What are the FACTS we KNOW are true?

[Ivy]

Bill "Santa" McReynolds wrote a card to JonBenet, which was found in her wastebasket after the murder. His handwriting didn't match the writing in the fake ransom note, and Judge Carnes didn't believe the ransom note writer had tried to disguise his/her handwriting.

imo

 

[tezi]

I forget exactly which friends were with JR when he sort of headed for the hills, but they must have been saying he should never have allowed something or other, because he reportedly kept saying, "I'm so sorry." Wasn't FW one of them? Father Rol maybe?

They may have been looking for the campsite of one of the pagan groups that I read somewhere regularly have ceremonies. You never know.

I believe John took his walk with Dr. Beuf and John's brother Jeff.

 

[Ivy]

1999 February 18
Lawrence Schillers book,
"Perfect Murder, Perfect Town

Page 21:

"The victim advocates, who had gone with them to the Fernies', left at 5:00 P.M. Shortly afterward, Detective Arndt left too. One patrol officer was left behind for security.

Michael Bynum, John Ramsey's close friend and corporate attorney, who had been away snowshoeing, now arrived at the Fernies' house. As he walked in, the family was kneeling in the living room praying with Rev. Hoverstock. Around 7:00 P.M. John Ramsey went for a walk with John Fernie and Dr. Francesco Beuf, JonBenet's physcian, who had brought over some medication for Patsy. When they returned a half hour later, Ramsey asked Bynum to represent him.

"'I'm sorry, I'm so sorry,' Ramsey told his friends over and over. Then just after 8:00 P.M., he left alone to take a walk in the nearby foothills."

http://www.acandyrose.com/crimescene-morning.htm

 

[sissi]

This was heard and repeated by?

On the subject of the santa note,you are saying the note found in the trash can was a note written by McReynold's???

 

[Ivy]

sissi, as noted in my post, the John Takes Two Walks story came from PMPT. I've never heard that anyone present refuted it, including the Ramseys.

Regarding a card Bill McReynolds wrote to JonBenet, the info can be found on page 30 of Judge Carnes's order in Wolf vs Ramsey:

Another purported lead was Bill McReynolds, who portrayed Santa Claus at a Christmas Party at defendants' home in December 1996, whose wife had written a play about a young girl held captive in a basement, whose daughter had been kidnapped and sexually assaulted twenty-two years to the day before JonBenet's death, and who had written a card to JonBenet that was found in her trash can after the murder.

 

[sissi]

Very well, if that is the case it makes the "ole" santa a bit more interesting!
I was under the impression (from the warrant) the note was a "letter to santa".
Interesting ,as well, that the contents have never been made public. I wonder why not?
Thanks Ivy, for sourcing your information!

 

[sissi]

from same report...btw...page 21
During the investigation, the Boulder Police Department and Boulder County District Attorney's Office consulted at least six handwriting experts. (SMF 1 191; PSMF 1 191.) All of these experts consulted the original Ransom Note and original handwriting exemplars from Mrs. Ramsey. (SMF 205; PSMF , 205.) Four of these experts were hired by the police and two were hired by defendants. (SMF , 191; PSMF , 191.) All six experts agreed that Mr. Ramsey could be eliminated as the author of the Ransom Note. (SMF 194; PSMF 194.) None of the six consulted experts identified Mrs. Ramsey as the author of the Ransom Note. (SMF 195; PSMF 195.) Rather, the experts' consensus was that she "probably did not" write the Ransom Note. (SMF , 196; PSMF 196.)14 On a scale of one to five, with five being elimination as................

 

[Ivy]

sissi, do you happen to know who the "six consulted experts" were whose consensus it was that Patsy didn't write the note? I'd like to learn the details behind that particular statement in Carnes's order. So much of the information contained in Carnes's order is wrong, because she didn't have access to the police files and had only the info given her by Lin Wood and the Ramseys. Since Carnes was wrong about a lot of things, I am not even sure the Santa card was a card and not a note or a letter or something else. Oh well...the important thing about it is that Santa's handwriting on it didn't match the ransom note.

imo

 

[Ivy]

David Liebman, former president of the National Association of Document Examiners, and Gideon Epstein, director of the forensics unit of the documents lab at the Immigration and Naturalization Service until he retired in 2000, are absolutely certain that Patsy wrote the note.

That speaks volumes. Liebman and Epstein are not ordinary, run-of-the-mill "experts."

imo

 

[Ivy]

Here's an article worth reading about Judge Carnes and what little she knew about the JonBenet case when she threw out the Wolf vs Ramsey lawsuit:

http://www.crimemagazine.com/solvingjbr-carnes.htm

imo

 

[kimba]

Bill "Santa" McReynolds wrote a card to JonBenet, which was found in her wastebasket after the murder. His handwriting didn't match the writing in the fake ransom note, and Judge Carnes didn't believe the ransom note writer had tried to disguise his/her handwriting.

imo

The hand writing is off. Judge Carnes, if this is true, is not qualified to judge a handwriting specimen unless she has been board certified to do so. I seriously doubt that Judges are in the practice of becoming board certified handwriting experts.

