Wayne Millard: Dellen Millard Charged With Murder In The First Degree #1

[deugirtni]

I find that here at WS, they are pretty much *all* 'tough rooms'. The 2 words aren't a matter of grammar, they are 2 very different definitions:

Refuted means something has been 'proven' to be wrong, while unconfirmed means something hasn't been officially verified publicly by a law enforcement spokesperson in this case. I don't think of it as splitting hairs for those 2 words to be differentiated. MOO.

If I am to understand you when you say 'while this information has been widely repeated, I think you'll find a single earliest source', no, that is not how it looks to me. To me it looks like various sources and originating from more than one source, ie, "several police sources say, the wound that killed him was a gunshot to the eye" as in the quote I referred to above. The several police sources were obviously not authorized to make public statements regarding the investigation and so would not want to risk having their name attached for fear of reprisal. Often news media will have statements made to them by perfectly valid sources who are 'in the know', with an agreement that the conversation is 'off the record' for this very reason, and for obvious reasons the reporter will protect those sources' identities.

Imho, I'm pretty sure if anyone else was there that night with LE at the home of WM after his supposed suicide, that person, or those people, would also have been 'included' in the list of people present. There would be no reason to exclude them, would there?

"Refuted" vs "Unconfirmed". There I go, mixing up my past participles with my present perfect progressives again. This is a tough room. LOL MOO. IMHO. IMO. etc. Actually, while this information has been widely repeated, I think you'll find a single earliest source. Is that how it looks to you, too? Further on hair-splitting, didn't Abro report that those present at WM's death scene when the cops were on site "included" DM, his X, and his mom? Accordingly I suppose the caller could have included any of those or someone who had already left the scene or any one of the many unusually inquisitive neighbors who appear to live near or beside all Millard owned properties. IMO. MOO. IMHO. (And thank goodness for them, of course, IMO, IMHO. MOO. etc.)

 

[ABro]

I wish I could answer these questions about the hangar. It's always been a mystery to me why Wayne started this business for Dellen when Dellen didn't want it from the beginning and put an end to it as soon as he could. I've wondered if maybe there was a period in the middle where Dellen agreed to it, because of his engagement perhaps.

The ex-fiancee comes from a family with many accomplished people. They might not have been happy about her getting married to a rich unemployed dude who hung out with a bunch of losers. So maybe Dellen decided that the business made sense for a future husband. But then the wedding got called off and he didn't need it any more, and he was stuck.

The other possibility is that Wayne just pushed this through and never had his son's agreement. The question then becomes why, when he'd always let Dellen have his way before (he turned the family home into a frat house while spending millions on property for example) did Wayne go to the wall on this one -- especially when he wasn't a businessman himself and it was a risky venture?

Probably only Madeleine Burns could explain. Or possibly the ex-fiancee.

 

[Tamarind]

I find that here at WS, they are pretty much *all* 'tough rooms'. The 2 words aren't a matter of grammar, they are 2 very different definitions:

Refuted means something has been 'proven' to be wrong, while unconfirmed means something hasn't been officially verified publicly by a law enforcement spokesperson in this case. I don't think of it as splitting hairs for those 2 words to be differentiated. MOO.

If I am to understand you when you say 'while this information has been widely repeated, I think you'll find a single earliest source', no, that is not how it looks to me. To me it looks like various sources and originating from more than one source, ie, "several police sources say, the wound that killed him was a gunshot to the eye" as in the quote I referred to above. The several police sources were obviously not authorized to make public statements regarding the investigation and so would not want to risk having their name attached for fear of reprisal. Often news media will have statements made to them by perfectly valid sources who are 'in the know', with an agreement that the conversation is 'off the record' for this very reason, and for obvious reasons the reporter will protect those sources' identities.

Imho, I'm pretty sure if anyone else was there that night with LE at the home of WM after his supposed suicide, that person, or those people, would also have been 'included' in the list of people present. There would be no reason to exclude them, would there?

