weekend discussion: discuss the trial here #154

[JRS_JD2L]

Don't worry - what goes around, comes around. I do have a question, though. Not that this is the case, necessarily, but if Nurmi suddenly realized, "Hey, Jodi is totally guilty," could he be excused from the case? I'm not a legal eagle, by any means, so TIA for any input. :websleuther:

The question is not whether he thinks his client his guilty, but rather, whether JA is still maintaining her innocence. The ABA rules forbid the lawyer from offering evidence that the lawyer knows to be false. If perjury has already occurred, the lawyer “shall take reasonable remedial measures, including, if necessary, disclosure to the tribunal” even though the lawyer learned of the perjury from a confidential communication.

So, it would be almost impossible at this point for Nurmi to be removed from representing her, unless she actually told Nurmi that she lied during her testimony. The fact that Nurmi believes she is guilty would not be enough. My guess is that both he, and Wilmott, do not believe she is innocent, but their job at this point is to vigorously defend her to mitigate her sentence.

 

[swedie]

Sorry if this has already been posted. So well made and just wanted to share. Very eerie and brilliant.

Jodi Arias Trial: Justice for Travis - YouTube

 

[GoAskAllie]

I have been wanting to bring this up. I do NOT believe it was an engagement ring at all. It was the CTR ring. I am an exmormon, and I used to wear one in my faithful days. They come in various metals and styles, but overall they are pretty cheap. Mine was like 17 bucks! CTR is an acronym for "Choose the Right (way)." It's Mormon jargon, and there is a popular LDS hymn called "Choose the Right." Most young LDS wear a CTR ring to remind them to remember to keep their baptismal commandments. They usually ditch the ring once they are married. I always found it strange that Travis would wear it considering he was....(I hope I don't get a lot of backlash)...screwing Jodi. That's the sin next to murder in Mormon doctrine. I figured he wore it to keep up his virginal appearances (again, not knocking him at all!). I guess what I want to say is....CTR rings are inexpensive novelty jewelry for Mormons. The media just wants to sensationalize it by saying it was an engagement ring. :violin:

Thanks for filling in more blanks about CTR rings in general. Whatever that ring meant to Travis or value he attached to it had nothing to do with its dollar value. Maybe it was a gift from his Grandmother or someone else who made a difference in his life. Maybe it symbolized his ongoing struggle to keep his baptismal commandments. Maybe he'd just had enough of Jodi's sick and twisted games.

 

[mollyf]

Remember though - Detective Flores confirmed that the memory card from the camera had been wiped clean. The images were recovered and enhanced by the crime lab. Looking back at the interrogation video, I think she was genuinely shocked when Det. Flores told her he had photos of her there...on that day. She really thought she had deleted all the photos so I'm not sure she was all that worried about the camera.

BBM
My understanding is that the card contained images that Travis had taken with his new camera before JA ever got there. Only the images from JA's visit had been deleted. That's partly how they knew that the images had been deleted one at a time, a multi-step process to delete each one. It's much faster to erase the whole disk, even to reformat it.

ETA: If this is incorrect, I 'd like to review testimony that said that the whole SD card had been erased. I'm finding it difficult to keep track of the actual testimony on some points and I want my own notes to be accurate. Thanks in advance.

 

[aa9511]

Rewatching Darryl's testimony.


Here he starts getting really squirrelly. Acting like he can't remember if she called him in May 2008. Then whispers 'yes' that she said she was going to Mesa.

Then he turns right around and says she never said she was going to Mesa.

LIAR!

He reads the depo he gave to the defense, and still denies what he said before.

He denies she called him between 9 and 10 on June 3rd 2008 after she had left after breakfast.

Does not recall her returning. Now he recalls her giving him the remote control!

Such a liar. Why would he lie for her? IMO, he knows a lot more than he is admitting to.

DB again denies she ever said Mesa.

(resp. snipped)

Yes! The whole part about Mesa/Arizona was very shady. Juan suggested he had said Mesa, and then remember he had also told LaViolette Mesa But in his testimony he said something like Arizona/Grand Canyon, but made sure to say it was not Mesa. I don't know exactly what Jodi told him before the trip, but I think she knew she had to say somewhere in Arizona because on her and Darryl's trips they only took gas cans when they were going to the desert. So, if she had said I need them for my trip to Utah...then he would have started questioning her as to why she needed them to go there. In any case, he did acknowledge Arizona, so that goes against everything Jodi said b/c didn't she say she didn't "know" she was going to Travis' house until like Pasadena or something, way after she got the cans from Darryl.

 

[deedee21]

Excellent post and I'm so glad you made it because I found the whole "engagement ring" story very confusing. Frankly it didn't add up. However, I let my fingers do the walking to Google, and it turns out that a ring with the letters "CTR" on it is often worn by members of the LDS Church as a reminder of the "Choose the Right" motto, and as a symbol of their religious affiliation. This "ring" story makes a lot more sense. I can see Travis being VERY ANGRY and UPSET if he learned that it was Jodi who stole his CTR ring. He probably tore his hair out looking for his ring and she could have fed the drama. Maybe she took it when she stayed at his place before the move back to Yreka. Who knows.