Please respond.... What was in the note that McReynolds wrote to her, and why do you think that his writing did not match. Where did you get that info.

 

[Ivy]

Who said Carnes examined the handwriting? Handwriting experts examined it, not her. Bill McReynolds gave a handwriting sample to LE, and it did not match the handwriting in the ransom note, any more than his handwriting on the card to JonBenet did. What he'd written on that card hasn't been made public as far as I know.

Here's a link to an article containing some of the handwriting info:

http://www.crimemagazine.com/jonbenet.htm

Why not do your own research? A good place to start on the net would be ACandyRose's website. Also, Schiller's book on the case, Perfect Murder, Perfect Town would be worthwhile reading.

imo

 

[kimba]

Bill "Santa" McReynolds wrote a card to JonBenet, which was found in her wastebasket after the murder. His handwriting didn't match the writing in the fake ransom note, and Judge Carnes didn't believe the ransom note writer had tried to disguise his/her handwriting.

imo

Why would a judge even pretend to take on the role of a handwriting expert. I don't care if she's Sandra Day O'Connor, there must be more meat to this statement. Where did you get that Bill's handwriting wasn't a match. You see, Patsy's is not officially a match either, but it has been stated that others where closer in match than hers.

 

[Ivy]

If you had followed the link I provided above, you would know why McReynolds was quickly excluded as the ransom note writer. You would also have learned why Patsy was not excluded.

Patsy's handwriting exemplars:

http://www.acandyrose.com/02182003dh911motion.pdf

By the way, no one's handwriting was a closer match than Patsy's, despite what the Ramsey Spin Team says.

 

[kimba]

If you had followed the link I provided above, you would know why McReynolds was quickly excluded as the ransom note writer. You would also have learned why Patsy was not excluded.

Patsy's handwriting exemplars:

http://www.acandyrose.com/02182003dh911motion.pdf

By the way, no one's handwriting was a closer match than Patsy's, despite what the Ramsey Spin Team says.

Thanks for showing me that site. A very nice lettering up of the hand writing. Yet, not so convinced. I like the match on "follow" and thats about it. But, I will say I was impressed for 1 minute. It does initially look like something. That is an impressive line up of the handwriting. Please pick one you find the most immpressive and let me look at it and debate it.

 

[BlueCrab]

By the way, no one's handwriting was a closer match than Patsy's, despite what the Ramsey Spin Team says.

Ivy, we don't know that. Many others' handwritings could have been and probably were closer than Patsy's handwriting, including Burke's handwriting. Patsy was very close to being eliminated as the writer.

From the police warrant to search the Ramseys house in Charlevoix, the Daily Camera reported on 11/22/97:

"Handwriting analyses conducted prior to the March search revealed John Ramsey did not write the ransom note, that it was "probable" Burke did not write the note and possible that Patsy wrote it, according to documents released Friday."

No one of authority will comment on the strange description of Burke's handwriting analysis as being "probable" that he did not write it. Why didn't they come right out and say Burke did not write it, just as they said John did not write it? The only possible answer, of course, is that Burke could not be eliminated as the writer.

JMO

 

[Ivy]

BC...

"probable" that Burke didn't write the note means that it is not likely he did.

"possible" that Patsy wrote it means she very well could have written it.

David Liebman, former president of the National Association of Document Examiners, and Gideon Epstein, director of the forensics unit of the documents lab at the Immigration and Naturalization Service until he retired in 2000, are absolutely certain that Patsy wrote the note. I'd say these two experts qualify as people in authority who have disqualified Burke as the writer.

Btw, I'm very thankful you survived the hurricane, BlueCrab! Whew!

imo

 

[sissi]

Just my 2 cents!
The word "think" tells much about the way the ransom note writer and Patsy are dissimilar. It is automatic, even if one is trying hard to disguise his writing, to connect letters in certain ways, to use a vertical line...then cross the t connecting to the h is the way Patsy wrote it ..to connect the letters t and h using an upslope is the way the ransom note writer and most people writing cursive do write it. I am of the opinion that Patsy did not write the note.

 

[TLynn]

What about Mrs. McReynolds. Did she have her handwriting analyzed?

 

[sissi]

What about Mrs. McReynolds. Did she have her handwriting analyzed?

There are people under the impression (right or wrong) that Patsy was called back for many samples because hers were so similar they deserved farther investigation. This holds ,even in the light of statements given by detectives at the time,that Patsy was far too medicated to provide a decent sample the first three times she was called on to do so.

I believe, had Patsy's or John's been nearly a close match, there would have been no reason to ask for samples from the McReynolds,(which if I recall were secured after their return from Spain),or from McElroy ,13 months after the murder, or from anyone else. Glenn Myers, gave a second sample,why is this? Why ,if there were "two" donors of dna couldn't Barnhill be exluded? (thought of this when thinking of Myers sorry off topic a bit)