Full Definition of REFUTE
transitive verb
1
: to prove wrong by argument or evidence : show to be false or erroneous (deugirtnis choice of definition)
2
: to deny the truth or accuracy of <refuted the allegations>
&#8212; re·fut·able adjective
&#8212; re·fut·ably adverb
&#8212; re·fut·er noun

The word unconfirmed means the opposite of confirmed. Confirmed means:

con·firm
verb \k&#601;n-&#712;f&#601;rm\

: to state or show that (something) is true or correct

: to tell someone that something has definitely happened or is going to happen : to make (something) definite or official

: to make (something) stronger or more certain : to cause (someone) to believe (something) more strongly
Full Definition of CONFIRM
transitive verb
1
: to give approval to : ratify <confirm a treaty>
2
: to make firm or firmer : strengthen <confirm one's resolve>
3
: to administer the rite of confirmation to
4
: to give new assurance of the validity of : remove doubt about by authoritative act or indisputable fact <confirm a rumor> <confirm an order>
&#8212; con·firm·abil·i·ty noun
&#8212; con·firm·able adjective
See confirm defined for English-language learners »

In my opinion and backed by Merriam Webster above it would seem that the words refuted and unconfirmed mean

refute: 2: to deny the truth or accuracy of

unconfirm (based on being the opposite of confirm). confirm being: to make (something) stronger or more certain : to cause (someone) to believe (something) more strongly

So denying the truth or accuracy of ( disagreeing that something is as stated) as opposed to making something less likely to be certain ( not confirming that something that has been stated is less likely to be accurate) by agreeing or denouncing the truth of.

I can see the similarities, depending on which version of the dictionary definition you choose to rely on in your prose.

 

[Tamarind]

I wish I could answer these questions about the hangar. It's always been a mystery to me why Wayne started this business for Dellen when Dellen didn't want it from the beginning and put an end to it as soon as he could. I've wondered if maybe there was a period in the middle where Dellen agreed to it, because of his engagement perhaps.

Wayne apparently referred to it as "Dellens project", this would indicate, to me at least, that Dellen was on board with the idea/project.

The ex-fiancee comes from a family with many accomplished people. They might not have been happy about her getting married to a rich unemployed dude who hung out with a bunch of losers. So maybe Dellen decided that the business made sense for a future husband. But then the wedding got called off and he didn't need it any more, and he was stuck.

Being rich would have left the door open for Dellen to simply be an 'investor' as a profession in my opinion.

The other possibility is that Wayne just pushed this through and never had his son's agreement. The question then becomes why, when he'd always let Dellen have his way before (he turned the family home into a frat house while spending millions on property for example) did Wayne go to the wall on this one -- especially when he wasn't a businessman himself and it was a risky venture?

The fact that Dellen was in negotiations for the project, would indicate that Dellen was in agreement. I believe Wayne accompanied Dellen when Dellen went to view and subsequently purchase the farm. That would suggest that WM was also in agreement with Dellens choices at the time. It has also been stated that WM liked to drink, maybe WM enjoyed the company of the younger people and his son and had a drink or two with them as opposed to being a pushover who had his house turned into a 'frathouse' against his wishes. Business is often risky in my opinion, I think there was trouble in aviationland and the Millards were caught in the middle. Again in my opinion I think WM committed suicide due to many reasons, one being alcohol, which is a known depressive to an alcoholic, another being that the business that he wanted to succeed for his son was bottoming out due to whatever reason, but probably due in part to hiring the wrong guy to bring in business. Add to that the death of his girlfriend, grief adds to if not brings on depression. Add to that the overwhelming burden of a business that his father built up and which he knew he couldn't continue, this in my opinion could cause him to get depressed and feel inadequate. There are a lot of reasons here for WM to have been suffering from extreme depression and depression is known to be a strong precursor to suicide. I would also like to know which, if any, anti-depressants he was taking as many have the side effect of suicide.

