Wayne Millard: Dellen Millard Charged With Murder In The First Degree #1

[SnooperDuper]

I see the picture of the gun and bullets, but the comments below don't seem to indicate that he was trying to sell it online, in my opinion. Maybe I've got the order wrong, but it seems someone asks him 'How much' and his answer appeared to be that they sell in stores for a certain price. I saw no discussion that lead me to believe it was being sold to the person commenting on it, just that they were a curious friend, in my opinion.

MWJ's curious friend is quite a curious friend, isn't he? So many pictures of racks of cash and marijuana in his Instagram. No doubt MWJ's friend is looking for a 1/2 price Glock for totally legitimate reasons, like protecting his racks of cash and marijuana from bad people.

Good for you for picking up on the fact that MWJ is a friend of this guy, and not some stranger.

Do you think MWJ and his friend share hobbies?

 

[Alethea Dice]

IIRC, Judge Heeney ruled the evidence out even though the secondary warrant was not a legal requirement at the time, but the law was under review.

Quite different from the much later Nov 2013 Vu Thanh Long case linked earlier where the judge allowed the evidence anyway:



WRT bringing the administration of justice into disrepute, there are also cases where evidence illegally obtained was allowed because the "probative value outweighs the prejudicial effect".

All that aside, presumably LE knew enough about the new law at the time of the computer seizures in this case, and had obtained the appropriate warrants ... another little goody we won't know unless it becomes an issue at trial.

That's true. But also, as a result of that case:

Firstly, the law is now clear that search warrants must specify that the police are authorized to search computers and phones.

Secondly, companies should also be aware that even if the police do not obtain specific authorization to search computers, they may seize them and then seek subsequent authorization to search them.

Though it does still leave questions about how specific the warrants have to be and there are still no guidelines for issuing the warrants.

http://www.canadianappeals.com/2013/11/19/the-digital-and-internet-age-meets-the-law-of-search-and-seizure-as-the-scc-clarifies-the-law-on-search-warrants-and-computers-in-r-v-vu/

 

[SnooperDuper]

That's true. But also, as a result of that case:





Though it does still leave questions about how specific the warrants have to be and there are still no guidelines for issuing the warrants.

http://www.canadianappeals.com/2013/11/19/the-digital-and-internet-age-meets-the-law-of-search-and-seizure-as-the-scc-clarifies-the-law-on-search-warrants-and-computers-in-r-v-vu/

OTOH, LE doesn't need a warrant at all to access someone's publicly available Instagram and Facebook pages.

 

[Alethea Dice]

When MWJ posted a picture of a Glock and a price: what exactly was he trying to communicate?

After all, he didn't write, "Sorry pal, you need a PAL #KeepItLegal"

When he tagged the gun picture, what was he trying to communicate - to who? After all, once you tag a picture, it's no longer obscure but public and fully searchable.

Why did MWJ want to make the picture of the gun fully searchable? What kind of people was he trying to connect with through the tags #gunporn #glocklife #teamglock #glock? What other kind of images and info come up on Instagram if you search for #gunporn #glocklife #teamglock #glock?

From what I've seen, many of these types post pictures just to show they have them, or simply because they like them. Instagram isn't exactly a place where people post to communicate items that they have for sale. It's simply the place where they now post pictures they want to share. And you would never post a picture without tagging it. I would imagine he would be trying to share it with other people with the same interest, even if the people sharing that interest may not be who others might want to associate with.

JMO

 

[Alethea Dice]

It made me curious to see the deals I could get in "ur local gun store". For one thing, there seems to be a dearth of gun stores in the GTA. Very little choice as to where to go.

This is the closest one to Etobicoke (and one of 2 in the GTA?) where a Glock is roughly $800 + $100 taxes = $900
http://www.alflahertys.com/collections/firearms/Handguns

So "ur local gun store" seems to be offering a hell of a deal and I want to know where that is.

I priced these in my local gun stores and the price for a new one was $699 now, in 2014. They didn't have any used ones on hand for me to comparison price.

 

[Alethea Dice]

OTOH, LE doesn't need a warrant at all to access someone's publicly available Instagram and Facebook pages.

So what? I think they'll need a little more than an Instagram or Facebook photo to get the charges to stick. Insinuations don't equal charges, let alone convictions.

JMO

 

[SnooperDuper]

From what I've seen, many of these types post pictures just to show they have them, or simply because they like them. Instagram isn't exactly a place where people post to communicate items that they have for sale. It's simply the place where they now post pictures they want to share.

