weekend break: discuss the latest here #123

[Pink Panther]

I'm too scared to post! I get a little ornery .... Especially at night. I can not survive a timeout on Monday! I suffered too long waiting in near silence for Juan to rip this witness from limb to limb to miss it!


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((((hugs))))) shhh...It's ok. We're here. Post delicately. We can all read between the lines. You're good!

: )

 

[thefragile7393]

Selling forged info to tabloids (or trying to), selling artwork of a killer and even the disrespect she shows to the court is enough for me to dislike her. I could never stop loving my child either, but if one of mine killed an innocent person, I can't see me being a support in any way other than love. But that's just the way that I would feel and I realize that we are all different.

I would love to see hard evidence that she ever tried this. All i ever saw were possible quotes from dubious sources.

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[Pink Panther]

I think the dope even wrote in her journal that she was looking forward to continuing to see the 1000 places, but that they should remain non-physical. As if that makes any kind of sense.

I think the 1000 places was a HUGE trigger for her. More so than who he was taking to Cancun. There were a few of the 1000 in/around Cancun...

moo

 

[mck16]

My husband and I differ on the fact that this is THE biggest circus trial I have ever seen. He says that OJ was worse. Has anyone ever seen a bigger cluster trial than this?

I was just about to post the same comment. They are all in it together. It is a huge cluster and what is bad is that they will all go down together. RS has felt the repurcussions and I think ALV will also. jmo

 

[simlyme]

I'm working on a project for WS, but took a break outside. There was a flock of birds flying over our field in an almost perfect "V". I say "almost", because out of the hundreds of birds in formation, there were six or seven flapping their little hearts out, but they just couldn't keep up.
As I watched, the flock slowed down, and ended in in almost a straight line rather than the "V" they once were. One by one, they opened a spot for the stragglers, formed a "V" once again, and flew off.

It reminded me of WS. Of how we share information, catch some of the stragglers up to speed, encourage the ones that are loosing faith, fit everyone into our group, and move on together.
This probably sounds corny, but it's what I thought of when I watched the birds with my grateful heart for WS.


ok - back to work on my project. BBL

Thank you so much for this, it reminded me of something I had read about 15 years ago,but, couldnt remember how it went,exactly, I googled for it and found it, its almost like a poem,maybe called something else, anyways I'll post it for all to read. Enjoy!

LESSONS FROM GEESE

by Milton Olson, adapted by Angeles Arrien



FACT 1

As each goose flaps its wings it creates an "uplift" for the birds that follow. By flying in a "V" formation, the whole flock adds 71% greater flying range than if each bird flew alone.

LESSON

People who share a common direction and sense of community can get where they are going quicker and easier because they are traveling on the thrust of one another.

FACT 2

When a goose falls out of formation, it suddenly feels the drag and resistance of flying alone. It quickly moves back into formation to take advantage of the lifting power of the bird immediately in front of it.

LESSON

If we have as much sense as a goose we stay in formation with those headed where we want to go. We are willing to accept their help and give our help to others.

FACT 3

When the lead goose tires, it rotates back into the formation and another goose flies to the point position.

LESSON

It pays to take turns doing the hard tasks and sharing leadership. As with geese, people are interdependent on each other's skills, capabilities and unique arrangements of gifts, talents or resources.

FACT 4

The geese flying in formation honk to encourage those up front to keep up their speed.

LESSON

We need to make sure our honking is encouraging. In groups where there is encouragement, the production is much greater. The power of encouragement (to stand by one's heart or core values and encourage the heart and core of others) is the quality of honking we seek.

FACT 5

When a goose gets sick, wounded or shot down, two geese drop out of formation and follow it down to help and protect it. They stay with it until it dies or is able to fly again. Then, they launch out with another formation or catch up with the flock.

LESSON

If we have as much sense as geese, we will stand by each other in difficult times as well as when we are strong.

 

[Rocco]

Not an atty again.

I believe AZ has a 2 year period to file a civil suit after an event--that's passed. But on the previous page, a Statute was shown that this is extended to 1-year after a criminal case is concluded--regardless of the verdict.

Now even though JA may be penniless now, perhaps she could accrue big $$ from interviews, articles, book etc. Even if she is on death row, that could be for many years.

I do not know if anyone has found out if AZ has a son-of-Sam type law barring convictee from keeping profits resulting from writings about her crime?