Probably only Madeleine Burns could explain. Or possibly the ex-fiancee.

I think any expert in the field of depression or alcoholism would be helpful. IMHO

 

[Carli]

If I am to understand you when you say 'while this information has been widely repeated, I think you'll find a single earliest source', no, that is not how it looks to me. To me it looks like various sources and originating from more than one source, ie, "several police sources say, the wound that killed him was a gunshot to the eye" as in the quote I referred to above. The several police sources were obviously not authorized to make public statements regarding the investigation and so would not want to risk having their name attached for fear of reprisal. Often news media will have statements made to them by perfectly valid sources who are 'in the know', with an agreement that the conversation is 'off the record' for this very reason, and for obvious reasons the reporter will protect those sources' identities.

Hey, thanks for the English lesson. Up I definitely need to polish. Meanwhile I could be wrong but I think you'll find that the first MSM reference to the"gunshot to the eye" was Joe Warmington on May 16, 2013 writing for Sun News. He referred to a single unidentified officer's comment. Warmington was writing for the same tabloid on April 10, 2014, which then published the"several police sources" reiteration of the gunshot to the eye determination. IMO. IMHO. MOO. etc. I guess we might learn more from all those guys and gals at trial? Probably not. Nevertheless, in the meantime, I prefer to rely on Carbone's statement. IMO. IMHO. MOO. etc.

 

[ABro]

Hey, thanks for the English lesson. Up I definitely need to polish. Meanwhile I could be wrong but I think you'll find that the first MSM reference to the"gunshot to the eye" was Joe Warmington on May 16, 2013 writing for Sun News. He referred to a single unidentified officer's comment. Warmington was writing for the same tabloid on April 10, 2014, which then published the"several police sources" reiteration of the gunshot to the eye determination. IMO. IMHO. MOO. etc. I guess we might learn more from all those guys and gals at trial? Probably not. Nevertheless, in the meantime, I prefer to rely on Carbone's statement. IMO. IMHO. MOO. etc.

Not only was it the first reference to a shot in the eye, it was also the first reference to a death from unnatural causes so it looks like the source was on to something. And since we now know that an illegal gun was involved, JW's source seems more solid than ever.

Carbone, for the record, said nothing about the cause of death -- only that the original investigators did a really good job. With the passage of time, his statement is looking less and less accurate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwLgv3YhsTM

 

[deugirtni]

At one point I specifically recall reading that DM and the ex-fiancee was an 'arranged relationship', so at one point there a few years ago, DM must have been somewhat pliable, and if DM could handle a responsibility like the MRO, it would certainly be a respectable career. Is it possible that sometime around the breakup with his ex-fiance that DM became involved with these 'other types'?

I wish I could answer these questions about the hangar. It's always been a mystery to me why Wayne started this business for Dellen when Dellen didn't want it from the beginning and put an end to it as soon as he could. I've wondered if maybe there was a period in the middle where Dellen agreed to it, because of his engagement perhaps.

The ex-fiancee comes from a family with many accomplished people. They might not have been happy about her getting married to a rich unemployed dude who hung out with a bunch of losers. So maybe Dellen decided that the business made sense for a future husband. But then the wedding got called off and he didn't need it any more, and he was stuck.

The other possibility is that Wayne just pushed this through and never had his son's agreement. The question then becomes why, when he'd always let Dellen have his way before (he turned the family home into a frat house while spending millions on property for example) did Wayne go to the wall on this one -- especially when he wasn't a businessman himself and it was a risky venture?

Probably only Madeleine Burns could explain. Or possibly the ex-fiancee.

 

[deugirtni]

Can you show a reference where it has been stated by several sources that the gunshot wound was in a different location of WM's body?