Slate article Are Gun Sales Really "Booming" on Instagram? http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_t...real_problem_is_the_law_not_social_media.html references this article about gun sales through Instagram at the Daily Beast: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...to-sell-their-guns-and-it-s-mostly-legal.html

Among all the sneakers, dresses, paintings, and dogs being filtered and sold through ad-hoc negotiations on Instagram, there is one outlier: guns.

A simple search on the increasingly popular photography app, which Facebook bought in April 2012 for $1 billion, reveals a web of semi-anonymous private and professional dealers who are advertising, negotiating, and selling firearms over Instagram.

So in fact Instagram is widely known and accepted as a marketplace, even specifically of guns. Instagram IS EXACTLY a place where people post to communicate items that they have for sale

And you would never post a picture without tagging it. I would imagine he would be trying to share it with other people with the same interest, even if the people sharing that interest may not be who others might want to associate with.

JMO

Well I guess if someone has the same buddies in Instagram and on Facebook, that means they intend to associate with each other?

Why would you never post a picture without tagging it? After all, you CAN do that. It also makes your photos private and unsearchable by default because images are not at all searchable by any known technology unless they are tagged in some way. So, basically, tagging is an invite for the public to share in your photos. If you were selling things, you would need to tag in order to allow everyone who might buy to find you and your pic.

If your pics were meant to be private and for friends only, you would neither tag them nor make them public.

 

[SnooperDuper]

I priced these in my local gun stores and the price for a new one was $699 now, in 2014. They didn't have any used ones on hand for me to comparison price.

Still $800 taxes in and I bet the paperwork involves a fee too. Amazing that if MWJ was onto such a hot limited time deal as a gun for 1/2 price that he could not pass on a name of a store and the date the super sale ends to his buddy who is looking. Just "ur local gun store", I am sure his buddy knows what that means.

 

[SnooperDuper]

So what? I think they'll need a little more than an Instagram or Facebook photo to get the charges to stick. Insinuations don't equal charges, let alone convictions.

JMO

I guess that's why LE busted MWJ, to check if all the gun pics on his Instagram matched with the contents of his home? No, pics might not convict, but they provide an opening for LE to go in and physically investigate, which by all accounts they did.

ETA: the contents of one's Facebook and Instagram are a personally curated, secure collection of photos and conversations meaningful to the curator/account owner. How one's own digital magnum opus could be seen as indirect rather than direct evidence of your activities is beyond me.

If Instagram and Facebook photos are grounds to investigate, the user's phone can be then searched for the original geotagging information (GPS coordinates) that the phone attaches to every photo which would document where that photo of the gun was taken. That helps move things beyond insinuations.

 

[Alethea Dice]

Slate article Are Gun Sales Really "Booming" on Instagram? http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_t...real_problem_is_the_law_not_social_media.html references this article about gun sales through Instagram at the Daily Beast: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...to-sell-their-guns-and-it-s-mostly-legal.html



So in fact Instagram is widely known and accepted as a marketplace, even specifically of guns. Instagram IS EXACTLY a place where people post to communicate items that they have for sale

Except the Daily Beast never said sales were “booming,” nor that Instagram had become the “go-to place” for Internet arms sales. It didn’t really say anything, in fact, about how widespread the practice is. But that didn't stop the ever-hyperbolic Daily Mail from reporting that Instagram is “growing in popularity as a digital marketplace for people trading in firearms.”

Asked about the claims of “booming” gun sales made by other outlets citing his story, Ries said, “I can’t speak to their exaggerations.” True enough. It’s not his fault that a bunch of hacks are rewriting his story to make it seem more sensational than it is.

You work for the Daily Beast? Just kidding

It's not that difficult to tell which Instagram accounts are actual gun stores. Also, I can imagine the sale of guns on places like Instagram are much simpler in countries/states that do not have gun controls. I couldn't help but notice that the photo in your link actually says "for sale", unlike the one on MWJ's account.

Well I guess if someone has the same buddies in Instagram and on Facebook, that means they intend to associate with each other?

Why would you never post a picture without tagging it? After all, you CAN do that. It also makes your photos private and unsearchable by default because images are not at all searchable by any known technology unless they are tagged in some way. So, basically, tagging is an invite for the public to share in your photos. If you were selling things, you would need to tag in order to allow everyone who might buy to find you and your pic.

If your pics were meant to be private and for friends only, you would neither tag them nor make them public.

You don't have "friends" on Instagram. People can choose to follow you whether you know them or not. Unless, of course, your account is private.