One of the many unanswered questions of the case for me is why Travis agreed to let her come to his home after everything that was said in the May 26 text exchange. However if Jodi admitted that she took it, apologized and "offered" to return it to him on her way to Utah, then I can see why he'd agree to see her before his trip to Cancun.

I dont think Travis knew she was going to his house.

 

[Nali87]

http://youtu.be/4h0fje33320

It does not matter, if Jodi was traumatized by murdering Travis, or if she cannot recall portions of how she murdered him. Even her own defense expert said most people convicted of such crimes show signs of both.

The only thing that matters is she planned it, and she did it. The state has proved both.

The only way I see the jury believing the killing left her traumatized somehow working in her benefit is during the penalty phase for the sentence -LWOP or death.

 

[GoAskAllie]

There's an interview with his roommate or his friends with police about the engagement ring for Deanna that went missing. They can't say it was an engagement ring but "a ring" because it would be prejudicial. He never actually gave it to her.

Another thing that bothered me her way of getting into the house. I remember that in evidence there is a check she made to him for the BMW she jacked up and it was on top of his desk. In a phone call to Det. Flores, she specifically asked about the check and wanted to know if he had cashed it. I wonder if that's what let his guard down, she was paying him back (odd thing, 100 dollars for two months of payments) and he could use extra money for the trip. Even though the date is dated in May, it was never cashed. If he was supposedly broke (according to the defense), why wouldn't he cash that thing right away?

Again, just throwing some things out there that I find odd. I apologize if this has been brought up before.

If there had been a commitment ring, then I agree, it would have been one intended for Deanna given their lengthy relationship. Someone in an earlier thread said the ring was intended for a woman named Linda, whom I had never heard of. The poster "RaisinCharlie" said HLN was discussing the "engagement ring" yet the picture they showed to accompany the story was the CTR ring. Hence my post with the hypothetical about this particular ring.

 

[Sleuth5]

Yeah, after cutting a man's throat, stabbing him 29 times, and shooting him in the head, they went into her pocketbook looking for her ID and let her off with a stiff warning to not tell anyone because they knew her name and where she lived. They followed that up with "she must be that b___ from CA". Completely laughable.

Don't forget the Japanese flutes and the whooshing sounds as the ninja vanished through the windows. Oh, and the fact that they said it all in Japanese, and although Einstein did not speak the language, she memorized their threats to her, managed to type them into Google translator, and arrived at the threat to that "Girl from California!"

All it was missing was subtitles.

 

[Clue Finder 55]

Quote:
Originally Posted by InALandFarFarAway View Post
I actually just posted about those things! lol

I do think there are a couple of jurors toying with the DT because they're bored or they want to break the monotony by watching JW appear relieved only to watch the deer-in-the-headlights eyes immediately reappear.

I believe an analytical thinker would understand Dr. D's theory without reducing it to that level. Not to say it was a stupid question. It wasn't. Those who understand the points she made regarding trauma and PTSD understood it clinically and could either accept it or not. They needed more information to understand and those questions did not bother me.

The bear/tiger question indicated to me that the person either didn't understand the distinctions between the two or did understand it but was not in full agreement with how it was applied to Jodi. It made me think that person viewed Jodi as being disturbed in a way that would not make her criminally responsible and anything outside of that was splitting hairs.

But again, that's how *I* reacted to the question.

BBM - I suspect one is more likely to survive a bear attack over a tiger attack (i.e. the Champawatat tigress killed over 200 people before being driven out of Nepal). Tigers mean to kill. Bears are more inclined to react in protection.

__________________
Racing Doesn't Lie

Maybe the bear or lion thing is a bear will usually stop it's attack when it feels the attack has rendered it's threat immobile most often without causing death.
A tiger will usually attack with the intent of causing death.

The chances of any juror that is slightly leaning for the defense is unlikely but even if so, when the jury deliberates they will be going over everything and will convince a hold out juror as to how they are wrong in not wanting to convict her of premeditation and the DP.

There is so much evidence that the murder was pre planned and it really doesn't matter much if Jodi has PDST or not because she admitted she murdered Travis.
So the only thing to debate is weather she planned the killing or not and with all the evidence supporting the murder was pre planned should bring a guilty verdict.
The jury by now knows just like the rest of us that any defense Jodi had was totally based on lies that she continued to spew to DR S and Laviolette, and her defense team.
She has and will say any lies to try and save her skin and has enjoyed killing Travis again while in court.
There is always a chance the jury could be dead locked but in this case that is highly unlikely.
Jurors will be instructed before deliberations that beyond a reasonable doubt means just that, reasonable (not no doubt but reasonable doubt). This means a murder does not have to be committed in front of the judge and jury to find the defendant guilty.
An example of this would be if stabbed with an ice pick the jury would find it reasonable that a screw driver may have been used.
To say the stab wounds from the ice pick were caused by axe would be unreasonable.
It does not say no doubt but unreasonable doubt.

Now if anyone can't understand the bear tiger thing a tiger has stripes a bear doesn't.

 

[PrincessSezMe]

Sorry if this has already been posted. So well made and just wanted to share. Very eerie and brilliant.