Full Definition of REFUTE
transitive verb
1
: to prove wrong by argument or evidence : show to be false or erroneous (deugirtnis choice of definition)
2
: to deny the truth or accuracy of <refuted the allegations>
&#8212; re·fut·able adjective
&#8212; re·fut·ably adverb
&#8212; re·fut·er noun

The word unconfirmed means the opposite of confirmed. Confirmed means:

con·firm
verb \k&#601;n-&#712;f&#601;rm\

: to state or show that (something) is true or correct

: to tell someone that something has definitely happened or is going to happen : to make (something) definite or official

: to make (something) stronger or more certain : to cause (someone) to believe (something) more strongly
Full Definition of CONFIRM
transitive verb
1
: to give approval to : ratify <confirm a treaty>
2
: to make firm or firmer : strengthen <confirm one's resolve>
3
: to administer the rite of confirmation to
4
: to give new assurance of the validity of : remove doubt about by authoritative act or indisputable fact <confirm a rumor> <confirm an order>
&#8212; con·firm·abil·i·ty noun
&#8212; con·firm·able adjective
See confirm defined for English-language learners »

In my opinion and backed by Merriam Webster above it would seem that the words refuted and unconfirmed mean

refute: 2: to deny the truth or accuracy of

unconfirm (based on being the opposite of confirm). confirm being: to make (something) stronger or more certain : to cause (someone) to believe (something) more strongly

So denying the truth or accuracy of ( disagreeing that something is as stated) as opposed to making something less likely to be certain ( not confirming that something that has been stated is less likely to be accurate) by agreeing or denouncing the truth of.

I can see the similarities, depending on which version of the dictionary definition you choose to rely on in your prose.

 

[Alethea Dice]

At one point I specifically recall reading that DM and the ex-fiancee was an 'arranged relationship', so at one point there a few years ago, DM must have been somewhat pliable, and if DM could handle a responsibility like the MRO, it would certainly be a respectable career. Is it possible that sometime around the breakup with his ex-fiance that DM became involved with these 'other types'?

My understanding of that rumour was that the two mothers had set them up to meet. More like a blind date than an "arranged relationship".

JMO

 

[Tamarind]

Can you show a reference where it has been stated by several sources that the gunshot wound was in a different location of WM's body?

First I think we need to note the close proximity of the eye to the temple. The temple being the most usual point of entry for suicides by gun. If you position a gun or make a gun with a hand ie,/ point index and next finger to temple, then note that by automatic dropping of the hand the fingers then point at an angle that blows through the temple and exits out of the eye area, we may get some idea of why an eye may be blown out during a suicide by gun. It makes perfect sense to me that any blast to the temple and the possibility that a hand may drop slightly prior to or during blast or be blown back upon firing could result in the impact forcing through the temple area and carrying through the eye area. I base this on the anatomy of the skull area. JMO

 

[Alethea Dice]

Can you show a reference where it has been stated by several sources that the gunshot wound was in a different location of WM's body?

I don't see where Tamarind said he was shot in a different part of the body, but the original releases only said the left side of the head.

Wayne Millard was reportedly found with a gunshot wound to the left side of his head.

http://www.brantnews.com/news-story/4111002-police-continue-probe-of-millard-farm-in-relation-to-bosma-case/

Wayne Millard died of a gun shot to the head.

http://www.chch.com/bosma-accused-back-court-2/

Toronto police discovered his body, reportedly shot in the left side of his head, at his Etobicoke home in November 2012

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2014/04/10/suspect_in_tim_bosma_killing_charged_with_2_more_murders.html

Wayne Millard was reportedly killed by a shot to the head.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/4486045-bosma-case-big-hangar-bold-plan-total-disaster-/

Granted, I could see how a shot to the left side of the head could involve the eye.

JMO

 

[deugirtni]

Do you think any expert in depression or alcoholism would be helpful in determining why WM started the MRO business for DM?

I wish I could answer these questions about the hangar. It's always been a mystery to me why Wayne started this business for Dellen when Dellen didn't want it from the beginning and put an end to it as soon as he could. I've wondered if maybe there was a period in the middle where Dellen agreed to it, because of his engagement perhaps. .....