Why bother posting a picture if you don't want to share it by tagging it? It's not like the quality of Instagram photos is so great that you'd want your own little private album in there. Even if your account is private, if you want to post a photo to share with only your followers, you would tag it so they might see it. It's pretty pointless to post pictures on a photo sharing site if you have no intention of sharing with anyone.

JMO

 

[Alethea Dice]

Still $800 taxes in and I bet the paperwork involves a fee too. Amazing that if MWJ was onto such a hot limited time deal as a gun for 1/2 price that he could not pass on a name of a store and the date the super sale ends to his buddy who is looking. Just "ur local gun store", I am sure his buddy knows what that means.

It's not half price, plus it's used. The guy asked him how much. He didn't ask him for the grand total with taxes, licences, shipping fees, etc.. And he didn't ask him for the name of a store or if it was a super sale. I notice he didn't come back after hearing the price to say "wow, good price, where can I get it".

Maybe he was selling it, and maybe his buddy (if it is a real life buddy and not just a follower) did know what he may have meant, but that's pretty weak evidence no matter how sure you are.

JMO

 

[Alethea Dice]

I guess that's why LE busted MWJ, to check if all the gun pics on his Instagram matched with the contents of his home? No, pics might not convict, but they provide an opening for LE to go in and physically investigate, which by all accounts they did.

ETA: the contents of one's Facebook and Instagram are a personally curated, secure collection of photos and conversations meaningful to the curator/account owner. How one's own digital magnum opus could be seen as indirect rather than direct evidence of your activities is beyond me.

If Instagram and Facebook photos are grounds to investigate, the user's phone can be then searched for the original geotagging information (GPS coordinates) that the phone attaches to every photo which would document where that photo of the gun was taken. That helps move things beyond insinuations.

Well, if they go to that extreme for every Instagram and Facebook photo posted, I'm glad our LE is being kept busy and working hard. (You assume that every user only takes these photos in their own home?)

JMO

 

[Juballee]

It made me curious to see the deals I could get in "ur local gun store". For one thing, there seems to be a dearth of gun stores in the GTA. Very little choice as to where to go.

This is the closest one to Etobicoke (and one of 2 in the GTA?) where a Glock is roughly $800 + $100 taxes = $900
http://www.alflahertys.com/collections/firearms/Handguns

So "ur local gun store" seems to be offering a hell of a deal and I want to know where that is.

So maybe MWJ bought the gun on the black market, and that's why his reference to the local gun shop was vague. I still see nothing to indicate that the picture of the gun was posted as an advertisement to sell it. Kids today take pictures of everything they buy, wear or eat and post it on Instagram, it doesn't mean that they are selling their clothes, food or whatnot just because they post a picture of something and tell someone how much they paid for it.

We will just have to agree to disagree whether "How much?" meant "How much did you pay for it?" or "How much would you charge me for it?". I personally don't think we can get a definitive answer to that question without imput from the people who had that conversation, no matter how much we debate it.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Well, if they go to that extreme for every Instagram and Facebook photo posted, I'm glad our LE is being kept busy and working hard. (You assume that every user only takes these photos in their own home?)

JMO

If someone is under investigation, are LE really going to go track down everything about the person, except the obvious stuff on the internet? There is some myth that the internet is unpoliceable and off limits, but too many people have been charged for their activities on the internet alone for that to be remotely true.

So maybe MWJ bought the gun on the black market, and that's why his reference to the local gun shop was vague. I still see nothing to indicate that the picture of the gun was posted as an advertisement to sell it. Kids today take pictures of everything they buy, wear or eat and post it on Instagram, it doesn't mean that they are selling their clothes, food or whatnot just because they post a picture of something and tell someone how much they paid for it.

We will just have to agree to disagree whether "How much?" meant "How much did you pay for it?" or "How much would you charge me for it?". I personally don't think we can get a definitive answer to that question without imput from the people who had that conversation, no matter how much we debate it.

Ultimately I don't know. I think MWJ used social media to market some cars he was trying to sell? I think there may be a pattern for him of selling over the internet.

On one hand, MWJ had all these questionable photos on his social media...OTOH he's on video saying it's not fake, we're popping seals, it's all for real, I'm not a fake.

If I were LE, given the pics, I would really want to clarify things.

 

[Juballee]

If someone is under investigation, are LE really going to go track down everything about the person, except the obvious stuff on the internet? There is some myth that the internet is unpoliceable and off limits, but too many people have been charged for their activities on the internet alone for that to be remotely true.



