Weekend Discussion Thread 3/24-26/2012

[matou]

London Free Press ‏ @RaffertyLFP
Gowdey said first degree murder can be deliberate or as the result of a kidnapping or sexual assault.

 

[matou]

London Free Press ‏ @RaffertyLFP
Crown said a person is guilty of first degree even if they only helped with the killing -equally guilty of murder with actual killer

 

[matou]

London Free Press ‏ @RaffertyLFP
"Her credibility will be an issue in this case" admits Gowdey. Look to see if her evidence is confirmed by others says Gowdey

 

[KMouse]

From crazyladi's list:

5) When TLM mentioned that Goris was a "diddler, Pedophile" does it make anyone wonder if he was or not? He has always come across creepy to me. Is it possible that something did happen to TS before all of this? I am not saying that he did I am just wondering what other peoples thoughts are

I wonder if the word 'diddler' came from Rafferty directly or TLM? I thought this was interesting in that she said this but this is what she said Rafferty told her. I find it to like psychological projection on his part, to project onto Goris what he feels. JMO

"diddler" is a jail house term used for pedophiles. "skinner" is for a rapist. That's your jail house terminology lesson for the day.
It is quite possible that Rafferty was projecting his own issues onto somebody else.

During TLM's testimony she stated that MR said something to Tori to the effect of "has anybody done this before?" which I thought was really odd and creepy at the same time. I didn't know what to make of it. If TLM walked away from the car as she said how did she hear these things?

 

[Oldsoul2]

Also I want to mention, someone posted that the accessory to a murder gets way less time than the person who actually committed it. With that said, IMO the defense is not necessarily trying to get him off completely. I think they have already told MR that he will do time but how much is the question. If they can prove, solely, that he did not rape this child, since the actual act of the murder was already confessed to by TLM. That's probably why they are not claiming he wasn't there, they know the prosecution has evidence to support he was but the big question is, what's the evidence to support Tori being raped by MR. IMO he did it but are we going to have a shocker, someone elses DNA or none at all. My question is, does anyone know how long the body has to decompose before that evidence is impossible to trace? Remember the casey anthony case, the body was found in pieces of bones, the cause of death was impossible to determine based on the remains. IMO if I have to watch one more of these *** get away with it because of how long it takes to find the body I'll scream

 

[KMouse]

<snipped>IMO if I have to watch one more of these *** get away with it because of how long it takes to find the body I'll scream

That's why we need Caylee's Law in Canada. We need to have some kind of charge for disposing of a body, for concealing a body, and for dismembering a body.

 

[Oldsoul2]

"diddler" is a jail house term used for pedophiles. "skinner" is for a rapist. That's your jail house terminology lesson for the day.
It is quite possible that Rafferty was projecting his own issues onto somebody else.

During TLM's testimony she stated that MR said something to Tori to the effect of "has anybody done this before?" which I thought was really odd and creepy at the same time. I didn't know what to make of it. If TLM walked away from the car as she said how did she hear these things?

That's what I just said, it's very strange

 

[Hello_Kitty]

^
9) If there is no evidence of a sexual assault, why would they have included those charges? There case is that Tori was taken for that specific reason, so I feel they must have evidence of this. I believe there would have been evidence inside the garbage bags, if Tori was bleeding vaginally. Does anyone know if forensics would be able to detect if a condom was used in this crime?

Snipped and BBM

If there was blood in the bag (which there most likely was) I wonder if forensics can tell the difference between vaginal blood and just regular blood. If so, that means they can prove she was sexually assaulted?

 

[matou]

My opinion is that a pedophile would not necessary chose a child that had been previously abused. JMO

Also, re. Rafferty said he wanted a younger girl, so he did not necessarily want Tori. JMO

 

[JayFriend]

5) When TLM mentioned that Goris was a "diddler, Pedophile" does it make anyone wonder if he was or not? He has always come across creepy to me. Is it possible that something did happen to TS before all of this? I am not saying that he did I am just wondering what other peoples thoughts are.

Obviously I've snipped all but this part of your post, but you make a lot of valid points.

This one really jumped out at me because I recall a tweet from many days ago where TLM said something to the effect when Tori was being raped she pleaded with the perpetrator to do it up the bum instead, or something to that effect. (Sorry mods, I'm not an asterkiser, so please contact me before booting me.) I just can't get that out of my head and it makes me wonder if she had been previously sexually abused by someone.

 

[swedie]

Snipped and BBM

If there was blood in the bag (which there most likely was) I wonder if forensics can tell the difference between vaginal blood and just regular blood. If so, that means they can prove she was sexually assaulted?

I am sure forensics would be able to tell where the blood was coming from. There would be blood evidence on her genitalia. If you recall back to when Det. Smyth discovered her remains, he mentioned his could smell decomposing body. This tell me that there was more than just skeletal remains of Tori. JMO

 

[brighidin]

Respectfully, a southwestern Ontario mental health facility has a forensic ward, where many individuals with diagnosis: psychopath, sociopath, personality disorder, bipolar disorder, etc., etc. are hospitalized because of their crimes. Some may say, these individuals just had very good lawyers, but that depends on who you are talking to. This is why they are assessed for their fitness to stand trial. If they don't meet that criteria, they are hospitalized. IMO

Respectfully, here is Section 16 of the Criminal code, which deals with the NCR designation (which replaced what people would have known as insanity defense, I guess).