Probably only Madeleine Burns could explain. Or possibly the ex-fiancee.

Quote Originally Posted by ABro View Post
Probably only Madeleine Burns could explain. Or possibly the ex-fiancee.

I think any expert in the field of depression or alcoholism would be helpful. IMHO

 

[cansleuther]

Can you show a reference where it has been stated by several sources that the gunshot wound was in a different location of WM's body?

The Hamilton Spectator reported that WM was shot in the left side of his head:

Wayne Millard reportedly died of a gunshot to the left side of his head in November 2012.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/4457998-bosma-accused-killer-dellen-millard-charged-with-murdering-father/


This May 2013 article in the Metro News says the same thing:

Wayne Millard was reportedly found with a gunshot wound to the left side of his head.

http://metronews.ca/news/toronto/678712/police-investigating-bosma-murder-remove-excavator-from-millards-farm/


As well, references to WM being shot in the left side of his head can also be found in the Daily Mail, The Toronto Star, The Record, Inside Halton, The Cambridge Times, and all other newpapers under the Metroland Media group.

 

[Tamarind]

Do you think any expert in depression or alcoholism would be helpful in determining why WM started the MRO business for DM?

How do we know that WM started the MRO for Dellen? It says that WM said it was Dellen's project. This could well mean that Dellen started it, he could have had input from WM. I see no rationale for calling in an expert for depression and alcoholism to explain about the MRO ! Many judges and professionals not just airline pilots are prone to the odd tipple or two from my knowledge. Are you suggesting that alcoholics are incapable of holding down a job or of any rational thinking?

 

[deugirtni]

Yes agreed. So I wonder if when that relationship soured, or before that, that is when DM found he was enjoying hanging with the 'other types'. Or was it before he became involved with his ex-fiance, or during, or after, I wonder?

My understanding of that rumour was that the two mothers had set them up to meet. More like a blind date than an "arranged relationship".

JMO

 

[Alethea Dice]

Yes agreed. So I wonder if when that relationship soured, or before that, that is when DM found he was enjoying hanging with the 'other types'. Or was it before he became involved with his ex-fiance, or during, or after, I wonder?

That, to me, would be very interesting to know.

 

[matou]

The left eye is located in the left side of the head. But I`m sure that`s fairly obvious. JMO

 

[deugirtni]

Well let me tell you, I for one, will be very relieved if we find that the site of the gunshot blow to the head was NOT through the eye. I just find that repulsive to ME, and can't imagine a person actually doing that to 'himself'. I can imagine however, someone with a seeming interest in gunshot-to-eye, doing that to someone else. MOO.
The head does also include the eye however, as a matter of point, and so if an article might state 'left side of the head', that doesn't exclude the possibility that it was in fact the eye.
And if we cannot trust the police sources who HAVE said it was in the eye, then I suppose we have to wait for trial to find out for sure. That still leaves the rather rare (wasnt it 8% in the study I quoted several posts upstream?) shooting oneself on the opposite side of their own 'handedness', but that is *if* WM was in fact right handed. Does anyone happen to know WM's handedness?
And just as a note, newspapers will often use the same story, so, in my humble opinion, if we have an article where the reporter has actually spoken to an officer or other contact close to the case, even if unnamed, as opposed to just republishing a same story/facts, it carries more weight. MOO.

Just for the record I think you'll find that the whole "shot in the eye" thing has never been acknowledged by LE and has, in fact, been refuted several times. I'll provide copious links, if you need them, but, you know, Google is our friend. IMO. IMHO. MOO etc.