Ultimately I don't know. I think MWJ used social media to market some cars he was trying to sell? I think there may be a pattern for him of selling over the internet.

On one hand, MWJ had all these questionable photos on his social media...OTOH he's on video saying it's not fake, we're popping seals, it's all for real, I'm not a fake.

If I were LE, given the pics, I would really want to clarify things.

Do you think that MWJ used social media to sell some cars and do you have the links that show the pattern, or are you just guessing, please? Was he selling the cars or marketing car events, do you know?

Although I think that this is the wrong thread for this question, it should be on the MWJ thread.

 

[Somegirl]

Dellen Millard hasn't spoken to LE apparently, but somehow this gun is now allegedly connected to him. Are we to believe that these Mathews kept names of who they sold items to, I wonder. I can't imagine gun traffickers keeping lists of gun recipients. JMO That leaves fingerprints. In this scenario it would imply that the Mathews and DM's prints were on the gun in question. But, no gun was alleged to have been used in the TB or LB cases. Taking the same stance that MWJ and Co are presumed innocent it begs the question ' How and why would they be charged with trafficking a gun within a specific period of time?' Unless there was a witness to this transaction. I am betting that weapons dealers do not give receipts, so who would know and who would tell? Not the sellers and I am guessing not the buyers. IF the gun that killed WM either by suicide or homicide is alleged to have once been in the hands of the Mathews, how was it linked to them? If the gun never changed hands does that mean the previous holders could be responsible for something other than weapons trafficking? Did someone buy the weapon with an alias, but then who would relay that information. The list of questions in this case keeps getting longer and logic is non existent IMO

Either the gun was bought with a cheque or a receipt given (not likely) or someone is claiming they saw the transaction (again unlikely, unless a paid informant IMO) JMO

Maybe the burner phone has been around for quite some time and has text records that could connect the purchase of such gun to MWJ... Just one possibility... MO

 

[Alethea Dice]

Maybe the burner phone has been around for quite some time and has text records that could connect the purchase of such gun to MWJ... Just one possibility... MO

The gun was supposedly purchased sometime between June 1, 2012 and July 30, 2012.

Police allege all three trafficked a gun between June 1, 2012, and July 30, 2012.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2014/04/12/tim_bosma_murder_case_laura_babcock_dead_before_she_was_reported_missing_police_allege.html

The phone was purchased around February 2013.

Police said that phone records revealed that one of the suspect’s had obtained a cellphone under a fake name three months ago, with most calls made in Toronto’s west end. That phone has not been used since Bosma’s disappearance.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/toronto-man-arrested-in-timothy-bosma-case-1.1277200#ixzz2ThlbZlhy

It would be kind of odd to be texting about buying a gun 8 months after the fact, but that's JMO.

 

[Somegirl]

The gun was supposedly purchased sometime between June 1, 2012 and July 30, 2012.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2014/04/12/tim_bosma_murder_case_laura_babcock_dead_before_she_was_reported_missing_police_allege.html

The phone was purchased around February 2013.



http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/toronto-man-arrested-in-timothy-bosma-case-1.1277200#ixzz2ThlbZlhy

It would be kind of odd to be texting about buying a gun 8 months after the fact, but that's JMO.

There still could be texts found through other phones owned by DM. People often assume texts are not as traceable as email...

 

[Carli]

"Police said that phone records revealed that one of the suspect’s had obtained a cellphone under a fake name three months ago, with most calls made in Toronto’s west end. That phone has not been used since Bosma’s disappearance."

Now that's interesting. Never really noticed that before. So who, in this parade of fools, lived or lives in Toronto's west end?

http://www.torontoneighbourhoods.net/neighbourhoods/west-end

Dufferin to Jane. The lake to St Clair Ave. And including High Park???? Wheee. Now this is different!!! MOO.

 

[Carli]

Well, if they go to that extreme for every Instagram and Facebook photo posted, I'm glad our LE is being kept busy and working hard. (You assume that every user only takes these photos in their own home?)

JMO

Absolutely. I was just thinking that with access to that Louis Vuitton machine gun and matching carrying case, a pair of Louboutin spikes and the ability to be relentlessly cheerful in an excruciatingly painful skinny thong, what else does an aspiring Canadian actress need? I mean forget the National Theatre School. These gals are on their way to the big time with up to one hundred one dollar bills falling like rain around them and pictures of their chubby bums broadcast around the world. Hopefully LE has taken time to interview all bevy members. They are, like, I'm like sure, like a fount of like, relevant info. Eh? MOO.