Weekend Discussion Thread 04/27-30/2012

[snoofer]

I would put MR in the category of antisocial personality disorder. Given that the day after he participated in the violent abduction, sexual assault and murder of a young girl he was bed hopping with yet more women, he seems to completely lack empathy and an appreciation for the horror that he visit on others.

I don't believe that people are born sociopathic, or with antisocial personality disorder. I think it comes from an absence of bonding in the formative years (ages 0 - 6). I looked into this theory more extensively in the Casey Anthony case. I noticed a kind of vacancy in the child's eyes and a disconnect between the mother and infant/toddler. I think the same thing also happened with Scott Peterson. I think that these children were born normal and that, as young infants and toddlers, they did what normal children do to interact with their mothers (the centre of a child's universe). I think the mothers did not respond normally to the children. For example, a child cries when unhappy and smiles when happy. If that child's crying or smiling is continuously ignored, the child learns that his/her feelings to not elicit a normal, compassionate response; their feelings do not matter ... the child learns to suppress those emotions as a means to protect the self because there is no outward relief for them. That's a really short synopsis of what I think, but the bottom line is that I think children are born normally and that severe phychological neglect in the formative years results in those children suppressing normal emotional reactions until they more or less no longer exist.

MR did not have a normal reaction to the suffering he caused a young child, her family, or her friends. After the crimes, his only objective was to get high, hook up and cover his tracks. I think his interest in the case was related to two things: making sure that police weren't on his tail, and curiously observing emotional pain in others.

One question I have about MR is whether he also adapted his habits to reflect others. That is, if he dated a vegetarian, was he suddenly a vegetarian? If he dated a religious person, was he suddenly religious?

Check one (X)

___ good man

___ average man

___ vile, nasty little man


MOO

 

[crazyladi]

Check one (X)

___ good man

___ average man

_xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx__ vile, nasty little man


MOO

How is that?? LOL

 

[Bravo]

Yes quite the stretch for Jurors to believe any child snatched off the street could be so calm,relaxed and free of fear they could be mistaken for a child merely being babysat. Please.......(eye roll)

 

[JayFriend]

Tomorrow we will find out. I've wondered if Derstine would call TLM as a witness. Now wouldn't that be interesting?!

Is that even possible? Can she be a witness for the Crown and then a witness for the Defence as well?

 

[LoyalSleuth]

Is that even possible? Can she be a witness for the Crown and then a witness for the Defence as well?

IMO, she can not.

 

[snoofer]

IF it were true TLM and MTR were babysitting. And IF it were true that MTR got rid of his carseat before the 8th. I want to hear from MTR where exactly TS sat in his broke down dirty car. No seatbelt? What on the floor crossed legged??? For hours on end? In her winter coat and boots? At 28 would he have not thought that would be a problem for a parent of an 8 year old? To not have child belted in and in a seat while travelling out of town? WOW. MOO

 

[Tahorn]

Junkie mind or not, what happened has to make sense to the jury or it will not be considered credible. MR, the junkie, was not so stoned that he couldn't pre-arrange deposits into his account, pick up cash that was problably used to pick up a murder weapon in a location where he would not be easily recognized, go to a secluded location close to where he had previously worked, turn off his cell phone at crucial times, or lie to police ... so it would be hard to believe that he was so stoned he didn't know something was amiss in taking someone else's child off the street and leaving her murdered under a rock pile.

TLM = junkie
MR = addict

I am not sure that the hammer and gargbage bags were purchased with the intent of killing VS. TLM house looked liked someone was trying to fix it up ... Besides even the LE asked TLM why they put VS in garbage bags if they planned to leave VS there ... And MR had a hammer in the trunk why another one

 

[Macright]

Yes quite the stretch for Jurors to believe any child snatched off the street could be so calm,relaxed and free of fear they could be mistaken for a child merely being babysat. Please.......(eye roll)

not so much of a stretch when you look at that video of TLM & TS walking towards the car...she didn't seem full of fear to me..just walking off with someone who she knew and had told her she was sent to babysit her for awhile... it's strange to think that only a few hours before TM had been in that very same parking lot as she visited with her grandfather..also just wondering if a bottom seat is taken out of a car would the seat belts still be attached somehow...if so they could have been used even though the child had to sit on a blanket..also what would be under the bottom of a seat..would there be any padding or would it be a hard surface...just wondering..JMO

 

[Bravo]

I'm sure many a child is cooperative during the lure. Once they realize they have been taken and have that funny tummy feeling they have been warned about I'm confident in saying sheer terror must set in. I'm sure Tori realized it once she was in that vehicle. If MTR was so innocent why dump the back seat? Heck why not produce it? Let LE test away. The one thing that could exonerate him he never fessed up as to where it was. Funny.

