Weekend Discussion Thread 3/24-26/2012

[daisy.faithfull]

If he's anything like the "wimpy coward" that many here claim him to be, it doesn't surprise me that he tried to hide his involvement. TLM could have threatened him and his family if he said anything, it's been proven in court through her previous writings that she had the means to find the names and addresses of witness that were responsible for putting her in juvie. Who's to say she would do that again and actually follow through, after all, she had already bashed in the skull of an 8yr old, it wouldn't be much harder for her to make a few calls and have one of her "Crips" buddies make a home visit to MR's mom.

I agree it was stupid of him to not go to the police if it is in fact true that he helped with the clean up, but no one can say what they'd do for sure unless you have been put in those shoes, I don't care who you are or what you say. If you felt your family was threatened and wasn't the type to to trust the police, you'd keep your mouth shut too.

MOO

I get what you're saying. It just makes whatever the Crown has of MTR visiting TLM more important. The audio/video of those visits could give us a sense if she was threatening him or not.

 

[Kamille]

If he's anything like the "wimpy coward" that many here claim him to be, it doesn't surprise me that he tried to hide his involvement. TLM could have threatened him and his family if he said anything, it's been proven in court, through her previous writings, that she had the means to find the names and addresses of witness that were responsible for putting her in juvie. Who's to say she wouldn't do that again and actually follow through, after all, she had already bashed in the skull of an 8yr old, it wouldn't be much harder for her to make a few calls and have one of her "Crips" buddies make a home visit to MR's mom.

I agree it was stupid of him to not go to the police, if it is in fact true that he helped with the clean up, but no one can say what they'd do for sure unless you have been put in those shoes, I don't care who you are or what you say. If you felt your family was threatened and wasn't the type to trust the police, you'd keep your mouth shut too.

MOO

The police would have protected him and his family if in fact she had made those threats. This was real life, not a made for TV movie. No excuse.

MOO

 

[maxfactor]

In Canada you only have to serve two years for repeated sexual assaults against young hockey players . Unreal.

Canada’s become a Disneyland for sex predators.

http://www.charlesadler.com/2012/03/james-verdict-a-judicial-win-for-pedophiles.html

 

[dilbert]

This is a very telling part of what she said. In prison she needs to play the game to survive. Testifying would make her a rat in the minds of the other prisoners. I wonder if everything she said that day in January 2012 was to get her out of testifying. :moo:

She's the star witness, the only eye witness to the murder. No matter what she claimed, she would be testifying and the Crown would have told her that over and over. IMO It was a stupid reason to give for changing her story about the hammer, but likely the first one that came to her mind at the time. Notice she's still claiming SHE killed Tori?

 

[Ardy]

Why on earth would he have put Victoria in the backseat of his car? He could have and should have left both of them there and called the police. And then waited out on the road for them to show up. And then told him this crazy story that they are now expecting 12 intelligent people to believe about how he thought TLM was just babysitting and he didn't know that when Victoria first got in his car that it was a kidnapping. Nor did he know at any point in their 3 hour tour until for some unexplained reason, he drove them to a secluded laneway in the middle of nowhere and went for a walk.

He didn't do this because it is not what happened.

MOO

So, you agree that IF he had called the police and waited for them, they wouldn't have believed him anyways?

Under the circumstances, outlined by the defense, the best thing MTR could have done is called the police and waited at the scene, accept being arrested and refused a statement until he attained "quality" legal counsel, and then perhaps give a full and complete written statement to the police in the company of his lawyer.

Even with that............they may not believe him and he would be exactly where he is today.

Perhaps this whole discussion is mute.........and he did as TLM claimed, but I get the uncomfortable feeling there is a lot missing from this trial, and the full truth hasn't been revealed yet.

If the Crown produces conclusive evidence, perhaps this whole theory will be dispatched quickly...........but until then........???

It would also be worthwhile to note that the Crown's opening statements as to what constitutes a finding of guilt..........will likely be quite different from Judge Heeney's charge to the jury before their deliberations.

 

[matou]

If he's anything like the "wimpy coward" that many here claim him to be, it doesn't surprise me that he tried to hide his involvement. TLM could have threatened him and his family if he said anything, it's been proven in court, through her previous writings, that she had the means to find the names and addresses of witness that were responsible for putting her in juvie. Who's to say she wouldn't do that again and actually follow through, after all, she had already bashed in the skull of an 8yr old, it wouldn't be much harder for her to make a few calls and have one of her "Crips" buddies make a home visit to MR's mom.

I agree it was stupid of him to not go to the police, if it is in fact true that he helped with the clean up, but no one can say what they'd do for sure unless you have been put in those shoes, I don't care who you are or what you say. If you felt your family was threatened and wasn't the type to trust the police, you'd keep your mouth shut too.

MOO

Has MR stated he felt his family was threatened? Is it known that he did not trust the police? JMO

 

[daisy.faithfull]

I would like to know if anyone has ever thought to check TLM for FAS. She was asked if she suffered from any health problems/issues by the Crown, during her first day of testimony and her response was scoliosis. One would think if she had been tested and also suffered from FAS she would have mentioned that too. :waitasec: She does fit so many of the symptoms in that article you posted above Matou.

I doubt it could be presented in court, but I wonder what a psych eval of MTR would show?

 

[dilbert]

I get what you're saying. It just makes whatever the Crown has of MTR visiting TLM more important. The audio/video of those visits could give us a sense if she was threatening him or not.