That seems to be the key element now. JA could even get around that perhaps. Say e.g. she claims--as OJ did--to write a work of fiction and not about the crime, or write about her current life in jail. Thus it would not be about the actual murder. A publsher might still pay her well as people might buy the book or tune in to her interview.

If AZ does not have a son of Sam law,TA family should sue. ANd perhaps they should even if AZ does, for the above reasons.

I believe that if JA is convicted the civil suit then becomes easy and short and would only need to be about the amount the jury will decide. MOO

I think someone from AZ posted earlier that AZ does have the Son of Sam law.

 

[atthelake]

Katie said ALV approached Samantha after court was over. What in the world could she have to say to Travis's sister? If that is not allowed, I wonder what the consequences will be?

Well they certainly couldn't put her in jail! For what she did. Because that way there would have been a mistrial! If she could not continue her testimony. I think all they did was a censor and then move on.

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[norest4thewicked]

I would love to see hard evidence that she ever tried this. All i ever saw were possible quotes from dubious sources.

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I haven't seen hard evidence either, but, if it acts like a duck....

Her selling the artwork on Ebay makes me believe that the strong possibility is there....

 

[Pink Panther]

:therethere:

One person's complaint is another's opinion.

Yeah. I thought she was lame. She pressed all the "wrong" buttons and got virtually nothing out of her.

moo

 

[shane13]

My husband and I differ on the fact that this is THE biggest circus trial I have ever seen. He says that OJ was worse. Has anyone ever seen a bigger cluster trial than this?

OJ was vastly bigger!

IIRC crime even stopped when verdict was being given, and even was it the President was watching the verdict, etc . Hell they say half the country was tuned in to the slow speed chase before trial ever began.

This pales in comparison. MOO

 

[Linda7NJ]

My husband and I differ on the fact that this is THE biggest circus trial I have ever seen. He says that OJ was worse. Has anyone ever seen a bigger cluster trial than this?

Michael Jackson.

 

[AlanCFA]

I understand what you're saying about JM attempting to engineer people into a tight box with some of the questioning -- but he doesn't do it with every question. The problem, in my view, is that when witnesses like these are trying to guess his strategy rather than simply answering, they become constantly obfuscative and combative. If they would choose their battles more wisely -- such as in the instances you've highlighted here, where a closed answer would be inadequate -- the jury would view them much more favorably in my estimation.
:cow:

Thank you, Sleuth5 and AppleJack for a thoughtful discussion. You have both made very good points and it is refreshing to read your thoughts on JM and various witnesses.

I vastly prefer it to the shrill cry that every witness should answer yes or no and never elaborate. That approach reminds me of the clichés from some B-Westerns "We're gonna give you a a fair trial. Then we're gonna hang you."

 

[Sleuth5]

But if the DT can get one or tow jurors on their side, they might hold out for the lesser offenses. If she gets convicted of murder 2 or worse, manslaughter, she could be out in a couple of years, with time served already being so long.

I'd agree with you Katydid, but only if we could expect the majority to be leaning toward second degree. In this case, I'm betting the majority will be leaning to first -- and those who have made that decision in this case with this evidence are not going to compromise to second. We all know that you need to either swallow the whole line here or nothing -- that's as simple a choice as there is. They'd have to believe he was "abusive", and even if they wanted to ignore the "self-defense" fantasy, still come to a conclusion that she did not premeditate in light of the voluminous evidence to the contrary.

The problem as I see it is that those who don't believe that can argue from a position of supported strength and will simply not back down. I suppose a hung jury could be possible -- but this isn't one of those cases where you need to haggle over "reasonable doubt", whether legally defined or, as we all know happens too often, as applied in the minds of jurors who are determined to decide what constitutes "reasonableness" for themselves. Instead, there are two paths -- one supported by evidence, and one entirely based on the fantasies of a proven and admitted liar (and perjurer, as I think will be shown eventually). I can't see that deliberation swaying anyone who begins with a first-degree mindset away from that path.

Naturally, my theory is worthless if the majority comes in with the contrary balance -- but in that case I would be willing to guarantee a hung jury for the same reasons I've given.

:cow:

 

[Mellinyce]

Thank you so much for this, it reminded me of something I had read about 15 years ago,but, couldnt remember how it went,exactly, I googled for it and found it, its almost like a poem,maybe called something else, anyways I'll post it for all to read. Enjoy!

