuming.Very polite. But up stairs in his fridge he had human heads and body parts. He interacted with people at work but when he came home he was'alone' with his thoughts. There is no underestimating people who commit the most perverse acts.

 

[aspidistra]

Yeah, look at Jeffry Dahmer, soft looking guy, quiet and unassuming.Very polite. But up stairs in his fridge he had human heads and body parts. He interacted with people at work but when he came home he was'alone' with his thoughts. There is no underestimating people who commit the most perverse acts.

I think those of us who personally have known and been fooled by psychopaths or sociopaths would see a similarity in the behaviour of Karr. Anyone luckier or more sheltered would not be able to see the evil there. I have had the misfortune of knowing someone mentally ill who fooled everyone including me about his nature and I knew him for many years before I saw the dark side. Not as bad as this, not killing, but certainly the whole gamut of lying and abuse, with careful covering up.

 

[narlacat]

I think those of us who personally have known and been fooled by psychopaths or sociopaths would see a similarity in the behaviour of Karr. Anyone luckier or more sheltered would not be able to see the evil there. I have had the misfortune of knowing someone mentally ill who fooled everyone including me about his nature and I knew him for many years before I saw the dark side. Not as bad as this, not killing, but certainly the whole gamut of lying and abuse, with careful covering up.

You've known one person that was mentally ill and you think somehow that qualifies you to diagnose Karr?

 

[MysteryAddict]

She actually wore purple on Christmas Eve? I didn't know that. Are you sure John said that? If so, Patsy dressed her IN PURPLE!

The Christmas religious "purple" theme by Anthony Hodges about Patsy has been talked about alot. I keep my mind open but try to make sense of either IDI or RDI. Like Paradox, the only way I could figure RDI was the "purple" thing. If Patsy did it, there had to be something very psychotic there. Interesting, where does this psychosis originate from? Patsy reflected that the purple ribbon in the trees might have been a symbol for the sacrifice at Easter being brought into Christmas. I saw her last interview as well and she mentioned the sacrifice again, stating that no other religion had that. It's almost like another person started talking.

Also, the My Twin Doll Christmas Present seemed strange. Patsy said that JonBenet was not impressed. It's a strange present to give and makes me wonder who the present was really intended for.

Then there's the Shooting Star poem by her friend Susan Merriman. It's like the purple thing. Susan might have been consoling Patsy that JonBenet did not die in vain; she was actually sacrificed by God. Patsy said she doesn't believe God causes bad things, but he makes good with it. But God is all powerful and he has a plan and according to the poem (which Patsy had obviously introduced at her last interview), he sacrificed JonBenet at Christmas like a Shooting Star (not the Wandering Star). Talk about mixed but connected messages.

Maybe the rage was building. Maybe one part of Patsy didn't realize what was going on, but another part of Patsy used this sacrifice thing to rationalize her feelings and excuse the act that which was inevitably to come. Couldn't wait til Easter?

On the other hand, how can John and the rest of the family all put up a front about this? If Patsy was really psychotic, then they must know. If they know, then how come they don't talk?

Therein lies the mystery. Must I flip back to the intruder theory to make sense of all this?

I would be very disgusted to think someone could just blame God for our evil doings. Is God's plan not evil, even if a little girl experienced the ultimate terror and pain and lost her infinite life that Christmas night?

This makes me think Patsy was probably very jealous of
John's attentions towards JonBenet. He found her to be
beautiful and may have been molesting her.

Patsy began to "lose it mentally". She developed this theory of the sacrifice to God in order to rationalize her desire to get rid of JonBenet.

I'm convinced Patsy wrote the ransom note after looking at
the comparisons to her exemplars on the pdf at CandyRose!
It's identical!

Her sweater fibers entwined in the garrot and that it was made with her paint brush says she brutally strangled JonBenet!

I think John did the staging with the window, suitcase etc.
because she would have told that he had been molesting
JonBenet.

Patsy had become mentally unbalanced that's the only
explanation.

She hoped she would still be Saved By The Cross!

 

[narlacat]

You pretty much hit the nail on the head MysteryAddict.

 

[wenchie]

Patsy's Christmas sounds horrible - like it was supposed to be fun, but was mainly just a lot of stress.

She had to have everything ready to take to Michigan, plus had to pack for four people for a totally different climate for the Disney cruise.

I think she was just sick of it all, and especially sick of working so hard to make everything perfect (an impossible goal), that she just lost her temper and went too far.

