We are only dealing in facts and reasonable scenarios from now on

[andreww]

Hahaha! I’d deny it, too! And, trust me, I did not kill Jonbenet.
...

AK

So if you were innocent, you'd lie under oath?


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[andreww]

BBM Can you clarify?

Because that photo album handwriting was the best exemplar that LE had. Characters consistently matched the ransom note. It was obvious! Yet Patsy denies it being her writing and offers no explanation as to whose it might be. Anybody with half a brain can see that she is lying and draw their own conclusions from that.


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[inspector rex]

Is this the one you mean?

 

[andreww]

That's part of it.


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[Anti-K]

AK, I honestly respect you and your viewpoint. You are obviously a logical guy, well read and somebody that looks at all information. However, there are times when you simply avoid all logic and turn a blind eye to fact simply to perpetuate your long held stance. You have long said that Patsy's handwriting didn't match. You have repeatedly declared that six experts couldn't tie that note to Patsy. So why on gods earth would she feel the need to alter her handwriting, lie under oath and have their legal team threaten experts? Unlike most IDIs I think you are smarter than that. I far more respect someone that admits they might be wrong than someone that clings to a ridiculous notion until their last dying days simply because they don't want to admit they were wrong. There were plenty of people that believed in OJ at one point and nobody thinks any less of them now. However, somebody that still believes in his innocence to this day is... well, just sad.


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I don’t know that it is a fact that Mrs Ramsey consciously (or, otherwise) changed her handwriting, but I can see her doing so simply because so many people thought that she wrote the note. Under such circumstances, changing handwriting almost seems a sensible, even natural, thing to do.

Did her legal team threaten experts? Isn’t this the sort of thing that legal teams do? Isn’t this, too, a sensible, almost natural, thing for them to do?

As for lying under oath: I think this is one of those damned if you do damned if you don’t situations. But, sometimes, “I don’t remember, I’m not sure, I don’t” is the truth.
.

Andreww, I’ve never said that Mrs Ramsey’s handwriting wasn’t a match. Not once in all my years of posting. I’ve never made the comparison and no one is going to talk me into doing the comparison. You might as well ask me to match fibers or identify hairs – it’s just not going to happen. I do say that none of the credible experts (as determined by the Court) were able to identify Mrs Ramsay as the author. The opinion of other experts and amateur means virtually nothing to me, as would my own opinion if I were to arrive at one after doing my own comparison.

My repeated declaration that none of the six credible experts (as determined by the Court) were able to identify Mrs Ramsey as the author is simply a repeated declaration of a fact. It is a type of evidence. The opinion of others, Epstein, posters, etc is not evidence, and because it is not evidence I consider these opinions to be virtually meaningless.
...

AK

 

[OliviaG1996]

Here's a screenshot of the album from the previously posted video, so anyone who wants to view it doesn't have to go through the trouble of searching for it in the video:

 

[InstantProof]

Hahaha! I’d deny it, too! And, trust me, I did not kill Jonbenet.
...

AK

You would deny your handwriting in a family photo album? Why?

 

[andreww]

My repeated declaration that none of the six credible experts (as determined by the Court) were able to identify Mrs Ramsey as the author is simply a repeated declaration of a fact. It is a type of evidence. The opinion of others, Epstein, posters, etc is not evidence, and because it is not evidence I consider these opinions to be virtually meaningless.
...

AK

Thats actually pretty funny when you consider that very court wouldn't allow Epstein to identify her as the author.

 

[andreww]

Did her legal team threaten experts? Isn’t this the sort of thing that legal teams do? Isn’t this, too, a sensible, almost natural, thing for them to do?
AK

Thats what sleazy lawyers do. IMO, threatening people with lawsuits for telling the truth in a court of law is a step over the line.

 

[andreww]

I don’t know that it is a fact that Mrs Ramsey consciously (or, otherwise) changed her handwriting, but I can see her doing so simply because so many people thought that she wrote the note. Under such circumstances, changing handwriting almost seems a sensible, even natural, thing to do.

AK

Trust me, its a fact. And why would she have to change it given that she, John, her legal team, and her supposed experts all claimed that her handwriting didn't match the note? If it didn't, why change?

 

[Mama2JML]

Trust me, its a fact. And why would she have to change it given that she, John, her legal team, and her supposed experts all claimed that her handwriting didn't match the note? If it didn't, why change?