 

[Bravo]

TLM = junkie
MR = addict

I am not sure that the hammer and gargbage bags were purchased with the intent of killing VS. TLM house looked liked someone was trying to fix it up ... Besides even the LE asked TLM why they put VS in garbage bags if they planned to leave VS there ... And MR had a hammer in the trunk why another one

Yet hours later Tori ended up in garbage bags and murdered with a hammer. Many Murderers bag their Victims. Not unheard of. Perhaps the hammer in the car was taken from Rafferty's Mothers home. I wouldn't want any trace with the weapon.

 

[otto]

TLM = junkie
MR = addict

I am not sure that the hammer and gargbage bags were purchased with the intent of killing VS. TLM house looked liked someone was trying to fix it up ... Besides even the LE asked TLM why they put VS in garbage bags if they planned to leave VS there ... And MR had a hammer in the trunk why another one

He worked construction ... he had a hammer. If the hammer that was purchased at the hardware store was not explicitly purchased for the murder, where is it?

I think that MR's mothers' house looked like it needed some fixing up too ... but MR already had all the tools from his construction jobs to use for that purpose.

 

[otto]

not so much of a stretch when you look at that video of TLM & TS walking towards the car...she didn't seem full of fear to me..just walking off with someone who she knew and had told her she was sent to babysit her for awhile... it's strange to think that only a few hours before TM had been in that very same parking lot as she visited with her grandfather..also just wondering if a bottom seat is taken out of a car would the seat belts still be attached somehow...if so they could have been used even though the child had to sit on a blanket..also what would be under the bottom of a seat..would there be any padding or would it be a hard surface...just wondering..JMO

Victoria did not know her kidnappers. She was abducted by two monsters that didn't care what child they got, just as long as it was a female child.

 

[Tahorn]

Yet hours later Tori ended up in garbage bags and murdered with a hammer. Many Murderers bag their Victims. Not unheard of. Perhaps the hammer in the car was taken from Rafferty's Mothers home. I wouldn't want any trace with the weapon.

True, but it is possible.

 

[Macright]

Victoria did not know her kidnappers. She was abducted by two monsters that didn't care what child they got, just as long as it was a female child.

respectfully...I gather you know that for a fact Otto... (that TS did not know her kidnappers) I believe IMO that she did in fact know one a..... that was the one who led her from her school and later decided to murder her...that I know as fact..the actual murderer because she (TLM) testified to that action in court...JMO but anything else is just my opinion and I would never state anything as fact without further knowledge..just my own opinion.... just saying.........

 

[Macright]

He worked construction ... he had a hammer. If the hammer that was purchased at the hardware store was not explicitly purchased for the murder, where is it?

I think that MR's mothers' house looked like it needed some fixing up too ... but MR already had all the tools from his construction jobs to use for that purpose.

sorry off topic I know but all this talk about hammers now has that song.."If I had a hammer" going through my mind....

 

[Bravo]

True, but it is possible.

Many things are possible. How likely are they to be possible? It is not any one thing in this case that hangs Rafferty in my opinion. It's the sum of it all. What is most likely and reasonable based on the evidence presented? Guilty of the charges. MOO

 

[Bravo]

sorry off topic I know but all this talk about hammers now has that song.."If I had a hammer" going through my mind....

LOL Ya gotta find humor as we banter thru these horrible cases.

 

[lightlady]

Thanks to all of you that have posted tweets and walked the path of this trial together so far. It is the first trial I have followed to this detail, and I have found the discussion to be helpful. As Antiquegirl said, some are waiting to make any judgement until the defense has their say, and others are willing to call it as they see it based on the info to date. Salem has helped us to see this is not an Innocent until Proven Guilty forum.
I look forward to tomorrow to see if there is some explanation that we all have been missing, although I have to say that I cannot in my wildest imagination come up with one that would satisfy me. We will see.
Thanks again to all of you for chiming in and voicing your opinions in polite ways.

 

[Bravo]

We all have the right to an opinion and the right to reserve it as well based on the Defense presented. Some of us choose to voice our opinion based on what seems to be reasonable at this point. We are a message board and it's what we do. Not Jurors. They are the only one's required at this point to keep their minds open.

 

[swedie]

TM and VS have different last names too ... So do many mothers and children especially after divorces ... Means nothing

Well one could only assume MR has a different father. He has brothers who I believe are older, who share their mother's last name <modsnip>. Then there's M. Rafferty. <modsnip>.

BTW Shasta, great post and I agree also 100%. Many of the thinks you spoke of I've also thought for some time. MR just didn't turn evil overnight; he's been growing horns for a long time. MOO