It only takes one threat to scare the **** out of someone. Hypothetically speaking, picture yourself at the crime scene, walking back to the car, girl dead on the ground, TLM in a frenzied rage, possibly covered in blood, claw hammer in her hand. That's horrifying enough. Add in a verbal threat and that's all it would take for me.

MOO

 

[Sparklin]

Respectfully, a southwestern Ontario mental health facility has a forensic ward, where many individuals with diagnosis: psychopath, sociopath, personality disorder, bipolar disorder, etc., etc. are hospitalized because of their crimes. Some may say, these individuals just had very good lawyers, but that depends on who you are talking to. This is why they are assessed for their fitness to stand trial. If they don't meet that criteria, they are hospitalized. IMO

That is very true. My daughter was a nurse on a forensic ward *shudder*. Scary place!

 

[dilbert]

As far as MR's blood mixed with Tori's on the gym bag, maybe he cut his hands on the rocks.

MOO

 

[Kamille]

It only takes one threat to scare the **** out of someone. Hypothetically speaking, picture yourself at the crime scene, walking back to the car, girl dead on the ground, TLM in a frenzied rage, possibly covered in blood, claw hammer in her hand. That's horrifying enough. Add in a verbal threat and that's all it would take for me.

MOO

That's all it would take for you to cover up the murder of an beautiful innocent child?!

 

[flipflop]

I would like to know if anyone has ever thought to check TLM for FAS. She was asked if she suffered from any health problems/issues by the Crown, during her first day of testimony and her response was scoliosis. One would think if she had been tested and also suffered from FAS she would have mentioned that too. :waitasec: She does fit so many of the symptoms in that article you posted above Matou.

FAS Symptoms:

Central Nervous System Handicaps
•Small brain size
•Faulty arrangement of brain cells and tissue
•Mild to severe mental retardation
•Learning disabilities
•Poor memory
•Lack of imagination or curiosity
•Poor language skills
•Poor problem-solving skills
•Short attention span
•Poor coordination
•Irritability in infancy
•Hyperactivity in childhood
•Poor reasoning and judgment skills
•Sleep and sucking disturbances in infancy

Behavioral Problems
•Inability to concentrate
•Social withdrawal
•Subbornness
•Impulsivenss
•Anxiety
•Problems with daily living
•Psychiatric problems
•Criminal behavior
•Chronic unemployment
•Incomplete education
•Inappropriate sexual behavior
•Substance abuse problems
•Poor parenting skills

Yes she does have a few!!!!! JMO

 

[daisy.faithfull]

As far as MR's blood mixed with Tori's on the gym bag, maybe he cut his hands on the rocks.

MOO

What if, hypothetically, they had his sperm mixed with her blood?

 

[Kamille]

So, you agree that IF he had called the police and waited for them, they wouldn't have believed him anyways?

Under the circumstances, outlined by the defense, the best thing MTR could have done is called the police and waited at the scene, accept being arrested and refused a statement until he attained "quality" legal counsel, and then perhaps give a full and complete written statement to the police in the company of his lawyer.

Even with that............they may not believe him and he would be exactly where he is today.

Perhaps this whole discussion is mute.........and he did as TLM claimed, but I get the uncomfortable feeling there is a lot missing from this trial, and the full truth hasn't been revealed yet.

If the Crown produces conclusive evidence, perhaps this whole theory will be dispatched quickly...........but until then........???

It would also be worthwhile to note that the Crown's opening statements as to what constitutes a finding of guilt..........will likely be quite different from Judge Heeney's charge to the jury before their deliberations.

Well let's put it this way. They would have the victim and the killer right there at the scene. With the killer's prints all over the weapon. They would have no physical evidence that MR had done anything because Victoria would be fully clothed right? Because if she was sexually assaulted first by TLM then that was one long walk MR took with a likely screaming child within earshot. But his DNA would not be anywhere on the victim right? They would have a tough time believing that he didn't know for what purpose he was driving these two people to a secluded area but he'd be in a lot better position than he is now.

If that is what the police would have found if he'd called.

MOO

 

[daisy.faithfull]

It only takes one threat to scare the **** out of someone. Hypothetically speaking, picture yourself at the crime scene, walking back to the car, girl dead on the ground, TLM in a frenzied rage, possibly covered in blood, claw hammer in her hand. That's horrifying enough. Add in a verbal threat and that's all it would take for me.

MOO

But in order for them to get out to the crime scene TLM would have had to have been already threatening him to comply which happened before she killed Tori.

 

[matou]

Why did he get rid of his backseat? When did he get rid of it? Right after the 15th of his interview? Why was he trying to get another car? JMO

 

[Delaware]

Thank you for the welcome! Up thread, someone asked if TLM was tested for FAS / FAE. I do not think there is a specific test for that. I believe the diagnosis is confirmed when one's mother admits to having ingested alcohol during her pregnancy. Otherwise, the diagnosis is suspected based on facial features, behavior and intellectual ability. You can read more about it here
http://www.medicinenet.com/fetal_alcohol_syndrome/page2.htm

 

[maxfactor]

If he really didn't know TLM had abducted Tori he would have known by the time they got to Guelph for sure, I'm pretty sure Tori would have been crying, terrified. He could have called 911 when he stopped for perks, he would have been inside the house and TLM and Tori would have been in the car.

 

[dar107]

Does anyone have a link as to what the judges instructions to the jury were? I have been searching but can't come up with anything.

 

[maxfactor]

Why did he get rid of his backseat? When did he get rid of it? Right after the 15th of his interview? Why was he trying to get another car? JMO

And why was he trying to exchange his phone?