IMO, this was not a consideration for TLM and has no bearing on this case. Psychopathy and sociopathy don't as far as I can tell, fall under this designation. Even if she were designated as one (by someone other than us on a crime website lol) it wouldn't come into play.

Also, from reading the Section, it is clear that not everyone is assessed for a mental disorder: that burden is on the accused. IMO.
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-46/page-5.html

 

[matou]

I think that tweet was supposed to say NOT in the bum. I think he was in the process of doing things or he was telling Tori what he was going to do. We don`t know the full context of what was stated in court or the full statement given by TLM about this. I think the tweeters were rushing through and self-editing because of the nature of the shocking material that they were reporting. JMO

 

[BorgQueen]

Snipped and BBM

If there was blood in the bag (which there most likely was) I wonder if forensics can tell the difference between vaginal blood and just regular blood. If so, that means they can prove she was sexually assaulted?

I am not sure if what part of the body blood came from can be determined, but it is possible that there were other indications of sexual assault (broken pelvic bone, for example). They must have some sort of evidence to back up the 'sexual assault' charge. Unfortunately, it may or may not be DNA evidence.
:moo:

 

[swedie]

Obviously I've snipped all but this part of your post, but you make a lot of valid points.

This one really jumped out at me because I recall a tweet from many days ago where TLM said something to the effect when Tori was being raped she pleaded with the perpetrator to do it up the bum instead, or something to that effect. (Sorry mods, I'm not an asterkiser, so please contact me before booting me.) I just can't get that out of my head and it makes me wonder if she had been previously sexually abused by someone.

That comment also struck me hard :'( , that poor baby. I wonder if Tori was just referring to her private parts as her bum. Being only eight, she wouldn't label the different areas, in general I think an eight year old would call it just that. It could be also TM may have talked to her about not letting anyone touch her down there and she may have referred to it as her bum. JMO. So heartbreaking.

 

[matou]

DNA evidence &#8211; linked to both Tori and Mr. Rafferty &#8211; will be central to the prosecution&#8217;s case, the jury heard, as will be Mr. Rafferty&#8217;s cellphone records that evening.
&#8220;Please listen to the DNA evidence, it will tell you a lot,&#8221; Mr. Gowdey said.

He had a missing poster of Tori in his house....this freaks me out, a memento? JMO

* A search of Mr. Rafferty&#8217;s home turned up a &#8220;missing&#8221; poster of Tori.

-After police questioned him, Mr. Rafferty tried to get rid of his car, Mr. Gowdey said, and removed its back seat, which has never been recovered. He also tried to switch cellphones.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ars/article2358818/singlepage/#articlecontent

 

[Hello_Kitty]

Obviously I've snipped all but this part of your post, but you make a lot of valid points.

This one really jumped out at me because I recall a tweet from many days ago where TLM said something to the effect when Tori was being raped she pleaded with the perpetrator to do it up the bum instead, or something to that effect. (Sorry mods, I'm not an asterkiser, so please contact me before booting me.) I just can't get that out of my head and it makes me wonder if she had been previously sexually abused by someone.

I don't think that TS pleaded for that, I think TLM said that MR asked TS if someone had done it like that before. That part of her testimony wasn't really clear as she was snivelling and sniffling and jumping from one thing to the other.

p.s I also doubt Goris would have interfered with her sexually and tbh, I think that TM wouldn't have stood for it, despite all her faults, I think she would be a mother tiger with her kids. MOO

 

[Jezbel]

Obviously I've snipped all but this part of your post, but you make a lot of valid points.

This one really jumped out at me because I recall a tweet from many days ago where TLM said something to the effect when Tori was being raped she pleaded with the perpetrator to do it up the bum instead, or something to that effect. (Sorry mods, I'm not an asterkiser, so please contact me before booting me.) I just can't get that out of my head and it makes me wonder if she had been previously sexually abused by someone.

I think TLM said she heard Tori say 'no please not up the bum' I could be wrong but that's what it really sounded like to me when sitting listening to her testimony that day. That's when TLM said Rafferty responded with 'why has someone done this to you before'

 

[Sillybilly]

From crazyladi's list:

5) When TLM mentioned that Goris was a "diddler, Pedophile" does it make anyone wonder if he was or not? He has always come across creepy to me. Is it possible that something did happen to TS before all of this? I am not saying that he did I am just wondering what other peoples thoughts are

I wonder if the word 'diddler' came from Rafferty directly or TLM? I thought this was interesting in that she said this but this is what she said Rafferty told her. I find it to like psychological projection on his part, to project onto Goris what he feels. JMO

I believe i still have a copy of the various newspaper clippings on my old hard drive (can't access right now). Basically, he was acquitted because the judge said (paraphrased here) to the effect that the child had poor recollection of specific dates, and he had to take into consideration that the accused had denied the allegations. :banghead: :furious: :notgood:

 

[snoofer]

"diddler" is a jail house term used for pedophiles. "skinner" is for a rapist. That's your jail house terminology lesson for the day.
It is quite possible that Rafferty was projecting his own issues onto somebody else.

During TLM's testimony she stated that MR said something to Tori to the effect of "has anybody done this before?" which I thought was really odd and creepy at the same time. I didn't know what to make of it. If TLM walked away from the car as she said how did she hear these things?

IMO it could be possible that TLM made comments about Tori's family during her testimoney just as a scorched earth policy that she seems to operate under...burn as many people as she can if she is going down. I would not put credence in alot of what she says.