Why begin with the presumption that PR changed her handwriting? Explain how you have determined this to be fact. What reliable evidence and scientifically valid experts' analyses have caused you to determine alternative presumptions to be implausible? (i.e. PR did not/may not have changed her handwriting, the findings are inconclusive, insufficient evidence to determine, immeasurable, etc.)

 

[andreww]

Why begin with the presumption that PR changed her handwriting? Explain how you have determined this to be fact. What reliable evidence and scientifically valid experts' analyses have caused you to determine alternative presumptions PR did not/may not have changed her handwriting, the findings are inconclusive, insufficient evidence to determine, immeasurable, etc.)
to be implausible?

I did a series of comparisons to pre and post writings that showed she altered her writing. They were posted and the IDIs were strangely silent about them. As I recall, in documents of any length, every character I examined started out completely different from the RN. The longer she wrote the more every letter began to resemble the characters from the RN. Not once did a character change in the other direction.

I know you saw it and I know you are aware Thomas noticed it as well. You are also probably aware that she started typing notes to school, so let's not play dumb okay?


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[Mama2JML]

I did a series of comparisons to pre and post writings that showed she altered her writing. They were posted and the IDIs were strangely silent about them. As I recall, in documents of any length, every character I examined started out completely different from the RN. The longer she wrote the more every letter began to resemble the characters from the RN. Not once did a character change in the other direction.

I know you saw it and I know you are aware Thomas noticed it as well. You are also probably aware that she started typing notes to school, so let's not play dumb okay?


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Could you bump the series of posts to which you refer or provide links, please? I am certain I have responded to similar claims, but perhaps not yours. I am aware of what Thomas wrote, AND I am aware of how he testified under oath. Should we put all our faith in the opinion of ST, or might we also consider other LEOs, experts, witnesses, etc. involved in the investigation?

My opinion is this:

Considering the length of the ransom note, the many dictated samples PR provided LE, the numerous historical exemplars available to the 6 (court qualified) experts consulted by LE, I see no reason to presume either the affirmative or the negative regarding changes in penmanship.

(BTW, I'd rather be accused of playing dumb than of being just plain dumb.)

 

[InstantProof]

If you don't think she wrote the RN, then how do you explain the writing in the family photo album that John and Patsy will not or can not identify?

 

[BOESP]

An old link that might be of interest; it concerns comments made about the ransom note by the late Robert Ressler:

http://www.corpus-delicti.com/ressler_jbr.html

 

[Muy Curioso]

For now, I will no longer write in Jonbenet forums. To decide if it is something provisional or definitive, I will wait to see what Tricia have thought, and the new rules. But I'm pretty pessimistic, and I fear that this will be my last post here.

By the words of the owner, I do not think she is thinking on a space for free debate, but in a supervised discussion, in which one side has absolute freedom to propose, argue and even accuse children of murder, while the other will always subject to the tolerance of the first. In this case, the owner is a great supporter of one side, and at same time is the judge. Bad mixture.

Of course, it is Tricia forum and she has the right to organize as she wants. But I want to write freely and free debate, without the constant risk of my posts being erased if the manager or some people do not like them.

By the way, Tricia, I have requested my posts in the deleted thread, as you told me to do, and have had no response.

There are many, many interesting threads in Websleuths, and I will focus on them. Regarding the JonBenet case, I will write and will debate on other forums or privately. People who have been interested in my views on the case and want to exchange impressions, they can send me a private.

My work on the ransom note is unrestricted and for free use. All I ask is that no one takes ownership of it

If I'm wrong, which I often do, and the forum becomes a place for free debate, I'll be happy to return. But I doubt.

Good luck everyone.

 

[BBB167893]

If a jury saw PR denying her own handwriting in her family photo album, I think they would have come to the conclusion that she wrote the RN.
If she did not write the RN;
-How do you not recognize your own handwriting?
-If PR did not caption her kids photos in the photo album, who did? Why is this handwriting so similar to the RN? Are the R's not concerned about this strange situation?

I think the last place PR wanted to be was the witness stand.

 

[Mama2JML]

I think the last place PR wanted to be was the witness stand.

Where did Wolf's counsel obtain this supposed "historical exemplar"?...

 

[BBB167893]

BBM Can you clarify?

[video=youtube;yl5Ll3sLFs8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yl5Ll3sLFs8[/video]

Specifically, start at the 9:30 mark.

 

[ElleElle]

OT:

I still find it odd:

1. The kidnapping occurred during the early morning hours of Christmas day. Could it have been planned that way thinking there would be a lack of LE.

2. Did Patsy always wake up that earlyÉ (Sorry my keyboard is not working)