LESSONS FROM GEESE

by Milton Olson, adapted by Angeles Arrien



FACT 1

As each goose flaps its wings it creates an "uplift" for the birds that follow. By flying in a "V" formation, the whole flock adds 71% greater flying range than if each bird flew alone.

LESSON

People who share a common direction and sense of community can get where they are going quicker and easier because they are traveling on the thrust of one another.

FACT 2

When a goose falls out of formation, it suddenly feels the drag and resistance of flying alone. It quickly moves back into formation to take advantage of the lifting power of the bird immediately in front of it.

LESSON

If we have as much sense as a goose we stay in formation with those headed where we want to go. We are willing to accept their help and give our help to others.

FACT 3

When the lead goose tires, it rotates back into the formation and another goose flies to the point position.

LESSON

It pays to take turns doing the hard tasks and sharing leadership. As with geese, people are interdependent on each other's skills, capabilities and unique arrangements of gifts, talents or resources.

FACT 4

The geese flying in formation honk to encourage those up front to keep up their speed.

LESSON

We need to make sure our honking is encouraging. In groups where there is encouragement, the production is much greater. The power of encouragement (to stand by one's heart or core values and encourage the heart and core of others) is the quality of honking we seek.

FACT 5

When a goose gets sick, wounded or shot down, two geese drop out of formation and follow it down to help and protect it. They stay with it until it dies or is able to fly again. Then, they launch out with another formation or catch up with the flock.

LESSON

If we have as much sense as geese, we will stand by each other in difficult times as well as when we are strong.

SWEET! Me likes it LOTS! TY =D

 

[shane13]

I think someone from AZ posted earlier that AZ does have the Son of Sam law.

Thank you.
Well I saw someone say if convicted and so on, and that post did not cite a son of sam law, but 've been away for a while. And I will look online.

But even so, I think it could be cleverly gotten around, especially given 1st amendment. But not an atty, so MOO.

 

[norest4thewicked]

OJ was vastly bigger!

IIRC crime even stopped when verdict was being given, and even was it the President was watching the verdict, etc . Hell they say half the country was tuned in to the slow speed chase before trial ever began.

This pales in comparison. MOO

I didn't say it was larger than any other trial....I just think it's a bigger circus. They have a DT who acts like clowns, witnesses who look like clowns (Gus, Samuels) and experts who are bigger jokes than clowns. That's all I am saying...:floorlaugh:

 

[SuperTmo]

THAT was worthy of "World's Dumbest Criminals". Especially since she is a so-called "professional" photographer.

:floorlaugh:

I think the only time JA has EVER been honest in that courtroom was when she was answering Jury questions and one of them was something like, "why did the camera end up in the washing machine" or "why did you put the camera in the washing machine." Something like that. She looked really puzzled and responded like, "I really don't know how that happened. I'm not sure why I'd do that."

I think when she drove off into the fog, she flipped her lid when she discovered that the camera wasn't in her car...

 

[atthelake]

((((hugs))))) shhh...It's ok. We're here. Post delicately. We can all read between the lines. You're good!

: )

There were six people " on vacation" in the last two days, but I know at least one who is back from vacation! so perhaps vacations are short, I know what you mean about Monday! I was on a five day vacation in the Casey Anthony trial at the worst possible time they could have given me one.


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[Linda7NJ]

Thank you, Sleuth5 and AppleJack for a thoughtful discussion. You have both made very good points and it is refreshing to read your thoughts on JM and various witnesses.

I vastly prefer it to the shrill cry that every witness should answer yes or no and never elaborate. That approach reminds me of the clichés from some B-Westerns "We're gonna give you a a fair trial. Then we're gonna hang you."

But in the end...the question can always be answered yes or no. This woman is taking it personally and it shows her IMO lack of professionalism. I also think she was poorly prepped. It's up to the defense to rehabilitate her testimony and extrapolate lengthy answers.

 

[AuburnSchnauzer]

I think the only time JA has EVER been honest in that courtroom was when she was answering Jury questions and one of them was something like, "why did the camera end up in the washing machine" or "why did you put the camera in the washing machine." Something like that. She looked really puzzled and responded like, "I really don't know how that happened. I'm not sure why I'd do that."

I think when she drove off into the fog, she flipped her lid when she discovered that the camera wasn't in her car...

The juror question to Jodi asking if she would admit to killing Travis if she wasn't arrested - And JA thought about that for awhile and responded, "I really don't know how to answer that" told me she had absolutely NO REMORSE. I just hope the entire jury got the same thing out of her response.