 

[Texana]

Also, the My Twin Doll Christmas Present seemed strange. Patsy said that JonBenet was not impressed. It's a strange present to give and makes me wonder who the present was really intended for.

Rupert, with all due respect, the My Twinn dolls were very popular then. I had a four year old daughter, and I was already aware of them. The American Girl dolls were tremendously popular and well-publicized, and the My Twinn dolls were kind of jumping on that trend. Several of my daughters' friends got the My Twinn dolls over the next few years. They were really not very pretty OR very realistic in looking like the child, so JonBenet's reaction when she opened the doll--unenthusiastic--was not surprising to me.

I also remember non-traditional colors for Christmas dresses were just coming into style. Purple was very popular, as was gold--with green, with no red--, and then in another two or three years, black. Purple was also being promoted as a color for Christmas decorating--in the next two years after that I started buying purple and silver ornaments for our Christmas tree.

Purple has always been a color with deep significance to anyone in with a liturgical Christian faith, but I'm afraid that in 1996 it was just a "new" color for the trend-conscious moms with money to spare--

Which would be...Patsy.

 

[SleuthingSleuth]

Hmm...did Jonbenet get a normal sized "My Twin" doll...or a life sized one? I had heard Patsy had gotten her a lifesized one...but I've never seen it.

 

[Shelayne]

I used to get a catalog for "My Twinn" dolls. They were very cute, I thought. I only have boys, so no "My Twinns" for me. LOL. They do have boy dolls as well.

Did she have one custom made--were they doing that in 1996 yet? Where you sent in a photo of the child and filled out a form about hair--color and texture, eye-color--color and shape, skin tones, smile, dimples, etc. I thought that was such a cool idea for a little girl, though quite expensive for a doll.

I don't remember seeing them advertised as life-size. At least in my catalogs they were a normal-sized doll. There is a life-size Barbie, though.

I just remembered Christmas 1996 at my parents home. My baby boy was only 3 months old, and my twin nieces (who were almost 6) were wearing velvet dresses--that were--you guessed it purple! I should go find the photos. LOL.

 

[Texana]

I used to get a catalog for "My Twinn" dolls. They were very cute, I thought. I only have boys, so no "My Twinns" for me. LOL. They do have boy dolls as well.

Did she have one custom made--were they doing that in 1996 yet? Where you sent in a photo of the child and filled out a form about hair--color and texture, eye-color--color and shape, skin tones, smile, dimples, etc. I thought that was such a cool idea for a little girl, though quite expensive for a doll.

I don't remember seeing them advertised as life-size. At least in my catalogs they were a normal-sized doll. There is a life-size Barbie, though.

I just remembered Christmas 1996 at my parents home. My baby boy was only 3 months old, and my twin nieces (who were almost 6) were wearing velvet dresses--that were--you guessed it purple! I should go find the photos. LOL.

I'm pretty sure they were doing that in 1996. They were expensive but not outrageous. (The American Girl dolls were $60 so My Twinn were comparable.) I don't think they were life-sized. I think that is a mistake--I think they were about 18", unless there was a larger size available. Doll sizes are fairly standard, because of the big collector market.

 

[Peter Hamilton]

Yes,there's been mucho violence associated with Religion over the years--the Spanish Inquisition,perhaps the most infamous---Also, tens of thousands of innocent women were burned at the stake for being witches in Europe in the 1600's and 1700's--and what about the Aztecs,who had thousands of human sacrifices to appease the Gods--and look at the Catholics and Protestants in Ireland,fighting with each other for 500 years

 

[Peter Hamilton]

MysteryAddict--good post--I'm in total agreement

 

[redbetty]

With regard to the comment that a father shouldn't specifically remember the colour of his daughter's dress on Christmas Eve...These parents obviously loved their daughter (and doted upon her very much.) With Patsy being obsessed with dressing her doll, etc.. it doesn't seem illogical to me that John would remember because Patsy probably drew his attention to it more than once.
"Isn't that dress pretty on her, etc..."
Also after losing a loved one, you tend to recall the most innane details of your times together. I can remember the coloured stripe on my Dad's pajamas he was wearing the day he died in the hospital (nearly seven years ago.)

 

[Old Broad]

When you think about it, Christmas is a wonderful time to commit a very serious crime. The top LE people will be off enjoying the holiday while the younger less experienced people are manning the ship. This case could have been very different if it had been handled better right from the get go!

OB