The Hamilton Spectator reported that WM was shot in the left side of his head:



http://www.thespec.com/news-story/4457998-bosma-accused-killer-dellen-millard-charged-with-murdering-father/


This May 2013 article in the Metro News says the same thing:



http://metronews.ca/news/toronto/678712/police-investigating-bosma-murder-remove-excavator-from-millards-farm/


As well, references to WM being shot in the left side of his head can also be found in the Daily Mail, The Toronto Star, The Record, Inside Halton, The Cambridge Times, and all other newpapers under the Metroland Media group.

 

[Carli]

Well let me tell you, I for one, will be very relieved if we find that the site of the shotgun blow to the head was NOT through the eye. I just find that repulsive to ME, and can't imagine a person actually doing that to 'himself'. I can imagine however, someone with a seeming interest in shotgun-to-eye, doing that to someone else. MOO.
The head does also include the eye however, as a matter of point, and so if an article might state 'left side of the head', that doesn't exclude the possibility that it was in fact the eye.
And if we cannot trust the police sources who HAVE said it was in the eye, then I suppose we have to wait for trial to find out for sure. That still leaves the rather rare (wasnt it 8% in the study I quoted several posts upstream?) shooting oneself on the opposite side of their own 'handedness', but that is *if* WM was in fact right handed. Does anyone happen to know WM's handedness?
And just as a note, newspapers will often use the same story, so, in my humble opinion, if we have an article where the reporter has actually spoken to an officer or other contact close to the case, even if unnamed, as opposed to just republishing a same story/facts, it carries more weight. MOO.

What shotgun? Is it now the consensus that those walking tattoo catalogues - the three matthews - deal in contraband shotguns??? What next? Given that long guns, including shot guns and pellet guns, while somewhat restricted, are legal in Canada, this trade must be quite challenging. (Incidentally, I gravely doubt that a shotgun blast to the eye would leave a tidy eye-socket entry - or temple entry, for that matter so I presume there's more to this story.)

 

[deugirtni]

BBM

How do we know that WM started the MRO for Dellen? It says that WM said it was Dellen's project. This could well mean that Dellen started it, he could have had input from WM.

WM said he 'wanted' it to be DM's project:

“Wayne said he wanted the new project to be Dellen’s project,” the pilot explained. “He wanted to build something substantial that would continue on.”

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/05/31/millard-aviation-business-in-decline-long-before-tim-bosma-murder-suspect-started-to-dismantle-it/

but yet, DM himself stated the below quoted text in the newspaper article also referenced below. If DM started it, wouldn't you agree it is unlikely that DM would have had the following to say?:

Prior to Wayne’s death, Millardair built the new multimillion dollar hangar to rejuvenate the business.

Left to manage that legacy, Millard says he turned his attention to the business — but not without resentment.

“I took it all pretty hard. It was a responsibility I didn’t want at that time. I was angry at (Wayne) for the things I had to do because he wasn’t there to do them.”

http://www.cambridgetimes.ca/news-s...dellen-millard-says-he-didn-t-kill-tim-bosma/

I see no rationale for calling in an expert for depression and alcoholism to explain about the MRO ! Many judges and professionals not just airline pilots are prone to the odd tipple or two from my knowledge. Are you suggesting that alcoholics are incapable of holding down a job or of any rational thinking?

No, I'm suggesting that ABro was internally wondering about why WM ever started the MRO business and suggesting that perhaps MB is the only one who really knows, when you Tamarind, responded directly to ABro's statement by bringing up the discussion regarding depression and alcoholism. See below.

Originally Posted by ABro View Post
I wish I could answer these questions about the hangar. It's always been a mystery to me why Wayne started this business for Dellen when Dellen didn't want it from the beginning and put an end to it as soon as he could. I've wondered if maybe there was a period in the middle where Dellen agreed to it, because of his engagement perhaps. .....

Probably only Madeleine Burns could explain. Or possibly the ex-fiancee.

Quote Originally Posted by Tamarind View Post

Quote Originally Posted by ABro View Post
Probably only Madeleine Burns could explain. Or possibly the ex-fiancee.

I think any expert in the field of depression or alcoholism would be helpful. IMHO