Jodi Arias Trial: Justice for Travis - YouTube

That gave me goosebumps. Brilliantly put together. Thank you!!

 

[GoAskAllie]

Thank you for the info on the CTR ring, definitely not the one HLN showed. Who knows is right

As to questions, most of the time (90%) I don't believe Travis knew Jodi was coming that night. Most of the time I also think it was Jodi on his computer at 4 am that morning trying to make it look like it was Travis who was on the computer, patiently waiting for her. I tend to think Travis woke up to find Jodi either in his bed or curled up like a cat in the love seat thing by his bed. I can explain why I think those things, but can't explain why I am not 100% convinced of them.

I'm confused! I thought your original post indicated that HLN was talking about an engagement ring yet showing a picture of Travis pointing to the CTR ring. If that isn't the case, then please disregard my theory involving the CTR ring and why Travis may have agreed to see Jodi. He simply could have taken it off to clean the floors. Jodi claimed he was doing that during her visit and the roommates also reported that furniture on the main level had been moved, yet not put back in place. I hate to say anything negative about these roommates, but if had been me, I would have thought it STRANGE that Travis had gone to Cancun without his cell phone, laptop, watch and ring (especially one that he always wore). How many red flags do you need?????

 

[InALandFarFarAway]

Remember though - Detective Flores confirmed that the memory card from the camera had been wiped clean. The images were recovered and enhanced by the crime lab. Looking back at the interrogation video, I think she was genuinely shocked when Det. Flores told her he had photos of her there...on that day. She really thought she had deleted all the photos so I'm not sure she was all that worried about the camera.

I'm always going to think she tossed it in by accident. I think she wanted the camera not because it may have held incriminating evidence but because it would have been another token for her. I think she was shocked it was in the washer.

But I respect all opposing opinions.

 

[Sleuth5]

I wonder why JA did not flee after the murder? I know that she did not think that she would be caught but she had about 6 weeks after the murder until her arrest to flee.

She knew there was no escape from the ninja.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Please add bangs and faux glasses to the above Ninja.

Thank. you.




:floorlaugh:

 

[Sleuth5]

Was on youtube listening to wilmott tear viciously into demarte. The day she wore the white suit, but demarte held her own. tH criticising demarte because she's to young. Well where does one start may I ask.
I've never seen wilmott that hostile with anyone! Venom was spitting from her lips. It's almost like she's taken her friendship with Jodie over the top? Am I imagining this or is it REALY that ovious. Lol maybe my meds are making me see/ hear things lol? Am I loca?

Not loca. She was definitely desperate to undo the damage she knew Dr. D had done to both of the defense's expert witnesses. However, I don't think there's any love lost between her and the defendant. She is just doing her job, in my view.

:cow:

 

[luvmygarden]

Trying to catch up on last night's posts. Only have way through but wanted to say something about the "weird" jury questions that many find disturbing and or pro defense. I'm not Einstein (hehe) but I've been around, believe me. I've learned to read between the lines more than hear the words that are spoken. The questions we're talking about in my mind were more about validating in the specific juror's mind what they were thinking about JA. Like the camera washing to hide evidence. The question sounded more to me like the juror wanted to hear someone like Dr. D say what they were thinking. We will never know if JA washed it on purpose or not. The juror who asked the tiger/bear thing...same thing. Juror wanted someone like Dr. D to validate what they were thinking but just used a strange way to ask it. I think the jurors like Dr. D and her calm no nonsense way of explaining things.

What is the PTSD scenario that defense wants to blame this on?
The day of the murder or the way JA claimed she was treated by Travis or Other boyfriends or parents. I am confused on what they want to pin the PTSD on.
If it is parents or boyfriends including Travis is that where the bear or tiger come in? I guess I haven't picked up on what the defense is aiming at.

 

[Boodles]

BBM
My understanding is that the card contained images that Travis had taken with his new camera before JA ever got there. Only the images from JA's visit had been deleted. That's partly how they knew that the images had been deleted one at a time, a multi-step process to delete each one. It's much faster to erase the whole disk, even to reformat it.

ETA: If this is incorrect, I 'd like to review testimony that said that the whole SD card had been erased. I'm finding it difficult to keep track of the actual testimony on some points and I want my own notes to be accurate. Thanks in advance.

Molly, you're correct. She only deleted the pictures from June 4th and left the rest.

 

[GoAskAllie]

i thought that CTR ring and his watch were found in the kitchen??? no? that's not the ring we're talking about, is it?
i thought i remembered a roommate saying they saw the ring and watch in the kitchen and thought it was odd because he always wore them.

Some confusion over "rings" -- don't want to make it worse. You're correct. The CTR ring was found on the counter along with his watch. Can you say red flag?

 

[Karraster]

Now that I've read several different understandings of the tiger/bear juror question, it bothers me much less. Even Samuels said "Perhaps I should have re-administered that test." If a juror is having any trouble understanding that, I'm sure other jurors will get him squared away.

I have to keep reminding myself that jurors haven't had a discussion about the case yet. Can you imagine the day of deliberations? Bet they are busting to talk!:woohoo: